Islamic Discussion Thread ٥: Free Tajweed, Absolutely Halaal

[Jolthig]

Does your family know that you're not Muslim anymore?

My sister's also not a Muslim. My dad's inching towards irreligion... We're working on dismantling my mom's religiousity as well. the Parents do still fast though (they start from around the Middle of Sha'ban, ironically) though that has more of a "Health" veneer than a religious one. I'm lucky in that my family is also not religious as well. Heaven knows it would've been even more difficult to handle things if they were.

Interesting. That reminds me that our Canadian friend in our telegram group said that irreligion is big among many Iranians. So much for modern day theocracy.

[North German Realm]

My sister's also not a Muslim. My dad's inching towards irreligion... We're working on dismantling my mom's religiousity as well. the Parents do still fast though (they start from around the Middle of Sha'ban, ironically) though that has more of a "Health" veneer than a religious one. I'm lucky in that my family is also not religious as well. Heaven knows it would've been even more difficult to handle things if they were.

Ah, okay, it's good that your family knows at least. Would it be possible to fake being sick or something to get out of it?

The problem isn't that I have to "Fast", it's that I have to go to university for nearly all through Ramazan all the while the cafeterias are closed and where eating will result in actual punishment by the university officials, and that is not to mention the whole "they'll whip you if they see you drinking and/or eating in the last month of Spring and early summer" thing.

Interesting. That reminds me that our Canadian friend in our telegram group said that irreligion is big among many Iranians. So much for modern day theocracy.

Those two tend to correlate. People living under theocracies know, intimately and personally, what bringing religion into government actually does.

[Zizou]

Ah, okay, it's good that your family knows at least. Would it be possible to fake being sick or something to get out of it?

The problem isn't that I have to "Fast", it's that I have to go to university for nearly all through Ramazan all the while the cafeterias are closed and where eating will result in actual punishment by the university officials, and that is not to mention the whole "they'll whip you if they see you drinking and/or eating in the last month of Spring and early summer" thing.

Interesting. That reminds me that our Canadian friend in our telegram group said that irreligion is big among many Iranians. So much for modern day theocracy.

Those two tend to correlate. People living under theocracies know, intimately and personally, what bringing religion into government actually does.

Further proving why religion belongs nowhere near the government.

[Jolthig]

Ah, okay, it's good that your family knows at least. Would it be possible to fake being sick or something to get out of it?

The problem isn't that I have to "Fast", it's that I have to go to university for nearly all through Ramazan all the while the cafeterias are closed and where eating will result in actual punishment by the university officials, and that is not to mention the whole "they'll whip you if they see you drinking and/or eating in the last month of Spring and early summer" thing.

Interesting. That reminds me that our Canadian friend in our telegram group said that irreligion is big among many Iranians. So much for modern day theocracy.

Those two tend to correlate. People living under theocracies know, intimately and personally, what bringing religion into government actually does.

Crazy. So how you gonna eat? At home before school and then eat right Way as soon as you come home?

[Jolthig]

The problem isn't that I have to "Fast", it's that I have to go to university for nearly all through Ramazan all the while the cafeterias are closed and where eating will result in actual punishment by the university officials, and that is not to mention the whole "they'll whip you if they see you drinking and/or eating in the last month of Spring and early summer" thing.



Those two tend to correlate. People living under theocracies know, intimately and personally, what bringing religion into government actually does.

Further proving why religion belongs nowhere near the government.

Agreed.

Ramadan while mandatory in Islam, was intended to be done in a voluntary way, and not forced.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

The problem isn't that I have to "Fast", it's that I have to go to university for nearly all through Ramazan all the while the cafeterias are closed and where eating will result in actual punishment by the university officials, and that is not to mention the whole "they'll whip you if they see you drinking and/or eating in the last month of Spring and early summer" thing.



Those two tend to correlate. People living under theocracies know, intimately and personally, what bringing religion into government actually does.

Further proving why religion belongs nowhere near the government.

Good thing Al-Islam speaks against this. Also that's not proof of that.

[Zizou]

Further proving why religion belongs nowhere near the government.

Agreed.

Ramadan while mandatory in Islam, was intended to be done in a voluntary way, and not forced.

Right. There's no use in fasting during Ramadan if it's not done voluntarily or sincerely. Otherwise it does nothing besides make a person hungry or thirsty.

[Zizou]

Further proving why religion belongs nowhere near the government.

Good thing Al-Islam speaks against this. Also that's not proof of that.

I mean, there are other reasons that theocracy isn't a good form of government.

[Jolthig]

Agreed.

Ramadan while mandatory in Islam, was intended to be done in a voluntary way, and not forced.

Right. There's no use in fasting during Ramadan if it's not done voluntarily or sincerely. Otherwise it does nothing besides make a person hungry or thirsty.

Yep. There is no other reason other than for worship of Allah. None of these rituals we do have any meaning or rationality other than for the sake of Allah and bettering oneself.

[Jolthig]

Good thing Al-Islam speaks against this. Also that's not proof of that.

I mean, there are other reasons that theocracy isn't a good form of government.

The Muslims being led astray is one of them.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Good thing Al-Islam speaks against this. Also that's not proof of that.

I mean, there are other reasons that theocracy isn't a good form of government.

There's also a reason why Al-Islam speaks against having government rule by kufr instead of ruling by Al-Islam.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I mean, there are other reasons that theocracy isn't a good form of government.

The Muslims being led astray is one of them.

No it's not, that happens in all forms of government.

[Jolthig]

The Muslims being led astray is one of them.

No it's not, that happens in all forms of government.

It can, but it's worse in theocracy because you're forcing religion on people to observe rituals when they should be voluntary. Basically theocracy gives you no rational for why one should observe a ritual in the first place other than "well, our religion says so". This is how it's done by Saudi Arabia and Iran.

[Jolthig]

I mean, there are other reasons that theocracy isn't a good form of government.

There's also a reason why Al-Islam speaks against having government rule by kufr instead of ruling by Al-Islam.

And kufr is still rampant among the middle east. Even among so called Islamic governments for their division and infighting.

[Zizou]

There's also a reason why Al-Islam speaks against having government rule by kufr instead of ruling by Al-Islam.

And kufr is still rampant among the middle east. Even among so called Islamic governments for their division and infighting.

Also, how are we supposed to form a theocracy when even our own sects are so divided they can't agree on a set of rules to govern the country. How do we create a government that can be considered Islamic by both Salafis and Ahmadis?

[Jolthig]

And kufr is still rampant among the middle east. Even among so called Islamic governments for their division and infighting.

Also, how are we supposed to form a theocracy when even our own sects are so divided they can't agree on a set of rules to govern the country. How do we create a government that can be considered Islamic by both Salafis and Ahmadis?

Technically, all muslims should be United under one Imam. But as long as the rampant division is there, any form of hypocrisy makes theocracy void and only for the sake of enforcing rituals with no other rational.

Globalization especially with the internet also poses a problem for theocracy in this era. Because one can still advocate for their atheism on the internet, and speak out against the government. They can also read secular books. Forbidden books by certain governments.

Amin, most likely if somehow you were able to implement a theocracy, it would be eventually corrupted by the so called ulama. As is the case of Saudi Arabia and Iran.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

And kufr is still rampant among the middle east. Even among so called Islamic governments for their division and infighting.

Also, how are we supposed to form a theocracy when even our own sects are so divided they can't agree on a set of rules to govern the country. How do we create a government that can be considered Islamic by both Salafis and Ahmadis?

Ahmadis don't have an Islamic government in the 1st place, and Salafis are too extreme in there implementation of an Islamic government. As long as the Islamic government follows the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah we're ok.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Also, how are we supposed to form a theocracy when even our own sects are so divided they can't agree on a set of rules to govern the country. How do we create a government that can be considered Islamic by both Salafis and Ahmadis?

Technically, all muslims should be United under one Imam. But as long as the rampant division is there, any form of hypocrisy makes theocracy void and only for the sake of enforcing rituals with no other rational.

Globalization especially with the internet also poses a problem for theocracy in this era. Because one can still advocate for their atheism on the internet, and speak out against the government. They can also read secular books. Forbidden books by certain governments.

Amin, most likely if somehow you were able to implement a theocracy, it would be eventually corrupted by the so called ulama. As is the case of Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Corruption is not a reason to be against what Allah SWT commanded. All forms of government have corruption, yet they don't disbna just because of that.

[Kowani]

Also, how are we supposed to form a theocracy when even our own sects are so divided they can't agree on a set of rules to govern the country. How do we create a government that can be considered Islamic by both Salafis and Ahmadis?

Ahmadis don't have an Islamic government in the 1st place, and Salafis are too extreme in there implementation of an Islamic government. As long as the Islamic government follows the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah we're ok.

Yes, the problem is who decides what the Qu’ran actually means.

[Zizou]

Ahmadis don't have an Islamic government in the 1st place, and Salafis are too extreme in there implementation of an Islamic government. As long as the Islamic government follows the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah we're ok.

Yes, the problem is who decides what the Qu’ran actually means.

^ Somewhat this. We can't just say "look at the Qur'an and Sunnah" when the very thing causing the difference of opinion are different interpretations of said Qur'an and Sunnah.

[Jolthig]

Yes, the problem is who decides what the Qu’ran actually means.

^ Somewhat this. We can't just say "look at the Qur'an and Sunnah" when the very thing causing the difference of opinion are different interpretations of said Qur'an and Sunnah.

There's 73 sects in Islam, and throughout the recent centuries, those sects increased.

[Samudera Darussalam]

It was incredible. My favorite bit is when everyone says AAAAMEEEEEEN at once it just feels powerful.

I used to feel annoyed when small children are saying that loudly, especially if they are around you. That high pitch.....
But other than that, I agree with you.

Tomorrow is the 15th of Sha'ban, a Shia holiday celebrating the birth of Mahdi. So, with that in mind, what is you guys' opinion on the Mahdi? I'm genuinely curious about the opinions of the different sects on the idea of aMahdi (not necessarily the same individual the twelvers consider their 12th Imam)

As far as I know (at least this is what is taught in my school, that self-identifies as Sunni), the Mahdi seems to be this rightly-guided Muslim savior kind of man who leads the group of believers against Dajjal and their companions some time before the endtime. I believe that they interpret is as the Mahdi rise in response to the havoc Dajjal caused upon earth, though I need to read more on this.
And yes, what Amenria said.

Now that I think about it, Ramadan is in 15 days!

I have yet to do anything to prepare :''v

Right. There's no use in fasting during Ramadan if it's not done voluntarily or sincerely. Otherwise it does nothing besides make a person hungry or thirsty.

Agreed. The niat, intention, that's what makes it accepted as a shawm.

^ Somewhat this. We can't just say "look at the Qur'an and Sunnah" when the very thing causing the difference of opinion are different interpretations of said Qur'an and Sunnah.

Agreed, again. Wallahualam bi shawab.

[Jolthig]

Alhamdulilah it's nice to walk to the mosque and back to my sisters house when its not too far away. Especially since the weather is nicer here now.

As a man, I must answer the call of nature for congregational prayers.

[Jolthig]

As the Christians suffer today, let us also remember the Muslims suffering from Saudi Arabian bombings of Yemen.

But also let's remember our Ahmadi brothers and sisters being persecuted in so called "Islamic" states alongside other minorities.

NGR and his family especially should be prayed for that their hardships may be alleviated and that they may receive the true teachings of Islam rather than the poor example of the iranian government. Inshallah

[Samudera Darussalam]

As the Christians suffer today, let us also remember the Muslims suffering from Saudi Arabian bombings of Yemen.

But also let's remember our Ahmadi brothers and sisters being persecuted in so called "Islamic" states alongside other minorities.

NGR and his family especially should be prayed for that their hardships may be alleviated and that they may receive the true teachings of Islam rather than the poor example of the iranian government. Inshallah

Inshallah.
It's a hard time for humanity, be they Muslims, Christians, or the others.