Morality

[Hamstan]

Yeah... but at least it keeps me goin.

Oh, I genuinely want the end of the world, I was hoping I'd found another one.

I'm cool if it just ends. A lot less things for me to worry bout, then. If it's only a partial collapse like a flare or something, that's cool too. I'm just tired of all the bullshit, mostly

[Twilight Imperium]

If there's no real right or wrong, just say there's no morality. Moral philosophy isn't about describing opinions, it's trying to describe reality. If it's just opinion, and there are no facts, then it doesn't exist at all. That's just nihilism that doesn't want to admit that it's nihilism.

You could say the same thing about laws. There's no objective legal system, just whatever a culture deems legal or illegal. If it's just our opinions, then there are no facts, et cetera et cetera. Yet you'll still get arrested for breaking them.

Morality is a social construct created by individuals in aggregate over time, that describes what people as a group believe is right or wrong. People learn their society's ethical codes while growing up and internalize them to varying degrees. That's not nihilism, it's humanism.

Culture is only created by individuals.

A mosaic is made of tiles, but a single tile is not a mosaic.

[Gohnorea]

Some morals are absolute, Don't kill (Unless it's self defense or you're in war.) Don't rape, ect. The other things from religious texts are vague and kind of dumb from a modern perspective.

[Andsed]

Not my argument and if you want to debate that take it to that thread.

I'm just saying, you're using a double standard. There's no way one society can judge another society's treatment of homosexuals according to your own arguments, which you even applied to the Holocaust when pressed.

It´s not. I have never stated you can´t debate and discuss different society morals but I am arguing that saying that morality is objective is wrong and that the culture your born in will effect your morals.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I'm just saying, you're using a double standard. There's no way one society can judge another society's treatment of homosexuals according to your own arguments, which you even applied to the Holocaust when pressed.

It´s not. I have never stated you can´t debate and discuss different society morals but I am arguing that saying that morality is objective is wrong and that the culture your born in will effect your morals.

When I asked if there was such a thing as social injustices, you seemed to argue that there aren't.

[Andsed]

It´s not. I have never stated you can´t debate and discuss different society morals but I am arguing that saying that morality is objective is wrong and that the culture your born in will effect your morals.

When I asked if there was such a thing as social injustices, you seemed to argue that there aren't.

I am arguing that social injustices or only injustices because we say they are.

[United Muscovite Nations]

When I asked if there was such a thing as social injustices, you seemed to argue that there aren't.

I am arguing that social injustices or only injustices because we say they are.

Then what about the societies that perpetuate those injustices? The people in those societies say they aren't injustices.

[Andsed]

I am arguing that social injustices or only injustices because we say they are.

Then what about the societies that perpetuate those injustices? The people in those societies say they aren't injustices.

Yes that is my point. Objectively nothing can be right or wrong because we all have different ideas of what is right or wrong.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Then what about the societies that perpetuate those injustices? The people in those societies say they aren't injustices.

Yes that is my point. Objectively nothing can be right or wrong because we all have different ideas of what is right or wrong.

Then don't go into another thread and lie about how what other societies do is wrong, it's disingenuous.

[Twilight Imperium]

Yes that is my point. Objectively nothing can be right or wrong because we all have different ideas of what is right or wrong.

Then don't go into another thread and lie about how what other societies do is wrong, it's disingenuous.

That's not really how this works, you're still getting hung up on objective morality. If society Y holds something to be immoral and society X holds it sacred, they're both right. It's historically been the basis of a lot of conflict, because there is no objective standard.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Then don't go into another thread and lie about how what other societies do is wrong, it's disingenuous.

That's not really how this works, you're still getting hung up on objective morality. If society Y holds something to be immoral and society X holds it sacred, they're both right. It's historically been the basis of a lot of conflict, because there is no objective standard.

If you're both right, there's no grounds to criticize the other.

[Uxupox]

Then don't go into another thread and lie about how what other societies do is wrong, it's disingenuous.

That's not really how this works, you're still getting hung up on objective morality. If society Y holds something to be immoral and society X holds it sacred, they're both right. It's historically been the basis of a lot of conflict, because there is no objective standard.

They can't be both right or else there wouldn't be a conflict at all and they would be prancing around all handy dandy.

[Andsed]

Yes that is my point. Objectively nothing can be right or wrong because we all have different ideas of what is right or wrong.

Then don't go into another thread and lie about how what other societies do is wrong, it's disingenuous.

While morality is subjective that does not mean we can debate morals. Sure my suggestion of sanctioning a nation based off their may have been to far and I will concede there criticizing and debating morals of another culture is fine.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Then don't go into another thread and lie about how what other societies do is wrong, it's disingenuous.

While morality is subjective that does not mean we can debate morals. Sure my suggestion of sanctioning a nation based off their may have been to far and I will concede there criticizing and debating morals of another culture is fine.

We actually can't debate morality if it's just subjective because there's no axioms to discuss.

[Andsed]

While morality is subjective that does not mean we can debate morals. Sure my suggestion of sanctioning a nation based off their may have been to far and I will concede there criticizing and debating morals of another culture is fine.

We actually can't debate morality if it's just subjective because there's no axioms to discuss.

We can discuss opinions no?

[New Legland]

Okay. That says nothing about its validity.


And? As long as there's a general consensus, it will be enforced. This only becomes an issue if we encounter some alien species with very different values.

So you don't object to anything societies do to their people?

I will object if it goes against my subjective morality. The universe may not give a shit, but people do.

[United Muscovite Nations]

We actually can't debate morality if it's just subjective because there's no axioms to discuss.

We can discuss opinions no?

Not conclusively, no.

[United Muscovite Nations]

So you don't object to anything societies do to their people?

I will object if it goes against my subjective morality. The universe may not give a shit, but people do.

If morality is just opinion, your opinion on genocide has no more weight than your opinion on which kind of steak is best.

[Andsed]

We can discuss opinions no?

Not conclusively, no.

Well we do discuss our opinions all the fucking time here on NSG. My arguments are not that we can´t discuss our morals with each other. My argument is that there is no objective morality.

[New Legland]

I will object if it goes against my subjective morality. The universe may not give a shit, but people do.

If morality is just opinion, your opinion on genocide has no more weight than your opinion on which kind of steak is best.

Objectively, no, but I personally believe that it does.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Not conclusively, no.

Well we do discuss our opinions all the fucking time here on NSG. My arguments are not that we can´t discuss our morals with each other. My argument is that there is no objective morality.

We don't discuss them conclusively though, no one ever changes their mind. If there's no truth, then there's no point in discussion. Like I said, there'd be no more weight behind our opinions on genocide than our opinions on what kind of steak is tastiest.

[United Muscovite Nations]

If morality is just opinion, your opinion on genocide has no more weight than your opinion on which kind of steak is best.

Objectively, no, but I personally believe that it does.

So what? Why should some dictator give a shit what you think?

[Andsed]

Well we do discuss our opinions all the fucking time here on NSG. My arguments are not that we can´t discuss our morals with each other. My argument is that there is no objective morality.

We don't discuss them conclusively though, no one ever changes their mind. If there's no truth, then there's no point in discussion. Like I said, there'd be no more weight behind our opinions on genocide than our opinions on what kind of steak is tastiest.

Well yeah with morality there is no real one true set of morals. It really only comes down to how you were raised and your personal opinions.

[New Legland]

Objectively, no, but I personally believe that it does.

So what? Why should some dictator give a shit what you think?

Objectively, he shouldn't. However, I think he should, and if he doesn't, fuck him.

[United Muscovite Nations]

We don't discuss them conclusively though, no one ever changes their mind. If there's no truth, then there's no point in discussion. Like I said, there'd be no more weight behind our opinions on genocide than our opinions on what kind of steak is tastiest.

Well yeah with morality there is no real one true set of morals. It really only comes down to how you were raised and your personal opinions.

Then there's zero reason to discuss morality.