NATION

PASSWORD

Is this BS?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

I think..

..this is clearly BS
6
19%
..this is not BS
5
16%
..clicking polls is BS
3
10%
..Hasselhoff is BS
4
13%
..everything is BS
13
42%
 
Total votes : 31

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Bombadil
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Is this BS?

Postby Bombadil » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:22 pm

My gut feeling is that this article is questionable at best given the date but see no obvious clues off a cursory reading but the idea that rich American males are the biggest bullshitters seems to feed into too much narrative.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... SApp_Other

Even if real it seems to be about lying to bolster credentials than, say, admitting your true age where females would be off the scale.

Yet what thinks the honest citizens of NSG.

Is this bullshit and, if not, what to make of it.

Some bullshit poll coming in a bit.
Last edited by Bombadil on Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Galactic Liberal Democracy
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Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:25 pm

Idk. Lying doesn’t show that a group is good or bad, maybe you don’t have anything to hide or you have something to prove to others. I’d have to read further on the studies.
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Northwest Slobovia
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Postby Northwest Slobovia » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:58 pm

It seems rather tounge in cheek, if nothing else. The closing sentence makes me think somebody is pulling our legs, even if poking around online suggests it may be legit:
Jerrim said a major question is whether, and when, the art is beneficial. “Everyone gets a question in a job interview that they cannot answer. If you’re an effective bullshitter, it might help you get your foot in the door,” he said. “It might also help with academic grant proposals.”
(My emphasis.)

That's an unusually frank admission for somebody dependent on research grants. :P
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:34 pm

Northwest Slobovia wrote:It seems rather tounge in cheek, if nothing else. The closing sentence makes me think somebody is pulling our legs, even if poking around online suggests it may be legit:
Jerrim said a major question is whether, and when, the art is beneficial. “Everyone gets a question in a job interview that they cannot answer. If you’re an effective bullshitter, it might help you get your foot in the door,” he said. “It might also help with academic grant proposals.”
(My emphasis.)

That's an unusually frank admission for somebody dependent on research grants. :P


Yeah, it does seem tongue in cheek but, albeit light search, the links aren't exactly conclusive but they're not clearly BS either. From the article..

For one of the questions, the teenagers must rate how familiar they are with 16 mathematical concepts ranging from polygons and vectors to quadratic functions and congruent figures. Hidden among the bona fide terms are three fakes: proper numbers, subjective scaling and declarative functions.

Jerrim took the students’ responses to the three fake concepts to draw up a “bullshit scale”, which he then used to compare different groups, such as boys and girls, high and low socioeconomic status, and the regions where people lived.

“Boys are bigger bullshitters than girls, children from higher socioeconomic backgrounds tend to bullshit more than those from lower ones, and North Americans bullshit the most,” Jerrim said. Those who ranked highest on the scale tended to see themselves as more self-confident, more persevering, and more popular at school, than those further down the scale.


Normally the names are a clue, being a pun on something but I don't automatically see anything.. so perhaps it's an anti-April Fool's article in that it's genuine but feel a bit BS.

Anyway, for all you higher socioeconomic USians out there, does this explain the general level of BS on NSG alone beyond global tables.
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十年

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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:45 pm

It's fake news.
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:50 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:It's fake news.


The fact it's posted - Mon 1 Apr 2019 00.01 BST - leads me to believe the same but, again, normally there's a clear clue such as the journalist name or other.. some of the names just lead to a WP site, which anyone could put up but still.. nothing clear.
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Memeosan
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Postby Memeosan » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:55 pm

For one of the questions, the teenagers must rate how familiar they are with 16 mathematical concepts ranging from polygons and vectors to quadratic functions and congruent figures. Hidden among the bona fide terms are three fakes: proper numbers, subjective scaling and declarative functions.

In Australia, you don't do this kind of math until year 11, It's not part of the national curriculum.

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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:02 pm

Memeosan wrote:For one of the questions, the teenagers must rate how familiar they are with 16 mathematical concepts ranging from polygons and vectors to quadratic functions and congruent figures. Hidden among the bona fide terms are three fakes: proper numbers, subjective scaling and declarative functions.

In Australia, you don't do this kind of math until year 11, It's not part of the national curriculum.


I don't believe any of those terms are actually mathematical.
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Postby Deutsche Herrschaft » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:04 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:It's fake news.


The fact it's posted - Mon 1 Apr 2019 00.01 BST - leads me to believe the same but, again, normally there's a clear clue such as the journalist name or other.. some of the names just lead to a WP site, which anyone could put up but still.. nothing clear.

Oh no, today is actually April 1st.
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Memeosan
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Postby Memeosan » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:05 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Memeosan wrote:For one of the questions, the teenagers must rate how familiar they are with 16 mathematical concepts ranging from polygons and vectors to quadratic functions and congruent figures. Hidden among the bona fide terms are three fakes: proper numbers, subjective scaling and declarative functions.

In Australia, you don't do this kind of math until year 11, It's not part of the national curriculum.


I don't believe any of those terms are actually mathematical.


Vectors, quadratics and congruent figures?

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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:06 pm

Memeosan wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
I don't believe any of those terms are actually mathematical.


Vectors, quadratics and congruent figures?


Proper numbers, subjective scaling, and declarative functions.
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Northwest Slobovia
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Postby Northwest Slobovia » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:07 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:It's fake news.


The fact it's posted - Mon 1 Apr 2019 00.01 BST - leads me to believe the same but, again, normally there's a clear clue such as the journalist name or other.. some of the names just lead to a WP site, which anyone could put up but still.. nothing clear.

Jerrim, the guy who supposedly ran the study, appears real. He doesn't seem to do research in the area, but one never knows. It's possible the Guardian knew he had a sense of humor and asked if they could use his name, of course. :P

Valrifell wrote:
Memeosan wrote:For one of the questions, the teenagers must rate how familiar they are with 16 mathematical concepts ranging from polygons and vectors to quadratic functions and congruent figures. Hidden among the bona fide terms are three fakes: proper numbers, subjective scaling and declarative functions.

In Australia, you don't do this kind of math until year 11, It's not part of the national curriculum.


I don't believe any of those terms are actually mathematical.

Everything except the fakes are real, and "declarative functions" are meaningful in computer science, but not math. But it's not like I've checked the PISA exam to see if that's a legit question on it.
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:08 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Memeosan wrote:
Vectors, quadratics and congruent figures?


Proper numbers, subjective scaling, and declarative functions.


Good call, subjective scaling and declarative functions could replace the word BS to a degree - though they're fake as part of the test so maybe that's why chosen.
Last edited by Bombadil on Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

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Postby Polish Prussian Commonwealth » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:09 pm

Can attest to this. I'm a prime practitioner of BS.
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Memeosan
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Postby Memeosan » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:10 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Memeosan wrote:
Vectors, quadratics and congruent figures?


Proper numbers, subjective scaling, and declarative functions.


Never heard of "Subjective scaling" and "declarative functions" in my entire high-school career.

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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:12 pm

Memeosan wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Proper numbers, subjective scaling, and declarative functions.


Never heard of "Subjective scaling" and "declarative functions" in my entire high-school career.


You wouldn't because..

Hidden among the bona fide terms are three fakes: proper numbers, subjective scaling and declarative functions.

They're fakes as part of the test to determine who falsely claims they know these terms.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:15 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Proper numbers, subjective scaling, and declarative functions.


Good call, subjective scaling and declarative functions could replace the word BS to a degree - though they're fake as part of the test so maybe that's why chosen.


Yea, the quote said that. I thought the poster I replied to was saying they were going to learn that fake math in year 11.
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Memeosan
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Postby Memeosan » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:15 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Memeosan wrote:
Never heard of "Subjective scaling" and "declarative functions" in my entire high-school career.


You wouldn't because..

Hidden among the bona fide terms are three fakes: proper numbers, subjective scaling and declarative functions.

They're fakes as part of the test to determine who falsely claims they know these terms.


Oh, I see now. I was a-bit confused until you mentioned that these were ACTUALLY fake mathematical terms. :)

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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:16 pm

I think they're having fun with the date and some studies with odd titles.
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Memeosan
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Postby Memeosan » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:17 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
Good call, subjective scaling and declarative functions could replace the word BS to a degree - though they're fake as part of the test so maybe that's why chosen.


Yea, the quote said that. I thought the poster I replied to was saying they were going to learn that fake math in year 11.


I should've made the post more clear, I apologise for any confusion.

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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:20 pm

Memeosan wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Yea, the quote said that. I thought the poster I replied to was saying they were going to learn that fake math in year 11.


I should've made the post more clear, I apologise for any confusion.


No, it's probably bad of me to have assumed you were talking about the fake stuff when the quote you posted mentioned they were fake.
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:20 pm

Valrifell wrote:I think they're having fun with the date and some studies with odd titles.


Yeah, I'm wondering if it feels like fake news but actually isn't in some sort of post-modern take on April Fools.. the quoted person at the end seems real too.. http://psychology.wfu.edu/about-the-dep ... etrocelli/

I wonder if it's designed for people to call it fake when it actually isn't.

Unless I've blindly missed something.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:22 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Valrifell wrote:I think they're having fun with the date and some studies with odd titles.


Yeah, I'm wondering if it feels like fake news but actually isn't in some sort of post-modern take on April Fools.. the quoted person at the end seems real too.. http://psychology.wfu.edu/about-the-dep ... etrocelli/

I wonder if it's designed for people to call it fake when it actually isn't.

Unless I've blindly missed something.


It's either an elaborate ruse or an ironic April Fool's joke where the joke is you think there's a joke.
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Northwest Slobovia
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Postby Northwest Slobovia » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:37 pm

Valrifell wrote:It's either an elaborate ruse or an ironic April Fool's joke where the joke is you think there's a joke.

Yes, probably the latter.
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:42 pm

Northwest Slobovia wrote:
Valrifell wrote:It's either an elaborate ruse or an ironic April Fool's joke where the joke is you think there's a joke.

Yes, probably the latter.


My other thought is it's an example of AI generated fake news. I'm sure I saw a recent article on this, where it scrapes the net for viable links and generates a false story that looks real. I mean there's not much of any substance here, no link to the actual study for example, just links and quotes that could be about anything.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6129 ... gibberish/
Last edited by Bombadil on Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

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