Alt-Right or Israel?

[Grimmsland]

Speaking as a Lefty Jew, being pro-Zionism isn't a good indicator that you're not an antisemite. Eli Valley is an excellent commentator on this phenomenon, take a look.

That's great. How can I go about getting this to a family member without them knowing it was me? I'm probably the only one who has ever stood up to them about it since they reside in a self contained bubble. "Take it to them yourself!" .. yeah.. last time there was almost a physical confrontation and I can't beat a barn-wide mechanic.

[The Emerald Legion]

Speaking as a Lefty Jew, being pro-Zionism isn't a good indicator that you're not an antisemite. Eli Valley is an excellent commentator on this phenomenon, take a look.

That's great. How can I go about getting this to a family member without them knowing it was me? I'm probably the only one who has ever stood up to them about it since they reside in a self contained bubble. "Take it to them yourself!" .. yeah.. last time there was almost a physical confrontation and I can't beat a barn-wide mechanic.

You can. You just need a gun.

[Grimmsland]

That's great. How can I go about getting this to a family member without them knowing it was me? I'm probably the only one who has ever stood up to them about it since they reside in a self contained bubble. "Take it to them yourself!" .. yeah.. last time there was almost a physical confrontation and I can't beat a barn-wide mechanic.

You can. You just need a gun.

True... but I'm not going over there armed, knowing there might be a confrontation (from prior experience). That would be pre-meditated. Also.. I don't even have one.. and I don't want to shoot any of them ... I just want their noggin' jarred.

[Seangoli]

Care to elaborate on either of those?

1 - By OP's logic Ihlan Omar is a white supremacist b/c she received support from David Duke. And contrary to popular opinion, Trump has spoken against the neo-Nazis.

2 - What part of the Nazi platform aligns with the right?

Anti-Immigrationism peppered with staunch traditionialism and generally economic conservatism or liberalism isn't exactlyna hallmark of leftist politics.

I know its edgy and cool to say the left have more in common with Nazis, but the actual reality is that Fascism and Naziism are rightist, more conservative-aligned political movements by definition, and these movements oppose leftist philosophies and politics almost entirely.

[Seangoli]

Wrong.

Because fascism stands for a certain number of political systems. Italian or Austrofacism are good example. The majority of the Alt-righters isn't fascist, many are more closer if not identical to White Nationalists in their views. And lets not get started about the other political groups like Alt-Lite etc.

As far as modern western politics are concerned, the Alt-Right is pretty much limited to USA, Canada and maybe some other english speaking countries. In continental europe it is unknown and never gained a foothold.

Ah, they're not fascists, they're """"white nationalists"""". Big distinction there, apparently.

Fascists are moreso extreme nationalists than they are specifically White Nationalists. While this often takes on the form of race based nationalism, it isn't always necessarily the case. Mussolini was pretty damn uninterested in Race based nationalism for the most part.

While White Nationalism is more or less Fascist in nature, not all Fascists are White Nationalists (or even Race Nationalists, as there are plenty of Non-White Race Nationalists out there).

[Internationalist Bastard]

Honestly the current Israeli government is an alt right dream
Don’t they constantly use it as an example?

[Seangoli]

None of the tiki torch people are good people.

They also weren't driving a Dodge Challenger either. They were doing nothing wrong by simply being there, the only thing making it any different from when Antifa manages to have had enough coffee with soymilk to take to the streets chanting their disapproval with the incumbent is one guy and a car. Not necessarily even that, Antifa have been known to get violent in the past.

Except that the Tiki torch brigade veered off of their pre-approved marching path that they proposed to the city specifically veering into counterprotesters to start a conflict.

Among many other things.

[The Emerald Legion]

1 - By OP's logic Ihlan Omar is a white supremacist b/c she received support from David Duke. And contrary to popular opinion, Trump has spoken against the neo-Nazis.

2 - What part of the Nazi platform aligns with the right?

Anti-Immigrationism peppered with staunch traditionialism and generally economic conservatism or liberalism isn't exactlyna hallmark of leftist politics.

I know its edgy and cool to say the left have more in common with Nazis, but the actual reality is that Fascism and Naziism are rightist, more conservative-aligned political movements by definition, and these movements oppose leftist philosophies and politics almost entirely.

While the Nazis typically favored privatization, they were far from economically conservative. They also were greatly in favor of immigration as long as it was the right kind of people immigrating. So keen in fact that they were willing to force people at gunpoint to be part of their country.

Furthermore, they also favored more or less literally destroying the traditions of the day in order to institute their own.

So basically, everything you just said was wrong.

[Grimmsland]

Ah, they're not fascists, they're """"white nationalists"""". Big distinction there, apparently.

Fascists are moreso extreme nationalists than they are specifically White Nationalists. While this often takes on the form of race based nationalism, it isn't always necessarily the case. Mussolini was pretty damn uninterested in Race based nationalism for the most part.

While White Nationalism is more or less Fascist in nature, not all Fascists are White Nationalists (or even Race Nationalists, as there are plenty of Non-White Race Nationalists out there).

Why would race even come onto his radar though? Was there a sizable non-Italian (or "non-European", or "non-white") population to consider?

[Internationalist Bastard]

Fascists are moreso extreme nationalists than they are specifically White Nationalists. While this often takes on the form of race based nationalism, it isn't always necessarily the case. Mussolini was pretty damn uninterested in Race based nationalism for the most part.

While White Nationalism is more or less Fascist in nature, not all Fascists are White Nationalists (or even Race Nationalists, as there are plenty of Non-White Race Nationalists out there).

Why would race even come onto his radar though? Was there a sizable non-Italian (or "non-European", or "non-white") population to consider?

He can be quoted as defending Jewish people in the early days

[Grimmsland]

Honestly the current Israeli government is an alt right dream
Don’t they constantly use it as an example?

Some do honestly and others do in a way to show double-standards of those who are against them but support Israel being a Jewish State. Something like that.

[Grimmsland]

Why would race even come onto his radar though? Was there a sizable non-Italian (or "non-European", or "non-white") population to consider?

He can be quoted as defending Jewish people in the early days

I see. Not sure that qualifies. lol.

[Shanhwa]

This OP.



Anyways, no. Trump makes some stupid choices, yes, like all humans do. However I find it highly unlikely he’d cut support for a major regional ally, especially because they would then simply turn to Russia. Besides that, the likeliness of some “alt-right” NatSoc party gaining any sort of legitimate backbone or widespread support is so hilariously low it’s essentially impossible.

This discussion is dumb, imo, and the OP was only made so another thread to “subtly” “bash” Trump could be used.

But that’s just my two cents. I know some disagree.

[Internationalist Bastard]

He can be quoted as defending Jewish people in the early days

I see. Not sure that qualifies. lol.

That’s pretty not racist compared to his peers
He was a still a monster who gassed Ethiopians to gain a colony and fed people oil so they’d shit themselves to death, and he definitely betrayed the Jewish people he said he’d defend to Hitler, but he wasn’t pulling out the ovens or meat hooks at least

[Shanhwa]

I see. Not sure that qualifies. lol.

That’s pretty not racist compared to his peers
He was a still a monster who gassed Ethiopians to gain a colony and fed people oil so they’d shit themselves to death, and he definitely betrayed the Jewish people he said he’d defend to Hitler, but he wasn’t pulling out the ovens or meat hooks at least

Mussolini’s biggest mistakes were instituting the race laws and ponying up to Hitler as much as he did. He wasn’t too terribly bad of a leader minus that. A horrible tactician, yes, that’s true, but not that bad of a leader.

[Internationalist Bastard]

That’s pretty not racist compared to his peers
He was a still a monster who gassed Ethiopians to gain a colony and fed people oil so they’d shit themselves to death, and he definitely betrayed the Jewish people he said he’d defend to Hitler, but he wasn’t pulling out the ovens or meat hooks at least

Mussolini’s biggest mistakes were instituting the race laws and ponying up to Hitler as much as he did. He wasn’t too terribly bad of a leader minus that. A horrible tactician, yes, that’s true, but not that bad of a leader.

Again, diarrhea executions

[Seangoli]

Trump has never declared support for the alt-right. He's condemned the violence at charolettesville and anti-semiticism as a whole.

He has openly and proudly expressed his support for Israel and the Jews however.

Just because some in the alt-right support him ( though many do not ), doesnt mean he himself is alt-right ( as he is clearly not ).

Let's be frank here: He only half-heartedly condemned them after they killed someone, and even then it took harranging to get him to do so.

He may or may not be a racist or White nationalists, but he sure as shit knows they support him and the hand-wringing over calling them out even when they are being shit bags isn't exactly sending a message that he actually disavows them.

[Shanhwa]

Mussolini’s biggest mistakes were instituting the race laws and ponying up to Hitler as much as he did. He wasn’t too terribly bad of a leader minus that. A horrible tactician, yes, that’s true, but not that bad of a leader.

Again, diarrhea executions

I said his biggest mistakes. I never said the guy was a great person (lmao), if I ever even tried to say that I’d immensely regret it. I said he was a good leader. Yeah, he did shitty (no pun intended) things, that aren’t very morally justifiable, but he did do a decent amount of good stuff for Italy.

[Grimmsland]

I see. Not sure that qualifies. lol.

That’s pretty not racist compared to his peers
He was a still a monster who gassed Ethiopians to gain a colony and fed people oil so they’d shit themselves to death, and he definitely betrayed the Jewish people he said he’d defend to Hitler, but he wasn’t pulling out the ovens or meat hooks at least

Damn. What kind of gas on the Ethiopians? Didn't know that. Like canister mustard-gas? Fed people oil... yikes. Was that Ethiopians as well?
I know we're getting off-topic. Thanks for that information. I'll look into it.

[Internationalist Bastard]

That’s pretty not racist compared to his peers
He was a still a monster who gassed Ethiopians to gain a colony and fed people oil so they’d shit themselves to death, and he definitely betrayed the Jewish people he said he’d defend to Hitler, but he wasn’t pulling out the ovens or meat hooks at least

Damn. What kind of gas on the Ethiopians? Didn't know that. Like canister mustard-gas? Fed people oil... yikes. Was that Ethiopians as well?
I know we're getting off-topic. Thanks for that information. I'll look into it.

Oh yeah they straight dropped mustard gas on villages

[Holy Tedalonia]

Trump has never declared support for the alt-right. He's condemned the violence at charolettesville and anti-semiticism as a whole.

He has openly and proudly expressed his support for Israel and the Jews however.

Just because some in the alt-right support him ( though many do not ), doesnt mean he himself is alt-right ( as he is clearly not ).

Let's be frank here: He only half-heartedly condemned them after they killed someone, and even then it took harranging to get him to do so.

He may or may not be a racist or White nationalists, but he sure as shit knows they support him and the hand-wringing over calling them out even when they are being shit bags isn't exactly sending a message that he actually disavows them.

What would you have him do? He already had before the election, didnt want the recognize the kkks support of him. What is not half-hearted?

[New Sukberia]

1 - OP is an idiot.
2 - Neo-Nazis have much more in common with the left than the right.

Lol no.

[Bruchet]

Trump has never declared support for the alt-right. He's condemned the violence at charolettesville and anti-semiticism as a whole.

He has openly and proudly expressed his support for Israel and the Jews however.

Just because some in the alt-right support him ( though many do not ), doesnt mean he himself is alt-right ( as he is clearly not ).

Let's be frank here: He only half-heartedly condemned them after they killed someone, and even then it took harranging to get him to do so.

He may or may not be a racist or White nationalists, but he sure as shit knows they support him and the hand-wringing over calling them out even when they are being shit bags isn't exactly sending a message that he actually disavows them.

What are you on about? It's not the President's responsibility to condemn every group of wrongdoers individually. If you haven't noticed, every such condemnation by the President, Trump, Obama, whoever, is exactly the same. It's publicity, not responsibility.

[Seangoli]

Fascists are moreso extreme nationalists than they are specifically White Nationalists. While this often takes on the form of race based nationalism, it isn't always necessarily the case. Mussolini was pretty damn uninterested in Race based nationalism for the most part.

While White Nationalism is more or less Fascist in nature, not all Fascists are White Nationalists (or even Race Nationalists, as there are plenty of Non-White Race Nationalists out there).

Why would race even come onto his radar though? Was there a sizable non-Italian (or "non-European", or "non-white") population to consider?

Ehhhh... Italy is weird. The only people the Italians hate more than other groups is other Italians. There were some Jews, Austrians, Germans, and even French inside the peninsula who are "italian", but not "Italian". Italy has been a super diverse region for thousands of years, amd race really has never played much importance, as Italian politics following the fall of Rome has been heavily fractured at even the best of times, with a constant in-fighting between city states.

[Bruchet]

1 - OP is an idiot.
2 - Neo-Nazis have much more in common with the left than the right.

Lol no.

Such an eloquent rebuttal.