Is Fascism Inevitable in the Future of the West?

[Purgatio]

Or fascists. They shouldn't be attacking anyone. We have a centralised justice system for a reason.

... A centralized justice system that specifically guards fascists while they're waving tiki torches and shouting slurs against every single minority in the country while attacking non-fascist protests. Yeah I'm not gonna leave that to the centralized justice system.

Yeah because generally, waving tiki torches is not against the law. Neither is shouting slurs unless, under the circumstances, it can be construed as criminal intimidation or harassment against a specific person or victim. But saying the N-word at a rally, in abstract, really shouldn't be something we throw people in prison for. If a neo-Nazi harasses or intimidates a minority, I want them to go to jail. If an ANTIFA thug harasses or intimidates someone he thinks is a neo-Nazi, I want the ANTIFA thug to go to jail. That's how the rule of law and equality under the law operates. General rules which apply to all and which are interpreted and applied in a uniform and harmonious fashion from a centralised institution which is the final decider and interpreter. Anything else is disorder and anarchy.

[Purgatio]

Or fascists. They shouldn't be attacking anyone. We have a centralised justice system for a reason.

Not everything that's morally correct is legally correct. As it is, the justice system (at least in America) does nothing to prevent the rise of Fascism and its shittier offspring, like Neo-Nazism.

The point of a liberal democracy is that the State is not there to actively suppress the rise of a political ideology, the people and the public decide what ideology they want to gravitate to within the discussion of concepts in the free marketplace of ideas. Its not the role of the State in a politically-pluralistic liberal democracy to pick political winners and losers.

[Purgatio]

This is overkill in the extreme. You expect me to believe that unless ANTIFA punches Nazis, smashes windows, cuts tyres and throws Molotov cocktails in Berkeley, Nazis are gonna take power in the US and start rounding up Muslims and Hispanics into concentration camps and the only way to save their lives is by going around inflicting violence on people you disagree with? Yeah, no, sorry, talk about using an anvil to smash an M & M.

You literally have a Fasces on your flag. Why should we trust anything you have to say on how to oppose Fascism?

This is an ad hominem in the extreme. For the record, I'm not a fascist or a neo-Nazi just because I have a fasces on my flag (I'm not even white), I just think the flag looks nice. Please respond to my argument rather than attacking my flag and making unfounded insinuations about my political beliefs.

[Torrocca]

Not everything that's morally correct is legally correct. As it is, the justice system (at least in America) does nothing to prevent the rise of Fascism and its shittier offspring, like Neo-Nazism.

The point of a liberal democracy is that the State is not there to actively suppress the rise of a political ideology, the people and the public decide what ideology they want to gravitate to within the discussion of concepts in the free marketplace of ideas. Its not the role of the State in a politically-pluralistic liberal democracy to pick political winners and losers.

And I genuinely do not give much of a fuck about that in the case of Fascism and its derivatives. It's a moral imperative for a free and just society to actively prevent exactly that from rising to power, regardless of the legality of such an act. To do otherwise is what kills free and just societies.

[Griemvarant]

Or fascists. They shouldn't be attacking anyone. We have a centralised justice system for a reason.

... A centralized justice system that specifically guards fascists while they're waving tiki torches and shouting slurs against every single minority in the country while attacking non-fascist protests. Yeah I'm not gonna leave that to the centralized justice system.

I'm sorry, but you really remember it that way? The "non-fascists" didn't have permits and the police purposely drove the fascists into Antifa where the permitted demonstrators were promptly attacked. Hell, even the notorious "car attack" was a guy who was surrounded by people beating on the car, including at least one person who later on social media bragged about brandishing a gun. It's nowhere near as black-and-white as any of the Antifa riots were, yet it's amazing just how willing people are to believe what's shoveled to them rather than doing any independent research.

[Purgatio]

The point of a liberal democracy is that the State is not there to actively suppress the rise of a political ideology, the people and the public decide what ideology they want to gravitate to within the discussion of concepts in the free marketplace of ideas. Its not the role of the State in a politically-pluralistic liberal democracy to pick political winners and losers.

And I genuinely do not give much of a fuck about that in the case of Fascism and its derivatives. It's a moral imperative for a free and just society to actively prevent exactly that from rising to power, regardless of the legality of such an act. To do otherwise is what kills free and just societies.

This is ridiculously fatalistic. There are ways to deal with fascism without punching a group of people you've arbitrarily singled out as undeserving of freedom of association or a right to enter public spaces and not feel unsafe or fear physical injury. Again, where's the factual foundation for the wild claim that without ANTIFA violence, the US would be a neo-Nazi, proto-fascist state today, rounding up Arabs and Hispanics in concentration camps and killing them by the millions.

[Torrocca]

And I genuinely do not give much of a fuck about that in the case of Fascism and its derivatives. It's a moral imperative for a free and just society to actively prevent exactly that from rising to power, regardless of the legality of such an act. To do otherwise is what kills free and just societies.

This is ridiculously fatalistic. There are ways to deal with fascism without punching a group of people you've arbitrarily singled out as undeserving of freedom of association or a right to enter public spaces and not feel unsafe or fear physical injury.

>Implying it's arbitrary

Again, where's the factual foundation for the wild claim that without ANTIFA violence, the US would be a neo-Nazi, proto-fascist state today, rounding up Arabs and Hispanics in concentration camps and killing them by the millions.

Where's the factual foundation that America has legal safeguards to prevent the rise of a Fascist government?

[Ifreann]

It's supporting free speech in that keeping Nazis out of power by thwarting them when they try to recruit and promote themselves and organise, even if that means punching some of them, will keep Nazis from eliminating free speech entirely. Kinda like preserving life by shooting someone dead.

This is overkill in the extreme. You expect me to believe that unless ANTIFA punches Nazis, smashes windows, cuts tyres and throws Molotov cocktails in Berkeley, Nazis are gonna take power in the US and start rounding up Muslims and Hispanics into concentration camps and the only way to save their lives is by going around inflicting violence on people you disagree with?

No, I don't expect you to believe that. Anti-fascist action is one thing keeping fascists from building fascism, but that doesn't mean that every single criminal act is justified and necessary or that Nazis will take power tomorrow in the absence of anti-fascists.

You may also wish to note that there is no such group as "ANTIFA". Antifa isn't an organisation, it's a political philosophy of opposing fascism by any means necessary. There is no Antifa High Command or official Twitter account or Facebook page. Anti-fascists organise locally in response to local issues, and some groups might call themselves antifa or have that in their name, or they might not. Additionally, while I'm sure you hear a lot about antifa supersoldiers burning Berkeley to the ground on a weekly basis, anti-fascist action isn't always violent. More often it entails tearing down fascist posters or calling a hotel to tell them that the people who've booked Conference Room C are neo-Nazis, or regular counter-protesting. Some anti-fascists go undercover in fascist organisations to spy on them, and one person spent a year undercover in Europe and America and was even pepper-sprayed by other anti-fascists at Charlottesville, because he was there with the fascists.

[Purgatio]

This is ridiculously fatalistic. There are ways to deal with fascism without punching a group of people you've arbitrarily singled out as undeserving of freedom of association or a right to enter public spaces and not feel unsafe or fear physical injury.

>Implying it's arbitrary

Again, where's the factual foundation for the wild claim that without ANTIFA violence, the US would be a neo-Nazi, proto-fascist state today, rounding up Arabs and Hispanics in concentration camps and killing them by the millions.

Where's the factual foundation that America has legal safeguards to prevent the rise of a Fascist government?

I'm obviously not referirng to the Charlottesville protestors, I'm talking about examples like ANTIFA smashing a Marines recruitment center's window (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePHSPdxYIqQ) or attacking a KCL event with Sargon of Akkad (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/06/violence-breaks-self-proclaimed-antifascists-shut-alt-right/) or attacking the GOP headquarters in NYC (https://bongino.com/breaking-antifa-attacks-gop-headquarters-in-nyc-warns-merely-the-beginning/)

This is why the rule of law is necessary. Essentially and indispensable to a civilised society. Once you allow a tiny number of people to behave like they are above the law, like they have a reserved right to self-judge and self-determine, for themselves, as judge, jury, executioner, without any transparency or due process, who they arbitrarily think deserves violence and when to inflict violence, don't be surprised if they start coming after you next. You're worried about the US becoming a lawless authoritarian fascist state? I can't imagine anything more lawless than a group of thugs going around attacking whoever they arbitrarily determine, in their view, based on their own capricious standards, who is 'fascist' and deserves to be punched in the face.

[Purgatio]

This is overkill in the extreme. You expect me to believe that unless ANTIFA punches Nazis, smashes windows, cuts tyres and throws Molotov cocktails in Berkeley, Nazis are gonna take power in the US and start rounding up Muslims and Hispanics into concentration camps and the only way to save their lives is by going around inflicting violence on people you disagree with?

No, I don't expect you to believe that. Anti-fascist action is one thing keeping fascists from building fascism, but that doesn't mean that every single criminal act is justified and necessary or that Nazis will take power tomorrow in the absence of anti-fascists.

You may also wish to note that there is no such group as "ANTIFA". Antifa isn't an organisation, it's a political philosophy of opposing fascism by any means necessary. There is no Antifa High Command or official Twitter account or Facebook page. Anti-fascists organise locally in response to local issues, and some groups might call themselves antifa or have that in their name, or they might not. Additionally, while I'm sure you hear a lot about antifa supersoldiers burning Berkeley to the ground on a weekly basis, anti-fascist action isn't always violent. More often it entails tearing down fascist posters or calling a hotel to tell them that the people who've booked Conference Room C are neo-Nazis, or regular counter-protesting. Some anti-fascists go undercover in fascist organisations to spy on them, and one person spent a year undercover in Europe and America and was even pepper-sprayed by other anti-fascists at Charlottesville, because he was there with the fascists.

That ANTIFA isn't a singular organisation isn't material to my argument that they are a dangerous force within American society and democracy. Yes, peaceful action like protesting or pressuring a company not to host a fascist platform is perfectly legal and should be legal in a civilised society, but the fact remains we have a group of people who believe they are above the law, believe they have the self-arrogated right to judge and determine for themselves who is fascist, who deserves to be punched, and what violence, infliction of injury and property damage is justified to achieve those ends. That is not a phenomenon which should be celebrated as helping to combat fascism, that is a phenomenon that sets a very dangerous precedent to set in the American political system.

[Torrocca]

>Implying it's arbitrary

Where's the factual foundation that America has legal safeguards to prevent the rise of a Fascist government?

I'm obviously not referirng to the Charlottesville protestors, I'm talking about examples like ANTIFA smashing a Marines recruitment center's window (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePHSPdxYIqQ) or attacking a KCL event with Sargon of Akkad (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/06/violence-breaks-self-proclaimed-antifascists-shut-alt-right/) or attacking the GOP headquarters in NYC (https://bongino.com/breaking-antifa-attacks-gop-headquarters-in-nyc-warns-merely-the-beginning/)

Sure.

This is why the rule of law is necessary. Essentially and indispensable to a civilised society. Once you allow a tiny number of people to behave like they are above the law, like they have a reserved right to self-judge and self-determine, for themselves, as judge, jury, executioner, without any transparency or due process, who they arbitrarily think deserves violence and when to inflict violence, don't be surprised if they start coming after you next.

"First they came for the Nazis, and I fucking applauded because fuck the Nazis.

Then they came for the Fascists, and I cheered because fuck the Fascists too.

Then they didn't come for me because I was neither of those things."

Hmm, I don't remember this anti-Nazi poem going this way!

You're worried about the US becoming a lawless authoritarian fascist state?

That's a big ol' contradiction right there, fam. The Holocaust was legal in Nazi Germany.

I can't imagine anything more lawless than a group of thugs going around attacking whoever they arbitrarily determine, in their view, based on their own capricious standards, who is 'fascist' and deserves to be punched in the face.

Lawlessness =/= moralless.

[Purgatio]

I'm obviously not referirng to the Charlottesville protestors, I'm talking about examples like ANTIFA smashing a Marines recruitment center's window (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePHSPdxYIqQ) or attacking a KCL event with Sargon of Akkad (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/06/violence-breaks-self-proclaimed-antifascists-shut-alt-right/) or attacking the GOP headquarters in NYC (https://bongino.com/breaking-antifa-attacks-gop-headquarters-in-nyc-warns-merely-the-beginning/)

Sure.

This is why the rule of law is necessary. Essentially and indispensable to a civilised society. Once you allow a tiny number of people to behave like they are above the law, like they have a reserved right to self-judge and self-determine, for themselves, as judge, jury, executioner, without any transparency or due process, who they arbitrarily think deserves violence and when to inflict violence, don't be surprised if they start coming after you next.

"First they came for the Nazis, and I fucking applauded because fuck the Nazis.

Then they came for the Fascists, and I cheered because fuck the Fascists too.

Then they didn't come for me because I was neither of those things."

Hmm, I don't remember this anti-Nazi poem going this way!

You're worried about the US becoming a lawless authoritarian fascist state?

That's a big ol' contradiction right there, fam. The Holocaust was legal in Nazi Germany.

I can't imagine anything more lawless than a group of thugs going around attacking whoever they arbitrarily determine, in their view, based on their own capricious standards, who is 'fascist' and deserves to be punched in the face.

Lawlessness =/= moralless.

Quoting an old anti-Nazi poem is not a substitute for an argument. ANTIFA thugs shouldn't have the right to determine who is a fascist and inflict violence on that basis, as the examples I cited clearly showed these ANTIFA thugs appear to have a very porous and vague definition of a 'fascist' which generally refers to anyone whose views they do not agree with. So, yes, I'm concerned that if this continues the US will cease to be a country governed by law but by arbitrary opinion and thug-motivated violence.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Where's the factual foundation that America has legal safeguards to prevent the rise of a Fascist government?

The Constitution here I would argue is more stringent than the one that Weimar had. Good luck getting something like the Enabling Act of 1933 passed in our system of government. You'd need 2/3rds of both Houses of Congress and 3/4ths of the state legislatures. We also didn't grant the presidency the right to suspend the entire constitution, so good luck passing something like the Reichstag Fire Decree.

[Genivaria]

Where's the factual foundation that America has legal safeguards to prevent the rise of a Fascist government?

The Constitution here I would argue is more stringent than the one that Weimar had. Good luck getting something like the Enabling Act of 1933 passed in our system of government. You'd need 2/3rds of both Houses of Congress and 3/4ths of the state legislatures. We also didn't grant the presidency the right to suspend the entire constitution, so good lick passing something like Reichstag Fire Decree.

There's also the fact that the US military swear an oath of loyalty to the Constitution and the US, not to the President.

[Ifreann]

... A centralized justice system that specifically guards fascists while they're waving tiki torches and shouting slurs against every single minority in the country while attacking non-fascist protests. Yeah I'm not gonna leave that to the centralized justice system.

I'm sorry, but you really remember it that way? The "non-fascists" didn't have permits and the police purposely drove the fascists into Antifa where the permitted demonstrators were promptly attacked.

Entirely false.

Hell, even the notorious "car attack" was a guy who was surrounded by people beating on the car,

That's a lie, and the murderer in question has been convicted and sentenced to life in prison for murder.

including at least one person who later on social media bragged about brandishing a gun.

Bullshit.

It's nowhere near as black-and-white as any of the Antifa riots were, yet it's amazing just how willing people are to believe what's shoveled to them rather than doing any independent research.

Clearly your independent research involves believing far-right conspiracy theories uncritically.

---

No, I don't expect you to believe that. Anti-fascist action is one thing keeping fascists from building fascism, but that doesn't mean that every single criminal act is justified and necessary or that Nazis will take power tomorrow in the absence of anti-fascists.

You may also wish to note that there is no such group as "ANTIFA". Antifa isn't an organisation, it's a political philosophy of opposing fascism by any means necessary. There is no Antifa High Command or official Twitter account or Facebook page. Anti-fascists organise locally in response to local issues, and some groups might call themselves antifa or have that in their name, or they might not. Additionally, while I'm sure you hear a lot about antifa supersoldiers burning Berkeley to the ground on a weekly basis, anti-fascist action isn't always violent. More often it entails tearing down fascist posters or calling a hotel to tell them that the people who've booked Conference Room C are neo-Nazis, or regular counter-protesting. Some anti-fascists go undercover in fascist organisations to spy on them, and one person spent a year undercover in Europe and America and was even pepper-sprayed by other anti-fascists at Charlottesville, because he was there with the fascists.

That ANTIFA isn't a singular organisation isn't material to my argument that they are a dangerous force within American society and democracy.

Sure, I was just dropping some knowledge on you. You can stop writing it in all-caps like it's an acronym for something, btw.

Yes, peaceful action like protesting or pressuring a company not to host a fascist platform is perfectly legal and should be legal in a civilised society, but the fact remains we have a group of people who believe they are above the law, believe they have the self-arrogated right to judge and determine for themselves who is fascist, who deserves to be punched, and what violence, infliction of injury and property damage is justified to achieve those ends. That is not a phenomenon which should be celebrated as helping to combat fascism, that is a phenomenon that sets a very dangerous precedent to set in the American political system.

I wouldn't be too worried. If there's no fash around for them to bash they'll just go back to being regular lefties.

[Torrocca]

Sure.



"First they came for the Nazis, and I fucking applauded because fuck the Nazis.

Then they came for the Fascists, and I cheered because fuck the Fascists too.

Then they didn't come for me because I was neither of those things."

Hmm, I don't remember this anti-Nazi poem going this way!



That's a big ol' contradiction right there, fam. The Holocaust was legal in Nazi Germany.



Lawlessness =/= moralless.

Quoting an old anti-Nazi poem is not a substitute for an argument.

Nah, but it's sure relevant when you snap out hot takes such as, "if AntiFa targets Fascists, they'll get [me, as in me, Torra] next!!1!"

ANTIFA thugs shouldn't have the right to determine who is a fascist and inflict violence on that basis, as the examples I cited clearly showed these ANTIFA thugs appear to have a very porous and vague definition of a 'fascist' which generally refers to anyone whose views they do not agree with. So, yes, I'm concerned that if this continues the US will cease to be a country governed by law but by arbitrary opinion and thug-motivated violence.

Again, legality =/= morality.

[Purgatio]

I'm sorry, but you really remember it that way? The "non-fascists" didn't have permits and the police purposely drove the fascists into Antifa where the permitted demonstrators were promptly attacked.

Entirely false.

Hell, even the notorious "car attack" was a guy who was surrounded by people beating on the car,

That's a lie, and the murderer in question has been convicted and sentenced to life in prison for murder.

including at least one person who later on social media bragged about brandishing a gun.

Bullshit.

It's nowhere near as black-and-white as any of the Antifa riots were, yet it's amazing just how willing people are to believe what's shoveled to them rather than doing any independent research.

Clearly your independent research involves believing far-right conspiracy theories uncritically.

---

That ANTIFA isn't a singular organisation isn't material to my argument that they are a dangerous force within American society and democracy.

Sure, I was just dropping some knowledge on you. You can stop writing it in all-caps like it's an acronym for something, btw.

Yes, peaceful action like protesting or pressuring a company not to host a fascist platform is perfectly legal and should be legal in a civilised society, but the fact remains we have a group of people who believe they are above the law, believe they have the self-arrogated right to judge and determine for themselves who is fascist, who deserves to be punched, and what violence, infliction of injury and property damage is justified to achieve those ends. That is not a phenomenon which should be celebrated as helping to combat fascism, that is a phenomenon that sets a very dangerous precedent to set in the American political system.

I wouldn't be too worried. If there's no fash around for them to bash they'll just go back to being regular lefties.

You get that not every person that's been attacked by ANTIFA has actually been fascist right? These are just people ANTIFA arbitrarily deems to be fascist, in their personal opinion

[Purgatio]

Quoting an old anti-Nazi poem is not a substitute for an argument.

Nah, but it's sure relevant when you snap out hot takes such as, "if AntiFa targets Fascists, they'll get [me, as in me, Torra] next!!1!"

ANTIFA thugs shouldn't have the right to determine who is a fascist and inflict violence on that basis, as the examples I cited clearly showed these ANTIFA thugs appear to have a very porous and vague definition of a 'fascist' which generally refers to anyone whose views they do not agree with. So, yes, I'm concerned that if this continues the US will cease to be a country governed by law but by arbitrary opinion and thug-motivated violence.

Again, legality =/= morality.

Except it does nothing to respond to the concern I cited. You have a group that thinks they have a right to determine for themselves which people deserve protection from physical injury and which don't. Once you endorse that kind of arbitrary violence don't be surprised if you don't have total control over which persons and groups they target as alleged and putative 'fascists' who deserve violence, physical injury and property damage.

[Torrocca]

Nah, but it's sure relevant when you snap out hot takes such as, "if AntiFa targets Fascists, they'll get [me, as in me, Torra] next!!1!"



Again, legality =/= morality.

Except it does nothing to respond to the concern I cited. You have a group that thinks they have a right to determine for themselves which people deserve protection from physical injury and which don't. Once you endorse that kind of arbitrary violence don't be surprised if you don't have total control over which persons and groups they target as alleged and putative 'fascists' who deserve violence, physical injury and property damage.

Sure, AntiFa needs to get better about what it does. I'll concede there.

[Ifreann]

Entirely false.

That's a lie, and the murderer in question has been convicted and sentenced to life in prison for murder.

Bullshit.

Clearly your independent research involves believing far-right conspiracy theories uncritically.

---

Sure, I was just dropping some knowledge on you. You can stop writing it in all-caps like it's an acronym for something, btw.

I wouldn't be too worried. If there's no fash around for them to bash they'll just go back to being regular lefties.

You get that not every person that's been attacked by ANTIFA has actually been fascist right?

I know. Mistakes happen, and obviously any group with a lick of sense will try to avoid that, even if only because anti-fascists beating up the wrong guy is a big PR win for fascists. But before you condemn anti-fascists for sometimes punching the wrong face, consider that the police and military far more regularly do far more violence to the wrong people, very often with zero repercussions. Are they, therefore, not a far greater threat than anti-fascists?

These are just people ANTIFA arbitrarily deems to be fascist, in their personal opinion

Their assessment of who is and isn't fascist is, no offence meant, probably better than yours.

[Purgatio]

You get that not every person that's been attacked by ANTIFA has actually been fascist right?

I know. Mistakes happen, and obviously any group with a lick of sense will try to avoid that, even if only because anti-fascists beating up the wrong guy is a big PR win for fascists. But before you condemn anti-fascists for sometimes punching the wrong face, consider that the police and military far more regularly do far more violence to the wrong people, very often with zero repercussions. Are they, therefore, not a far greater threat than anti-fascists?

These are just people ANTIFA arbitrarily deems to be fascist, in their personal opinion

Their assessment of who is and isn't fascist is, no offence meant, probably better than yours.

Unlike ANTIFA, the police are actually needed. Yes, the police hurt and kill the wrong guy more than ANTIFA, I agree with you there, and I'm very much in favour of police reform to change that (like body cameras, independent DOJ prosecution etc) but I can't very well advocate abolishing the police in response because any civilised society with a legal system needs some body or institution to enforce those laws, so short of advocating for the abolition of law and government itself, unlike with ANTIFA I can't advocate for the police to just fuck off and go away, I can only advocate reforms to make them better.

As for ANTIFA's assessment of who is a fascist, I might not be a fascism-detection expert or anything, but at the very least I know that Mexican-American Marine reservists near a We the People rally (https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2019/01/30/third-man-charged-in-alleged-antifa-assault-of-two-marine-reservists-in-philadelphia/), a US Marine Corps office (https://www.theepochtimes.com/far-left-antifa-captured-on-video-smashing-windows-of-us-marine-corps-during-protest_2616164.html), the Hamilton Crowne Plaza Hotel (https://nypost.com/2017/01/20/anti-trump-protesters-smash-windows-throw-flares-in-dc/), the New York Republican headquarters (https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/12/nyc-gop-headquarters-vandalized/), random police officers and journalists (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/08/13/antifa-protesters-couldnt-find-any-fascists-at-unite-the-right-and-harassed-the-press-instead/) and a Bernie Sanders voter carrying an American flag (https://www.newsweek.com/antifa-violence-portland-bernie-sanders-video-1082072) are clearly, clearly not fascists.

Literally the only possible way for me to be worse at detecting fascists than ANTIFA is if I run out of the house right now, point at random bunnies and kittens, scream 'fascist!' and kick them in the face.

[Major-Tom]

Yes, no, and maybe so. It all depends on the context and situations/values that any certain "Western nation" currently holds. I could never see, say, an Ireland, Norway, or Iceland descending into authoritarianism and fascism - but there are also Western Nations such as Hungary, Poland and the US that are either going through democratic backsliding or are having the framework for this backsliding being set into place.

Edit: I'm referring more to authoritarianism and not actual fascism. Apart from wannabe fascists like Bolsonaro or Salvini, I really don't see a large trend towards full fascist governance anywhere in the west in the near future.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I'm obviously not referirng to the Charlottesville protestors, I'm talking about examples like ANTIFA smashing a Marines recruitment center's window (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePHSPdxYIqQ) or attacking a KCL event with Sargon of Akkad (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/06/violence-breaks-self-proclaimed-antifascists-shut-alt-right/) or attacking the GOP headquarters in NYC (https://bongino.com/breaking-antifa-attacks-gop-headquarters-in-nyc-warns-merely-the-beginning/)

Sure.

This is why the rule of law is necessary. Essentially and indispensable to a civilised society. Once you allow a tiny number of people to behave like they are above the law, like they have a reserved right to self-judge and self-determine, for themselves, as judge, jury, executioner, without any transparency or due process, who they arbitrarily think deserves violence and when to inflict violence, don't be surprised if they start coming after you next.

"First they came for the Nazis, and I fucking applauded because fuck the Nazis.

Then they came for the Fascists, and I cheered because fuck the Fascists too.

Then they didn't come for me because I was neither of those things."

Hmm, I don't remember this anti-Nazi poem going this way!

You're worried about the US becoming a lawless authoritarian fascist state?

That's a big ol' contradiction right there, fam. The Holocaust was legal in Nazi Germany.

I can't imagine anything more lawless than a group of thugs going around attacking whoever they arbitrarily determine, in their view, based on their own capricious standards, who is 'fascist' and deserves to be punched in the face.

Lawlessness =/= moralless.

First they came for the Nazis and I did not speak up because I was not a Nazi.

Then a right wing government was elected which came for the Communists.

Whoops.

[Torrocca]

Sure.



"First they came for the Nazis, and I fucking applauded because fuck the Nazis.

Then they came for the Fascists, and I cheered because fuck the Fascists too.

Then they didn't come for me because I was neither of those things."

Hmm, I don't remember this anti-Nazi poem going this way!



That's a big ol' contradiction right there, fam. The Holocaust was legal in Nazi Germany.



Lawlessness =/= moralless.

First they came for the Nazis and I did not speak up because I was not a Nazi.

Then a right wing government was elected which came for the Communists.

Whoops.

More like it was appointed to power by a broken Republic built in a country where anti-Semitism had been the cultural norm for centuries.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

First they came for the Nazis and I did not speak up because I was not a Nazi.

Then a right wing government was elected which came for the Communists.

Whoops.

More like it was appointed to power by a broken Republic built in a country where anti-Semitism had been the cultural norm for centuries.

What I'm saying is that if you grant government the power to go after Nazis, those granted powers will soon be used to go after Communists as well.