NATION

PASSWORD

Silly Ideas: Allowing Foreigners to Vote in the U.S Election

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Benuty
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37330
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Silly Ideas: Allowing Foreigners to Vote in the U.S Election

Postby Benuty » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:36 pm

America should allow other countries to vote in the 2020 election
This is a country which calls itself 'leader of the Free World' and has huge global influence in terms of foreign policy and economics. Now that Trump won't acknowledge basic things like climate change, it's time other countries had a say


Clémence Michallon
New York
@Clemence_Mcl

I was nine years old when I first seriously pondered the result of a US presidential election. It was 2000 and my father suggested we bet on who would win the 2000 vote – George W Bush or Al Gore. In the kitchen of our apartment in the Paris suburbs, I bet a piece of gum that it would be Gore. Two months later, the Supreme Court decided otherwise, and I didn’t realise until many years later how close I had come to being right.

Perhaps that’s when it originated: the idea that maybe other countries shouldn’t just be left wringing their hands every four years and waiting to see who US citizens had chosen to appoint as (to speak like a White House staffer on Scandal) the leader of the Free World.

And perhaps that seed of an idea continued to gestate in 2004, when we waited to find out whether John Kerry would deprive George W Bush of a second term; then in 2008, when T-shirts bearing Barack Obama’s red and blue “Hope” poster started cropping up on the streets of the French capital; and again in 2012, when we learned the names of his Republican challengers.


Then, of course, came November 2016, by which time I had moved from my native France to the US. I came home from work at approximately four the morning after the election and spent an hour or two on the phone with my mother (it was mid-morning in Paris) talking about Donald Trump’s ascent to power and what it meant for America as well as for the world.

One election after the next, we have seen how much the results of the US presidential vote impact not just the 50 states, but the rest of the planet too. And if the future of foreign countries is shaped to a significant extent by what goes on on US Election Day, shouldn’t they get a say in who gets to lead the most powerful nation in the world for the next four years?

In other words: shouldn’t foreign countries have a right to vote in the US presidential election?

I know, I know. The idea sounds so absurd, so outrageous that it’s hard to know where to begin your rebuttal. I have floated it around, timidly, in bars and at various dinner parties over the years, and let me tell you – it’s hard to get people to agree with me. And I get it: it’s never been done. I will probably never be done. But last week, a terrorist killed 50 people in two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand. The alleged gunman, who had referred to himself as a white nationalist, viewed Donald Trump as “a symbol of renewed white identity”. So, yes, I think it’s high time to acknowledge the fact that what happens in the US has immense, tangible consequences on the rest of the world, and I am tired of crossing my fingers hoping that American voters will do the right thing.

I remember the Iraq war debate, and how George W Bush expressed his disappointment at my country and others for deciding not to align with US forces – while insisting that he was “not mad” we had decided to opt out of the invasion. I remember our collective bewilderment at the term “freedom fries”, and I remember lacking clarity on some of the details, on account of being 11 years old at the time. But the feeling that the US, more than any other nation, shapes our collective future has only grown clearer and stronger since.


Perhaps it helps to imagine America as the pot in which tomorrow’s ideas are brewed, for better or worse. Perhaps it helps, too, to look at the more tangible signs of how US politics contribute to shaping all of our lives. The most convincing example may be global warming, and Donald Trump’s overt skepticism when it comes to climate change. In January this year, the president of the world’s most powerful nation infamously tweeted: "In the beautiful Midwest, windchill temperatures are reaching minus 60 degrees, the coldest ever recorded. In coming days, expected to get even colder. People can't last outside even for minutes. What the hell is going on with Global Waming [sic]? Please come back fast, we need you!"
It goes without saying that whatever the US does or does not do to limit the effects of global warming impacts every single being, human or otherwise, on this planet.

Then comes the economy: in June last year, we were warned that tensions between the US and its main trading partners could precipitate global trade turmoil similar in scale to the 2008 financial crisis. Whoever gets to sit in the Oval Office, then, plays a major role in shaping the state of our wallets as well as the state of the planet. Is it really that outrageous that people around the world might want to have a say on who runs the show?

I am, of course, aware that the US is extremely unlikely to go along with my idea. This isn’t a country that’s particularly known for avidly seeking external input. And of course, there’s the idea that the right to vote is intrinsically tied to residence, and that those who don’t live in a given country aren’t qualified to make a call on what goes in said country.

Except things are more complicated, and more nuanced than that. Take, for example, the idea that living in a country is a condition to having the right to vote there. Permanent residents such as myself, also known as green card holders (also known as people who aren’t US citizens but live and work in the US full-time) pay the same income tax as US citizens, but don’t get to vote. Naturally, US citizens (like citizens of many other countries) still get to vote for their president even if they permanently move to a different country. All this to say: there is an established disequilibrium between who gets to vote in the US presidential election and who arguably has the most skin in the game.

How would it work, then? If the US were to entertain the possibility of letting foreigners participate in the presidential vote (and again, I’m not holding my breath), how would we make it happen? Does each foreign country get the same weight as each of the 50 states? Surely, that would be giving too much weight to the outside world. Do we restrict the vote to member states of NATO and/or historical allies? This seems slightly more realistic – as realistic as it gets in this purely hypothetical scenario – but also somewhat unfair to those whose voices would be left out.


I have clearly disclosed my status as a French citizen, so I know the question will be raised: how would I react if someone proposed to let other countries vote in the French presidential election? Well, France is currently about five spots behind the US in the ranking of the world’s most powerful nations, and its GDP is more than seven times lower. But sure, should France ever have the kind of political and cultural influence the US currently yields, then I’d be inclined to let others have a say. In fact, I might even vote in favor of it.


Source: America should allow other countries to vote in the 2020 election

Opinion:
As one Redditor noted in their response such a status would open up an absolute diplomatic nightmare if the citizens of other nations voted. You would essentially have all the major members of the United Nations Security Council now legally having a say in the United States, and if a major "voting" bloc suddenly had a secessionist issue it would put us in a bad position. I would rather the United States not be beholden to non-citizens voting because it, in essence, makes the very idea of nationhood a bit complicated. So my opinion is that this is beyond ridiculous not just because it isn't practical, but because it would be an absolute nightmare to administer and enforce.


Discussion: What say you oh unleavened, and leavened survivors of NSG? What do you think of the opinion pieces applicability beyond the realm of a novel or weird dystopic science fiction film?
Last edited by Benuty on Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity. Please be aware my posts in NSG, and P2TM are separate.

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 112541
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:39 pm

How do you think Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump in 2016? But seriously, no. Voting is a privilege for citizens. I wouldn't expect to be allowed to vote in Ireland's elections if I lived there as a resident alien, for example, there's no reason to allow resident Irishmen here to vote in ours.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:40 pm

We could trade it for Americans to be able to vote in every other country’s elections. With 100m regular voters, wed’d effectively turn all but 12 or 13 countries into vassal states.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Mtwara
Diplomat
 
Posts: 612
Founded: Aug 31, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Mtwara » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:41 pm

I am up for this if I can vote in Chinese elections, too.
Economic Left/Right: -4.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.56

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163861
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:42 pm

It's a fun idea and I like it.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

User avatar
The Galactic Liberal Democracy
Minister
 
Posts: 2518
Founded: Jun 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:43 pm

The Chinese will win 2020! Jinping ftw!
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 112541
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:44 pm

Ifreann wrote:It's a fun idea and I like it.

I knew you would. :p
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:45 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Galloism wrote:We could trade it for Americans to be able to vote in every other country’s elections. With 100m regular voters, wed’d effectively turn all but 12 or 13 countries into vassal states.

WAIT!
LIKE UK!
OH GOD THE IRONY!

This may have crossed my mind.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:45 pm

If we can also vote in other country's elections then sure. I look forward to helping kick Trudeau and Obrador out of office.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:47 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:The Chinese will win 2020! Jinping ftw!

Eh limit it to NATO.

Get ready for President John Oliver.

I’m ready for President John Oliver.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:47 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:The Chinese will win 2020! Jinping ftw!

Eh limit it to NATO.

Get ready for President John Oliver.

"Why doesn't Congress agree with me? It's the current year!"
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
Aclion
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6249
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Aclion » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:48 pm

Under this arrangement elections would basically be a game of competing between Chinese and Indian interests.
Mtwara wrote:I am up for this if I can vote in Chinese elections, too.

Yes. all people should have the right and duty to support our glorious party.
A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. - James Madison.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163861
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:49 pm

Farnhamia wrote:How do you think Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump in 2016? But seriously, no. Voting is a privilege for citizens. I wouldn't expect to be allowed to vote in Ireland's elections if I lived there as a resident alien, for example, there's no reason to allow resident Irishmen here to vote in ours.

Being Irish I would actually be allowed to vote in elections in other countries if I lived there, even without being a citizen.


Yusseria wrote:If we can also vote in other country's elections then sure. I look forward to helping kick Trudeau and Obrador out of office.

Is your life impacted by the policies of the governments of Canada or Mexico?
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

User avatar
Valentine Z
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13018
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Valentine Z » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:49 pm

I thought this was an April Fools thread, like we share silly ideas...

I guess not. This was actually suggested and was real as you and I.
Val's Stuff. ♡ ^_^ ♡ For You
If you are reading my sig, I want you to have the best day ever ! You are worth it, do not let anyone get you down !
Glory to De Geweldige Sierlijke Katachtige Utopia en Zijne Autonome Machten ov Valentine Z !
(✿◠‿◠) ☆ \(^_^)/ ☆

Issues Thread Photography Stuff Project: Save F7. Stats Analysis

The Sixty! Valentian Stories! Gwen's Adventures!

• Never trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.
• World Map is a cat playing with Australia.
Let Fate sort it out.

User avatar
Benuty
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37330
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:49 pm

Ifreann wrote:It's a fun idea and I like it.

I mean its one thing to maybe want naturalized citizens to run for president since at least that is feasible. If I recall there was an attempt albeit failed to get that changed so Arnold Schwarzennegar could run for the White House.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity. Please be aware my posts in NSG, and P2TM are separate.

User avatar
The Archregimancy
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 30584
Founded: Aug 01, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:50 pm

I think there's an argument that legal permanent residents with a Green Card who are of voting age (which, truth in advertising, described me for most of the period 1987-1996) should be allowed a vote in state and local elections.

I would not be in favour for federal elections.


Galloism wrote:We could trade it for Americans to be able to vote in every other country’s elections. With 100m regular voters, wed’d effectively turn all but 12 or 13 countries into vassal states.


Join the Commonwealth - and the United States would surely be eligible - and you can vote in our elections if you live here.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:50 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:How do you think Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump in 2016? But seriously, no. Voting is a privilege for citizens. I wouldn't expect to be allowed to vote in Ireland's elections if I lived there as a resident alien, for example, there's no reason to allow resident Irishmen here to vote in ours.

Being Irish I would actually be allowed to vote in elections in other countries if I lived there, even without being a citizen.


Yusseria wrote:If we can also vote in other country's elections then sure. I look forward to helping kick Trudeau and Obrador out of office.

Is your life impacted by the policies of the governments of Canada or Mexico?

Um, yes.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:51 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:How do you think Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump in 2016? But seriously, no. Voting is a privilege for citizens. I wouldn't expect to be allowed to vote in Ireland's elections if I lived there as a resident alien, for example, there's no reason to allow resident Irishmen here to vote in ours.

Being Irish I would actually be allowed to vote in elections in other countries if I lived there, even without being a citizen.


Yusseria wrote:If we can also vote in other country's elections then sure. I look forward to helping kick Trudeau and Obrador out of office.

Is your life impacted by the policies of the governments of Canada or Mexico?

They're our two biggest trade partners so yeah.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
Benuty
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37330
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:52 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:I thought this was an April Fools thread, like we share silly ideas...

I guess not. This was actually suggested and was real as you and I.

Hence why I'm not taking it seriously but am offering somewhat series proposals to make it more realistic.

Shouldn't happen though.

I mean the writer of the article is, in fact, serious which is kind of sad. If they had waited just a few more days to release their opinion article it might have garnered some appropriate chuckles on April first, but I guess not.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity. Please be aware my posts in NSG, and P2TM are separate.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163861
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:52 pm

Galloism wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Being Irish I would actually be allowed to vote in elections in other countries if I lived there, even without being a citizen.



Is your life impacted by the policies of the governments of Canada or Mexico?

Um, yes.

Then vote on, you crazy diamond.


Yusseria wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Being Irish I would actually be allowed to vote in elections in other countries if I lived there, even without being a citizen.



Is your life impacted by the policies of the governments of Canada or Mexico?

They're our two biggest trade partners so yeah.

See above.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

User avatar
Mtwara
Diplomat
 
Posts: 612
Founded: Aug 31, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Mtwara » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:53 pm

Aclion wrote:Under this arrangement elections would basically be a game of competing between Chinese and Indian interests.
Mtwara wrote:I am up for this if I can vote in Chinese elections, too.

Yes. all people should have the right and duty to support our glorious party.

They shouldn't worry, I'll just vote Communist every time.
Economic Left/Right: -4.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.56

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:54 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Galloism wrote:Um, yes.

Then vote on, you crazy diamond.


Yusseria wrote:They're our two biggest trade partners so yeah.

See above.

Easiest way to do that would be by annexing Mexico and Canada so I wholeheartedly agree with you.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
Benuty
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37330
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:55 pm

Yusseria wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Then vote on, you crazy diamond.



See above.

Easiest way to do that would be by annexing Mexico and Canada so I wholeheartedly agree with you.

I mean when it came to Mexico we almost did that had the anti-slavery faction in Congress not gone, and trolled people.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity. Please be aware my posts in NSG, and P2TM are separate.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:57 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Galloism wrote:Um, yes.

Then vote on, you crazy diamond.

They keep calling it fraud and yelling in another language when I try.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
The Archregimancy
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 30584
Founded: Aug 01, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:59 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:I think there's an argument that legal permanent residents with a Green Card who are of voting age (which, truth in advertising, described me for most of the period 1987-1996) should be allowed a vote in state and local elections.

I would not be in favour for federal elections.




Join the Commonwealth - and the United States would surely be eligible - and you can vote in our elections if you live here.

Wait.

Commonwealth countries can vote in other countries's elections?


Not quite.

Citizens of Commonwealth countries who are resident in the UK can vote in UK elections (as can Irish citizens).

This right does not automatically transfer.

So, for example, Mrs Arch holds an Australian passport, so can vote in UK elections. However, I couldn't vote in Australian elections when I lived in Australia.

Nonetheless, if the United States were to join the Commonwealth, its citizens would be eligible to vote in our elections provided they were resident in the UK.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jubiloso, Kostane, Likhinia, New Temecula

Advertisement

Remove ads