Morality

[Andsed]

Everyone decides what they think is right or wrong. It works like this. Everyone decides what they think is right or wrong and there is usually a popular opinion such as how most of us think the Holocaust was wrong.

But what we think doesn't actually change what is right or wrong, so there's nothing that's really wrong.

Well while fucked up to say the only things that are wrong to us are wrong because we deem them wrong. It all depends on what you think of something. That is why debates most of the time end with neither side changing their belief or why there are those that celebrate the Holocaust.

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

Yes because everyone has their own subjective opinion on what morals they think are right and wrong. These morals are shaped by society yes but at the end of the day our morals are our opinions.

So does everyone decide what is right and wrong, and these opinions are all on equal footing?

For different reasons, not according to me and not according to that wacko on mosque near my mom's office who advocated for LGBT people to be thrown off a cliff, ridiculous even to conservative ulemas.

Happens in almost every single absolute monarchy ~90% of history.



1) Yet apparently, society that don't support genocide lasts and prospers while society that do support genocide don't last in the current world order. Besides, it's not like everything we do today is moral either to the people in the future, as they will probably think how we treat industrially farmed animal, war on drugs, etc is both cruel and insane.



2) I (subtly and secretly) support LGBT rights, abolition of the blasphemy law and implementation of a secular government in my IRL country. I am mega immoral here, and I'll be hypermega immoral 100 years ago.

1) Whether a society lasts longer has nothing to do with whether what it did is right or wrong.

2) If what you do is immoral, how do you justify it?

1) Morality is simply an evolutionary advantage, like fangs or better eyesight. Not special. (Okay special, because only us humans have the brain to comprehend that). You also gotta consider the subconscious instincts we've evolved, as we instinctively judge killing a member of our group as wrong. The same instinct also give a strong tribalism sense, which isn't necessarily good in today's world.

2) By conforming. While I value a lot of western values, this is the definition of apathy and selfishness, so don't try this at home, but I'm more worried about my connection, social standing and future career than things like this. Of course I've thrown around arguments to shake my peers' moral status quo and is secretly campaigning for a liberal party.

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

Everyone decides what they think is right or wrong. It works like this. Everyone decides what they think is right or wrong and there is usually a popular opinion such as how most of us think the Holocaust was wrong.

But what we think doesn't actually change what is right or wrong, so there's nothing that's really wrong.

Nothing is true, everything is permitted. Then society judges which is beneficial for themselves and which is nilot.

[United Muscovite Nations]

So does everyone decide what is right and wrong, and these opinions are all on equal footing?

For different reasons, not according to me and not according to that wacko on mosque near my mom's office who advocated for LGBT people to be thrown off a cliff, ridiculous even to conservative ulemas.

1) Whether a society lasts longer has nothing to do with whether what it did is right or wrong.

2) If what you do is immoral, how do you justify it?

1) Morality is simply an evolutionary advantage, like fangs or better eyesight. Not special. (Okay special, because only us humans have the brain to comprehend that). You also gotta consider the subconscious instincts we've evolved, as we instinctively judge killing a member of our group as wrong. The same instinct also give a strong tribalism sense, which isn't necessarily good in today's world.

2) By conforming. While I value a lot of western values, this is the definition of apathy and selfishness, so don't try this at home, but I'm more worried about my connection, social standing and future career than things like this. Of course I've thrown around arguments to shake my peers' moral status quo and is secretly campaigning for a liberal party.

1) If it's simply an evolutionary advantage, that contradicts your statement that it's based on opinion. That also opens the door for a lot that society would judge to be wrong. For example, it might be evolutionarily advantageous for an ugly man who can't attract a mate to rape large numbers of women in the hopes that he will pass on his genes. But we clearly don't think that that is moral.

2) I mean why do you value a lot of western values? You yourself said that they were immoral.

[United Muscovite Nations]

But what we think doesn't actually change what is right or wrong, so there's nothing that's really wrong.

Nothing is true, everything is permitted. Then society judges which is beneficial for themselves and which is nilot.

Society's judgement has no bearing on what is beneficial or not. If you're going to say morality is subjective, you can't then base it on objective criteria like benefit and harm.

[Erythrean Thebes]

I ask, why should morality be anything other than a respect of other peoples' personal integrity? I wonder if religion as expressed by the majority of religious professors can be anything other than inferior to such a system. Will not every system of morality predicated on rules rather than respect lead to mistakes and shortsightedness?

[Uxupox]

And yet there are some imperatives that transcend even culture for indeed people look for excuses for actions such as selfishness, but not for selflessness and honesty, but not for dishonesty. What makes some of these concepts universal instead based on locality and its people. For many religious people of different faiths, that's why God or the Gods give an answer as a testament to morality. In the absence of such one must debase themselves to just rationally thinking that we are mere atoms sprung up by chance with worthless lives in which futures lies nothing but a mere legacy.

Your point being?

That there exists a Real Truth (in Christian meaning anyway) based on the concept of natural law and a materialistic truth in which anything can be subjectively good.

[Auristania]

Humans define Morality because Humans build Morality for our comfort and conwenience same as we build Bridges and Schools and Markets and Armies and Cathedrals.

Bears are Catholic, they don't need Morality because they are mostly solitary creatures like dragons.

Humans are pack animals same as wolves, bees and hobbits. The lone wolf dies, the pack survives. Care for the Clan is the heart and soul of Morality.

Over History, larger groupings arose. You gotta care for the Tribe, the City, the Nation, the Church, all People, all Life including yucky insects.

Look after your own is all of morality. Dimensions include who counts as my own? What is the best way to care for us?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I (subtly and secretly) support LGBT rights

Which kinds?

abolition of the blasphemy law

What's that law say?

and implementation of a secular government in my IRL country.

Why?

[The National Salvation Front for Russia]

For me, morality includes upholding the Great Commandment, which teaches to love God and your neighbor as yourself.

Really, it comes down to following God's teaching and trying to act virtuously.

[New Legland]

Morality is mainly defined by advantageous behaviors supported by natural selection and, to a degree, each society's personal preference.

[New Legland]

It was wrong in our eyes with our morals and ideas of right and wrong and I´m not denying that but what I am arguing against is this nonsensical idea that there is one set of morals that is correct and that all sentient species follow. I like most other humans(which there are those few Nazis who celebrate the Holocaust) think the Holocaust was awful but to an culture with very different morals to our the Holocaust to them could not be anything all that bad.

Then it wasn't wrong. What matters is the opinion at the time.

That's why I think moral subjectivism is ridiculous, it's an absolutely toothless moral theory that requires zero moral judgement.

Okay. That says nothing about its validity.

Everyone decides what they think is right or wrong. It works like this. Everyone decides what they think is right or wrong and there is usually a popular opinion such as how most of us think the Holocaust was wrong.

But what we think doesn't actually change what is right or wrong, so there's nothing that's really wrong.

And? As long as there's a general consensus, it will be enforced. This only becomes an issue if we encounter some alien species with very different values.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Fuck morality, it's an idiotic concept which artificially restrains our actions.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Then it wasn't wrong. What matters is the opinion at the time.

That's why I think moral subjectivism is ridiculous, it's an absolutely toothless moral theory that requires zero moral judgement.

Okay. That says nothing about its validity.

But what we think doesn't actually change what is right or wrong, so there's nothing that's really wrong.

And? As long as there's a general consensus, it will be enforced. This only becomes an issue if we encounter some alien species with very different values.

So you don't object to anything societies do to their people?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Fuck morality, it's an idiotic concept which artificially restrains our actions.

I have a feeling you don't actually think that anything people do is okay.

[Andsed]

Okay. That says nothing about its validity.


And? As long as there's a general consensus, it will be enforced. This only becomes an issue if we encounter some alien species with very different values.

So you don't object to anything societies do to their people?

We can object to what the aliens do but I doubt they would care and would probably object to what we are doing.

[United Muscovite Nations]

So you don't object to anything societies do to their people?

We can object to what the aliens do but I doubt they would care and would probably object to what we are doing.

I mean in general, I think the alien part is incoherent, there are different societies here on Earth. Can societies judge each other?

[Andsed]

We can object to what the aliens do but I doubt they would care and would probably object to what we are doing.

I mean in general, I think the alien part is incoherent, there are different societies here on Earth. Can societies judge each other?

Yeah we do all the time. We throw shit at each other all the time does not mean one side is objectively correct.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Fuck morality, it's an idiotic concept which artificially restrains our actions.

I have a feeling you don't actually think that anything people do is okay.

Okay, here is how I decide if what I want to do is okay:

Do I want to do it?
Will doing it benefit me more than it will hurt me?
Is doing it against the law?
Would I be able to get away with it if I did it anyway?
If the answers to questions 1 and 2 are correct, I'd do it, unless the answer to question 3 was also yes and 4 was no.

[Hamstan]

What defines morality? I don't know. Some say it's subjective, others say it's objective. To be honest, I don't really give a damn. I say that the individual has no power in politics anymore and the corporations are just using consolidation to screw as much out of the little guy as possible. I'm just waiting for society to collapse at this point.

But enough from a doomer like me, what does everyone else have to say?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

What defines morality? I don't know. Some say it's subjective, others say it's objective. To be honest, I don't really give a damn. I say that the individual has no power in politics anymore and the corporations are just using consolidation to screw as much out of the little guy as possible. I'm just waiting for society to collapse at this point.

But enough from a doomer like me, what does everyone else have to say?

Complete collapse? We can only dream.

[US-SSR]

As the thread title says, what define morality? Does religion define morality or do you not need religion to define morality?

I personally believe religion can help someone have morals, considering that they have a Holy book such as the Quran in my Faith's case to study all the time. Fear of God especially comes into play when someone wants to purify themselves morally. Many religious people like Muslims and Christians, for instance, have a goal to attain, that being, the worship of God, to develop better morals.

This helps motivate them to donate to charity, helping their neighbor, having compassion, patience, and etc.

I am not denying however, that one without religion cannot have morals, nor that religious people, are simply better than atheists. Rather, fear of God, and a lot of prayers, as in the case of Islam, can really put a lot of emphasis for an individual to develop righteousness, and in turn, a high moral character as they have that goal in mind, the attainment of the pleasure of God?

What is your view on morality? Religious or not? Discuss.

Not.

The morality of an action or belief depends on its consequences. Religious belief or lack of it is no guarantee of moral behavior or belief. Also, religious moralists tend to draw up sets of rules which in themselves are inadequate bases for moral guidance.

[Hamstan]

Complete collapse? We can only dream.

Yeah... but at least it keeps me goin.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I have a feeling you don't actually think that anything people do is okay.

Okay, here is how I decide if what I want to do is okay:

Do I want to do it?
Will doing it benefit me more than it will hurt me?
Is doing it against the law?
Would I be able to get away with it if I did it anyway?
If the answers to questions 1 and 2 are correct, I'd do it, unless the answer to question 3 was also yes and 4 was no.

That's just Ethical Egoism, that's still a moral theory.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Complete collapse? We can only dream.

Yeah... but at least it keeps me goin.

Oh, I genuinely want the end of the world, I was hoping I'd found another one.