Alt-Right or Israel?

[Distance Running]

1 - By OP's logic Ihlan Omar is a white supremacist b/c she received support from David Duke. And contrary to popular opinion, Trump has spoken against the neo-Nazis.

2 - What part of the Nazi platform aligns with the right?

Extreme Nationalism???? Denouncement Of Equality???? Non-Pacifist????

Extreme nationalism - Like the kind that led the US to defeat an alliance of dictators called the Axis Powers?
Denouncement of equality - Like saying minorities are equally capable humans who can succeed without a helicopter government?
Non-pacifist - See Extreme Nationalism.

[Aureumterra]

Extreme Nationalism???? Denouncement Of Equality???? Non-Pacifist????

Denouncement of equality - Like saying minorities are equally capable humans who can succeed without a helicopter government?

Don’t you know? Minorities can’t possibly succeed without affirmative action, it’s there to help them be equal! /s

[Aclion]

Knowing the "tense" history between the far-right and the Jewish people, I honestly have no idea how he has both as allies at the same time.

What would happen though if Trump was forced to make a choice?
Personally I think he'd cut ties with Israel because he loves his base and has a history of extreme indifference to morality.

It's really simple, he doesn't. The antisemite neonazis aren't accepted by Trumps base, so he doesn't give a shit about them. If they tried to get him to cut ties with Israel we would not even hear about it, because literally no one gives a shit what they think.

And of course he's not going to condemn the alt right, "alt-right" is nothing but a turn of phrase used by the left to put anyone who opposes them under the same umbrella as Neonazis. Why would trump participate in an attempt to paint his supporters as Nazis when he can simple condemn neonazis?

[Distance Running]

Denouncement of equality - Like saying minorities are equally capable humans who can succeed without a helicopter government?

Don’t you know? Minorities can’t possibly succeed without affirmative action, it’s there to help them be equal! /s

Something tells me you aren't being completely forthright here. =0 =)

[Distance Running]

Knowing the "tense" history between the far-right and the Jewish people, I honestly have no idea how he has both as allies at the same time.

What would happen though if Trump was forced to make a choice?
Personally I think he'd cut ties with Israel because he loves his base and has a history of extreme indifference to morality.

It's really simple, he doesn't. The antisemite neonazis aren't accepted by Trumps base, so he doesn't give a shit about them. If they tried to get him to cut ties with Israel we would not even hear about it, because literally no one gives a shit what they think.

And of course he's not going to condemn the alt right, "alt-right" is nothing but a turn of phrase used by the left to put anyone who opposes them under the same umbrella as Neonazis. Why would trump participate in an attempt to paint his supporters as Nazis when he can simple condemn neonazis?

Pretty much. I laugh at the fools (happy mods?) who label Ben Shapiro, who is an Orthodox Jew, a Neo-Nazi.

[The Black Party]

You can be a National Socialist and still support Israel.

[Free Arabian Nation]

You can be a National Socialist and still support Israel.

I think Israel even has a national socialist party

[Pope Joan]

Despite the Dem chatter, Trump is as pro Israel as any president has ever been.

And Kushner is honestly Jewish, despite the chatter.

So Israel wins. Not necessarily one party there or another, but the nation.

He is embarrassed by the neo nazi guys but mostly gives them an uncomfortable shrug, the way the left does with the antifa thugs

[James_xenoland]

Throughout his presidency, Trump seems to have been giving mixed signals to the Jewish people. Trump has public support from alt-right groups (neo-nazis, kkk, etc.) and has made it clear he has no intention whatsoever of condemning them for their words or actions. On the other hand, Trump is very pro-Israel backing them on moving into Gaza and moving the embassy to Jerusalem along with having Jews including immediate family in his administration.

You're making a few errors with your logic. You make it sound like you think he could just "turn off" support from people whenever he wants to. But clearly that's not the case for anyone. On the second part of that argument.. it's a little more complex. For one thing, who is he supposed to be condemning but isn't? When you say "words or actions", you are describing things basically night and day. Even more so than normally, mainly because of the other part of the issue with your reasoning here. Ignoring the blatant and purposeful muddying of the waters and misrepresentation/characterization, by large parts of the media and others calling him out, of the people and groups supporting him or even just those claimed to be. In reality the whole argument, this narrative, all comes down to condemning someone for not also attacking what amounts to a strawman in the first place. Which is really a kind of circular logic in itself. (basically "anyone who supports you is a nazi, oh and why aren't you condemning nazis?! That makes you a nazi!") He could never meet their threshold for an acceptable amount of condemnation because they view/call anyone who wold support him as being either openly a nazi or a closeted one.

This isn't a question of whether they are mutually exclusive or not (clearly they are though) So basically the answer to your question is pretty self evident. He's either a jewish loving nazi or not a nazi at all.. (as anyone with even the smallest amount of objectiveness could see)

It's really simple, he doesn't. The antisemite neonazis aren't accepted by Trumps base, so he doesn't give a shit about them. If they tried to get him to cut ties with Israel we would not even hear about it, because literally no one gives a shit what they think.

And of course he's not going to condemn the alt right, "alt-right" is nothing but a turn of phrase used by the left to put anyone who opposes them under the same umbrella as Neonazis. Why would trump participate in an attempt to paint his supporters as Nazis when he can simple condemn neonazis?

This, and very well said I might add.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Why do people keep claiming the KKK and Neo Nazis are Alt Right?

They are?

[Dumb Ideologies]

The anti-Jewish lot are electorally insignificant and can't really go anywhere else, so this scenario simply wouldn't happen. They've nowhere near the influence and their meme power isn't worth half as much as having the Republican establishment begrudginly onside. He won't pivot in a decisively anti-Jew direction, there's no benefit for him in that.

No, the Jewish lobby will continue to tolerate occasional vague dogwhistles towards groups who include Jews on their hate list so long as Trump continues to support their real-world foreign policy and settlement objectives. That's how things are going to go.

I suppose my objection to the hypothetical is that in order to imagine this choice being an actual thing a bunch of other things also have to change to the point that you need to stick in an anti-disclaimer to remind people that this scenario IS meant to be bsed on real people and events.

[The South Falls]

Why do people keep claiming the KKK and Neo Nazis are Alt Right?

You've gone nearly 2,500 posts without noticing they are?

[Aureumterra]

Despite the Dem chatter, Trump is as pro Israel as any president has ever been.

And Kushner is honestly Jewish, despite the chatter.

So Israel wins. Not necessarily one party there or another, but the nation.

He is embarrassed by the neo nazi guys but mostly gives them an uncomfortable shrug, the way the left does with the antifa thugs

I have seen many right wingers condemning alt-rightists on this forum, but have yet to see a leftist doing so for AntiFa

[Wohlstantia]

I would prefer hyper-nationalists as opposed to propping up a modern day Apartheid state that appears to exist solely to antagonize its neighbours.
Ideally it would be neither, but sometimes you can't choose your allies.

[The South Falls]

I would prefer hyper-nationalists as opposed to propping up a modern day Apartheid state that appears to exist solely to antagonize its neighbours.
Ideally it would be neither, but sometimes you can't choose your allies.

Hyper-nationalists would for the same state, however.

[Aureumterra]

I would prefer hyper-nationalists as opposed to propping up a modern day Apartheid state that appears to exist solely to antagonize its neighbours.

And… serve as a home for the Jewish people, so that a second holocaust doesn’t happen?

[Israeli Commonwealth]

Throughout his presidency, Trump seems to have been giving mixed signals to the Jewish people. Trump has public support from alt-right groups (neo-nazis, kkk, etc.) and has made it clear he has no intention whatsoever of condemning them for their words or actions. On the other hand, Trump is very pro-Israel backing them on moving into Gaza and moving the embassy to Jerusalem along with having Jews including immediate family in his administration.

Knowing the "tense" history between the far-right and the Jewish people, I honestly have no idea how he has both as allies at the same time.

What would happen though if Trump was forced to make a choice? Let's say that an extremist Neo-Nazi (if it's even possible to be more extreme for these people) organization that become mainstream (as in consuming most of the right and even a few politicians) that demands cutting all ties with Israel, condemning all criticism of Nazi Germany or the CSA in classrooms, public denial of the Holocaust, the firing of all Jewish Government employees such as Kushner, and demands for a modern solution to the "Jewish problem". If forced between his "good people" or Israel, who would he choose and why?

I know that a group like that is extremely unlikely (at least I hope) to be successful in modern America but I wanted to take Trump's alliance with the Right to it's logical conclusion.

Personally I think he'd cut ties with Israel because he loves his base and has a history of extreme indifference to morality.

Knowing him and his ties with Israel I am certain he will choose Israel over Nazis. Also in case you didn't know Nazis are socialist so although he doesn't condemn them because he believes in free speech he would never support Nazism. Just FYI

[Wohlstantia]

I would prefer hyper-nationalists as opposed to propping up a modern day Apartheid state that appears to exist solely to antagonize its neighbours.

And… serve as a home for the Jewish people, so that a second holocaust doesn’t happen?

As long as all the local Levantines just quietly disappear, I'm sure.

[Frostnia]

And… serve as a home for the Jewish people, so that a second holocaust doesn’t happen?

As long as all the local Levantines just quietly disappear, I'm sure.

"Ignore all the dictators all around it, guys, Israel is the real baddie"

[Wohlstantia]

As long as all the local Levantines just quietly disappear, I'm sure.

"Ignore all the dictators all around it, guys, Israel is the real baddie"

Nice whataboutism, I don't get to call it out on other people very often. I find the actions of literally every state bordering Israel questionable at the least, abhorrent in most cases. This doesn't change the fact that Israel has second class citizens, and will settle on just about any piece of flat land if it means further isolation and dissolution of the pre-existing inhabitants of the region.

Sorry, that probably wasn't the answer you were expecting. "Saddam did nothing wrong, Syria is a perfect state". That should satisfy that craving.

[Frostnia]

"Ignore all the dictators all around it, guys, Israel is the real baddie"

Nice whataboutism, I don't get to call it out on other people very often. I find the actions of literally every state bordering Israel questionable at the least, abhorrent in most cases. This doesn't change the fact that Israel has second class citizens, and will settle on just about any piece of flat land if it means further isolation and dissolution of the pre-existing inhabitants of the region.

Sorry, that probably wasn't the answer you were expecting. "Saddam did nothing wrong, Syria is a perfect state". That should satisfy that craving.

I just find it infuriating that people devote such fervent energy to attacking Israel while generally shrugging off the actions of the surrounding states as "bad I guess". Even besides that, I don't see how Israel is in any way an apartheid state.

[Rojava Free State]

Trump is a pandering clown who would sell his mother into slavery for some votes. This man has no principles or defined ideas and will say and do whatever to get support. When he needs the Israel lobby he's a die hard Zionist and when he needs the support of the local Nazis he calls them fine people. Trump is the same guy who said he would end illegal immigration and catch and release while mass catching and releasing thousands of people this week alone. No one should trust him. He flip flops so much he makes mitt romney seem like honest abe

[Rojava Free State]

Nice whataboutism, I don't get to call it out on other people very often. I find the actions of literally every state bordering Israel questionable at the least, abhorrent in most cases. This doesn't change the fact that Israel has second class citizens, and will settle on just about any piece of flat land if it means further isolation and dissolution of the pre-existing inhabitants of the region.

Sorry, that probably wasn't the answer you were expecting. "Saddam did nothing wrong, Syria is a perfect state". That should satisfy that craving.

I just find it infuriating that people devote such fervent energy to attacking Israel while generally shrugging off the actions of the surrounding states as "bad I guess". Even besides that, I don't see how Israel is in any way an apartheid state.

I find it kind of strange that even when i was in majority Arab areas in israel, the police force still was entirely jewish. Also, it's kinda funny how they keep people in Gaza fenced in that city while raining bombs on them. You can't go in or out, it's like an open air prison

[Baltenstein]

Your mistake is assuming there's a real conflict of interests between Netanyahus party and neo-nazis and so on in a way that makes pleasing both impossible.

Seconded.

Israel, the regional power-player in the Middle East, is not at all the same as say, a Jewish anti-discrimination group in the US. The latter will obviously mind American (and other) Neo-Nazis very much, the former will check if the activities of said Neo-Nazis pose a threat to its national interests or not and act accordingly.
Why, a particularly cynical Israeli Realpolitik would be to analyze in what ways Western Alt-Right groups can actually act as useful idiots (a role that Alt-Righters, like most ideological mob mentality groups, are very suited for) to further Israeli interests (for example, steering the public discourse in the US or other Western countries to become more aggressive towards the Muslim world, demand stricter border policies etc)

[Rojava Free State]

Throughout his presidency, Trump seems to have been giving mixed signals to the Jewish people. Trump has public support from alt-right groups (neo-nazis, kkk, etc.) and has made it clear he has no intention whatsoever of condemning them for their words or actions. On the other hand, Trump is very pro-Israel backing them on moving into Gaza and moving the embassy to Jerusalem along with having Jews including immediate family in his administration.

Knowing the "tense" history between the far-right and the Jewish people, I honestly have no idea how he has both as allies at the same time.

What would happen though if Trump was forced to make a choice? Let's say that an extremist Neo-Nazi (if it's even possible to be more extreme for these people) organization that become mainstream (as in consuming most of the right and even a few politicians) that demands cutting all ties with Israel, condemning all criticism of Nazi Germany or the CSA in classrooms, public denial of the Holocaust, the firing of all Jewish Government employees such as Kushner, and demands for a modern solution to the "Jewish problem". If forced between his "good people" or Israel, who would he choose and why?

I know that a group like that is extremely unlikely (at least I hope) to be successful in modern America but I wanted to take Trump's alliance with the Right to it's logical conclusion.

Personally I think he'd cut ties with Israel because he loves his base and has a history of extreme indifference to morality.

Knowing him and his ties with Israel I am certain he will choose Israel over Nazis. Also in case you didn't know Nazis are socialist so although he doesn't condemn them because he believes in free speech he would never support Nazism. Just FYI

"There were fine people on both sides" -Donald trump describing a neo Nazi and klansmen rally where people actually died