Morality

[Andsed]

Well yeah with morality there is no real one true set of morals. It really only comes down to how you were raised and your personal opinions.

Then there's zero reason to discuss morality.

Wrong. Morality is our opinions and there are many of reasons to discuss our opinions that does not require some random arbitrary one set of ¨true morals.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Then there's zero reason to discuss morality.

Wrong. Morality is our opinions and there are many of reasons to discuss our opinions that does not require some random arbitrary one set of ¨true morals.

Name one good reason to discuss something that there's no correct answer for.

[Andsed]

Wrong. Morality is our opinions and there are many of reasons to discuss our opinions that does not require some random arbitrary one set of ¨true morals.

Name one good reason to discuss something that there's no correct answer for.

To get a better understanding of what others think.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Name one good reason to discuss something that there's no correct answer for.

To get a better understanding of what others think.

Okay, why is that a good reason?

[Andsed]

To get a better understanding of what others think.

Okay, why is that a good reason?

So that we may better connect with others and expand our worldviews and ideas of wrong and right farther than what our cultures tell us.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Okay, why is that a good reason?

So that we may better connect with others and expand our worldviews and ideas of wrong and right farther than what our cultures tell us.

And why should we do that?

[Nolo gap]

universally mutual consideration among sapients and universal consideration towards all things else by us.
which also takes logic in the service of consideration to avoid causing harm.

its not because some book or some person or some anything says its the nice great wonderful thing to do,
its all about what creates statistically the kind of world all of us have to experience living in.

beliefs can motivate wanting to make our world a better and not worse place for each other,
but that is the beginning and end of all they have to do with it.

without consideration there is only tyranny, and the opposite of morality, which is tyranny, is the dominance of aggressiveness.
belligerance, greed, and biggotry of all kinds, not just race, gender preference, or any other one thing, but all, these are all parts of what i mean by aggressiveness.

the only evil is to knowingly, willinging, and uncoerced yourself, cause harm, for no good reason or even no reason.

gods may be things that exist, and the universal wonder of strangeness observably is, but morality is what is up to us, to avoid making life less pleasant for each other.
really the avoidance of causing needless and undesirable suffering and harm, is the beginning and end, of the only thing that morality is.

[Andsed]

So that we may better connect with others and expand our worldviews and ideas of wrong and right farther than what our cultures tell us.

And why should we do that?

So that we can
1. Be better connected with those living in other cultures,
2. Expand our knowledge of the world,
3. And so that we are not living in a bubble ignorant of what other cultures and billions of others think.

[United Muscovite Nations]

And why should we do that?

So that we can
1. Be better connected with those living in other cultures,
2. Expand our knowledge of the world,
3. And so that we are not living in a bubble ignorant of what other cultures and billions of others think.

Why should we do that though? That seems to imply there's deeper meaning than our opinion. Because if there isn't, someone could just not value those things and thus shouldn't pursue them.

[Andsed]

So that we can
1. Be better connected with those living in other cultures,
2. Expand our knowledge of the world,
3. And so that we are not living in a bubble ignorant of what other cultures and billions of others think.

Why should we do that though? That seems to imply there's deeper meaning than our opinion. Because if there isn't, someone could just not value those things and thus shouldn't pursue them.

I have already explained why. It is so that we can be better connected with other people in the world.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Why should we do that though? That seems to imply there's deeper meaning than our opinion. Because if there isn't, someone could just not value those things and thus shouldn't pursue them.

I have already explained why. It is so that we can be better connected with other people in the world.

Yeah, but why should we be better connected with other people?

[Andsed]

I have already explained why. It is so that we can be better connected with other people in the world.

Yeah, but why should we be better connected with other people?

So that we can on work together for a common goal and not be constantly arguing.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Yeah, but why should we be better connected with other people?

So that we can on work together for a common goal and not be constantly arguing.

And why should we do that?

[Andsed]

So that we can on work together for a common goal and not be constantly arguing.

And why should we do that?

Because when we work together we get a lot more done?

[Kaystein]

A person's morality can be defined from any number of sources. Their religion, which in a personal example a part of my moral values are defined by my religion. It could be from family, which again my mother and my brother were two contributing factors toward my moral/ethical development. It could be society, though i'm an exception in that regard. It could be something unexpected, like the internet; being a collective database of mankind's knowledge. I learned much from simply browsing wikipedia and youtube that society and my own family failed to teach me.

For me, it's largely through my religion and the internet that I developed most of my current values.

[United Muscovite Nations]

And why should we do that?

Because when we work together we get a lot more done?

Why should we get a lot more done?

[Andsed]

Because when we work together we get a lot more done?

Why should we get a lot more done?

I would think this would be obvious but it is because it would lead to better technology and better lives.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Why should we get a lot more done?

I would think this would be obvious but it is because it would lead to better technology and better lives.

That seems to imply that there's something inherently good about better lives.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

Yeah, but why should we be better connected with other people?

So that we can on work together for a common goal and not be constantly arguing.

If I'm not misinterpreting UMN, the point that he's trying to make is that you are treating "working together for a common goal" as if it is objectively good. You are treating being "better connected with others" as if it is objectively good. In other words, you make the claim that morality is subjective, but you don't apply this in practice.

As for my take on the issue, I concur with UMN in that I maintain that objective morality exists.

[United Muscovite Nations]

So that we can on work together for a common goal and not be constantly arguing.

If I'm not misinterpreting UMN, the point that he's trying to make is that you are treating "working together for a common goal" as if it is objectively good. You are treating being "better connected with others" as if it is objectively good. In other words, you make the claim that morality is subjective, but you don't apply this in practice.

As for my take on the issue, I concur with UMN in that I maintain that objective morality exists.

Bingo.

[Andsed]

I would think this would be obvious but it is because it would lead to better technology and better lives.

That seems to imply that there's something inherently good about better lives.

Well I think 99.99% of the world would agree that it is a good thing to have better lives.

[United Muscovite Nations]

That seems to imply that there's something inherently good about better lives.

Well I think 99.99% of the world would agree that it is a good thing to have better lives.

So what, they're not right or anything.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

That seems to imply that there's something inherently good about better lives.

Well I think 99.99% of the world would agree that it is a good thing to have better lives.

So in matters of moral practice, you're a utilitarian, perhaps?

[Andsed]

Well I think 99.99% of the world would agree that it is a good thing to have better lives.

So what, they're not right or anything.

Okay fine I concede on this argument. I really have no more interest in this debate. This all comes down to our subjective opinions. You have yours and I have mine. Agree to disagree and all that jazz.

[United Muscovite Nations]

So what, they're not right or anything.

Okay fine I concede on this argument. I really have no more interest in this debate. This all comes down to our subjective opinions. You have yours and I have mine. Agree to disagree and all that jazz.

Yeah, that's my point, there was no point in this argument, because if morality is subjective, there's no objective meaning in life to pursue.