Is Fascism Inevitable in the Future of the West?

[Griemvarant]

Fascism is socialism, just look at its philosophical roots and the backgrounds of its proponents. It is an ideology of collectivism and extreme social change away from the gentry.

Fascism was started by people who hated the progress that liberalism and Marxism brought. Also, they used socialism in a very different way than what it means and were often attacked by actual socialists. Then, they killed the socialists. The socialists won against the fascists at the time.

Marxism brought progress? How? All I've seen are regimes that have to build walls to keep their victims inside while the populace starves but the ruling elites end up richer than ever. Marxism is nothing more than a tool to incite conflict among the masses so that ideologues can seize power and consolidate into iron-fisted tyranny.

Edit: Also, xe/xir/whatever was introduced in the internet by people who wanted to be special, often by furries who wanted to roleplay as hermaphrodites. It's extremely rare to meet someone IRL who uses it (mostly because they're too busy being outraged at everything) but it's still included in a lot of gender-sensitive policies and will be found online.

[North German Realm]

I haven't seen a single person who unironically told people to call them "xi/xir," ever.

You mean xi/xir is an actual thing? Sweet suffering Jesus. Well, just another day in 2019 I suppose. I hope the Mullahs put us out of our misery soon and nuke us.

Fascism was started by people who hated the progress that liberalism and Marxism brought. Also, they used socialism in a very different way than what it means and were often attacked by actual socialists. Then, they killed the socialists. The socialists won against the fascists at the time.

But it was still socialism. It belongs in that collectivist camp. It has nothing to do with traditionalism and conservatism.

Traditionalism and conservatism are generally collectivist too tho.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Fascism is a deliberate attempt to synthesize socialism and reactionary sentiment based on a Hegelian view of discourse.

Cognitive behavioural therapy is a synthesis of cognitive and behavioral psychology, but that doesn't mean it is the same thing as cognitive psychology. So it goes for Fascism.

With those two ingredients, it's no wonder that what we ended up with was so bad.

[Ostroeuropa]

I haven't seen a single person who unironically told people to call them "xi/xir," ever.

You mean xi/xir is an actual thing? Sweet suffering Jesus. Well, just another day in 2019 I suppose. I hope the Mullahs put us out of our misery soon and nuke us.

Fascism was started by people who hated the progress that liberalism and Marxism brought. Also, they used socialism in a very different way than what it means and were often attacked by actual socialists. Then, they killed the socialists. The socialists won against the fascists at the time.

But it was still socialism. It belongs in that collectivist camp. It has nothing to do with traditionalism and conservatism.

It is socialism, traditionalism, and conservatism. That's the point of it.

[Ostroeuropa]

Fascism is a deliberate attempt to synthesize socialism and reactionary sentiment based on a Hegelian view of discourse.

Cognitive behavioural therapy is a synthesis of cognitive and behavioral psychology, but that doesn't mean it is the same thing as cognitive psychology. So it goes for Fascism.

With those two ingredients, it's no wonder that what we ended up with was so bad.

Socialist methods with reactionary goals. Modernism turned Romanticist and so on.

I'd wager a large part of its appeal comes from emotional appeal of this kind of synthesis.

[Griemvarant]

Fascism is a deliberate attempt to synthesize socialism and reactionary sentiment based on a Hegelian view of discourse.

Cognitive behavioural therapy is a synthesis of cognitive and behavioral psychology, but that doesn't mean it is the same thing as cognitive psychology. So it goes for Fascism.

With those two ingredients, it's no wonder that what we ended up with was so bad.

Hegelian dialectics are terrible altogether. One of the worst philosophical conceits in recent memory.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

You mean xi/xir is an actual thing? Sweet suffering Jesus. Well, just another day in 2019 I suppose. I hope the Mullahs put us out of our misery soon and nuke us.

No, I mean it's essentially not an actual thing. The ratio of people using it to make fun of trans people vs actual people who identify with xi/xir pronouns is 10000 to 1.

[Griemvarant]

You mean xi/xir is an actual thing? Sweet suffering Jesus. Well, just another day in 2019 I suppose. I hope the Mullahs put us out of our misery soon and nuke us.

No, I mean it's essentially not an actual thing. The ratio of people using it to make fun of trans people vs actual people who identify with xi/xir pronouns is 10000 to 1.

This is true, but the fact that it exists at all is what allows it to be mocked. That it's defended in a lot of gender-sensitivity programs means it's recognized as legitimate to at least some degree.

[Greater Loegria]

You mean xi/xir is an actual thing? Sweet suffering Jesus. Well, just another day in 2019 I suppose. I hope the Mullahs put us out of our misery soon and nuke us.
But it was still socialism. It belongs in that collectivist camp. It has nothing to do with traditionalism and conservatism.

Traditionalism and conservatism are generally collectivist too tho.

In an organic way.

You mean xi/xir is an actual thing? Sweet suffering Jesus. Well, just another day in 2019 I suppose. I hope the Mullahs put us out of our misery soon and nuke us.

No, I mean it's essentially not an actual thing. The ratio of people using it to make fun of trans people vs actual people who identify with xi/xir pronouns is 10000 to 1.

That's what I thought. Right enough.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

With those two ingredients, it's no wonder that what we ended up with was so bad.

Socialist methods with reactionary goals. Modernism turned Romanticist and so on.

I'd wager a large part of its appeal comes from emotional appeal of this kind of synthesis.

I prefer the appeal of combining Kantian positivism with liberal capitalism.

[Ostroeuropa]

Traditionalism and conservatism are generally collectivist too tho.

In an organic way.

No, I mean it's essentially not an actual thing. The ratio of people using it to make fun of trans people vs actual people who identify with xi/xir pronouns is 10000 to 1.

That's what I thought. Right enough.

There is nothing organic about it. It was imposed by violence and forced on people, then they were indoctrinated into it. See the german peasant rebellions, or land enclosure in the UK, and so on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Peasants%27_War

300,000 deaths for the population of the time is a substantial genocide of the population by aristocrats.

Know what a real organic community looks like?

This.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dithmarschen#History

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

No, I mean it's essentially not an actual thing. The ratio of people using it to make fun of trans people vs actual people who identify with xi/xir pronouns is 10000 to 1.

This is true, but the fact that it exists at all is what allows it to be mocked. That it's defended in a lot of gender-sensitivity programs means it's recognized as legitimate to at least some degree.

Thing is, it barely exists at all. I've not seen a single person unironically use it. And I kinda dislike the idea of a virtually nonexistent phenomenon being used as a cudgel to mock ftm or mtf transgender people.

[The Great-German Empire]

My two cents on this is that in politics, nothing is ever inevitable. Fascism will almost inevitably continue to exist, and it's likely it will return to the media spotlight time and time again whenever mainstream politics get too narrow, and the poor souls who suddenly find themselves to the right of said mainstream get radicalised into outright fascists - as it has happened several times before. I'm pretty confident, however, that fascist groupings will never get any more influence and social sway in a developed Western country than they managed during the Years of Lead in Italy. Groupings marked as 'far-right' nowadays are often a far cry from what you would consider fascist, with the AfD, Trumpian Republicans, FPÖ and UKIP being pretty much entirely 'exiled' mainstream political thinking, the FN and similar more radical parties being only just far enough to the right to be concerning, and only parties like Golden Dawn being comparable to actual fascists.

[Greater Loegria]

In an organic way.
That's what I thought. Right enough.

There is nothing organic about it. It was imposed by violence and forced on people, then they were indoctrinated into it. See the german peasant rebellions, or land enclosure in the UK, and so on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Peasants%27_War

300,000 deaths for the population of the time is a substantial genocide of the population by aristocrats.

It is organic that the masses have lords and live on their land, benefiting from love through fealty.

This is true, but the fact that it exists at all is what allows it to be mocked. That it's defended in a lot of gender-sensitivity programs means it's recognized as legitimate to at least some degree.

Thing is, it barely exists at all. I've not seen a single person unironically use it. And I kinda dislike the idea of a virtually nonexistent phenomenon being used as a cudgel to mock ftm or mtf transgender people.

You're right it is indeed rude to mock the dysphoric.

[Purgatio]

Absolutely, Thomas Putman's 'hunkering down' thesis proved what is nothing more than common sense - we as human beings are tribalistic, we think of the world in us vs. them terms, there's nothing wrong with that, we all struggle to find a sense of belonging and identity to a group and one's race and ethnicity tends to be the most visible, stark and obvious societal group to latch onto when you want to feel like you are a part of a wider movement and community, a group that feel at home with.

The moment countries in Europe started engaging in a policy of bringing about massive ethnic and racial demographic changes and shifts in the population, the shift towards the far-right and the push for a return to ethnic homogeneity is only natural. You do feel like your group is under attack when the racial make-up of your community shifts in such a drastic fashion, it's inevitable. Fascism, based on a mantra of 'defense of race and nation', will essentially be a corrective political shift towards a sociological equilibrium.

[North German Realm]

There is nothing organic about it. It was imposed by violence and forced on people, then they were indoctrinated into it. See the german peasant rebellions, or land enclosure in the UK, and so on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Peasants%27_War

300,000 deaths for the population of the time is a substantial genocide of the population by aristocrats.

It is organic that the masses have lords and live on their land, benefiting from love through fealty.

There is nothing organic about that tho.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

It is organic that the masses have lords and live on their land, benefiting from love through fealty.

I beg to differ.

[Griemvarant]

This is true, but the fact that it exists at all is what allows it to be mocked. That it's defended in a lot of gender-sensitivity programs means it's recognized as legitimate to at least some degree.

Thing is, it barely exists at all. I've not seen a single person unironically use it. And I kinda dislike the idea of a virtually nonexistent phenomenon being used as a cudgel to mock ftm or mtf transgender people.

Fair enough. I don't actually mock people who've gone through the long and arduous road to transitioning. Gender dysphoria is a legitimate issue and people suffering from it need proper therapy and counseling to understand if transitioning is right for them. Not to mention the horror stories that come from botched reassignment surgeries.
The problem is the sheer number of "transtrenders" who claim to be trans because it's the cool thing to do or who get duped into thinking they're trans and end up ruining their lives. The promotion of 56 genders or whatever the number is up to now certainly doesn't help. Nor does it help that a lot of the current transgender psychology is based on the works of John Money.

[Ostroeuropa]

There is nothing organic about it. It was imposed by violence and forced on people, then they were indoctrinated into it. See the german peasant rebellions, or land enclosure in the UK, and so on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Peasants%27_War

300,000 deaths for the population of the time is a substantial genocide of the population by aristocrats.

It is organic that the masses have lords and live on their land, benefiting from love through fealty.

Thing is, it barely exists at all. I've not seen a single person unironically use it. And I kinda dislike the idea of a virtually nonexistent phenomenon being used as a cudgel to mock ftm or mtf transgender people.

You're right it is indeed rude to mock the dysphoric.

That isn't organic. It was imposed by violence against the will of the peasantry.

This is what a real organic community looks like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dithmarschen#History

Note that Dithsmarschen was one of the last places to fall to feudalism and it was an explicit policy of the nobles to impose their goverrnment form on the areas that lacked it.

It is no more organic than if a gang of the people in your town shot and beat you and your neighbors until they paid them tribute, then expanded into towns lacking that system. It is a system of thuggery and exploitation, propped up with pseudo-nazi ideology in the form of divine right of bloodlines to rule over other people while ignoring that imposing violence is the only thing that actually separates them.

[Painisia]

Even if I am a great upholder of democracy, it seems to me that it is a very fragile thing. Right now in our contemporary decade, we are facing a broad range of issues, from socio-economic disparities to climate change. It is no wonder that pessimism and distrust towards the democratic system is growing large. In the quest for the panacea, people are looking towards circus artists, such as Trump and other populists acting like Santa Claus. Even though right-wing reactionary ideology is not going to appeal to our next generation, other forms of anti-democratic ideologies are going to do that, such as Marxist collectivism autocracy.

[Griemvarant]

Absolutely, Thomas Putman's 'hunkering down' thesis proved what is nothing more than common sense - we as human beings are tribalistic, we think of the world in us vs. them terms, there's nothing wrong with that, we all struggle to find a sense of belonging and identity to a group and one's race and ethnicity tends to be the most visible, stark and obvious societal group to latch onto when you want to feel like you are a part of a wider movement and community, a group that feel at home with.

The moment countries in Europe started engaging in a policy of bringing about massive ethnic and racial demographic changes and shifts in the population, the shift towards the far-right and the push for a return to ethnic homogeneity is only natural. You do feel like your group is under attack when the racial make-up of your community shifts in such a drastic fashion, it's inevitable. Fascism, based on a mantra of 'defense of race and nation', will essentially be a corrective political shift towards a sociological equilibrium.

It doesn't help that the existing populace is being called bigoted for worrying about their way of life, or the surge in crimes which often go unprosecuted due to "cultural differences."

[Purgatio]

It is organic that the masses have lords and live on their land, benefiting from love through fealty.
You're right it is indeed rude to mock the dysphoric.

That isn't organic. It was imposed by violence against the will of the peasantry.

This is what a real organic community looks like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dithmarschen#History

Note that Dithsmarschen was one of the last places to fall to feudalism and it was an explicit policy of the nobles to impose their goverrnment form on the areas that lacked it.

It is no more organic than if a gang of the people in your town shot and beat you and your neighbors until they paid them tribute, then expanded into towns lacking that system. It is a system of thuggery and exploitation.

Feudalism was organic in the sense that, under the social conditions of the time, it was the most logical and sustainable form of economic and political organisation in an age where the economy was essentially agrarian and you had a massive uneducated and illiterate population, incapable of broader political and democratic participation.

[Ostroeuropa]

That isn't organic. It was imposed by violence against the will of the peasantry.

This is what a real organic community looks like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dithmarschen#History

Note that Dithsmarschen was one of the last places to fall to feudalism and it was an explicit policy of the nobles to impose their goverrnment form on the areas that lacked it.

It is no more organic than if a gang of the people in your town shot and beat you and your neighbors until they paid them tribute, then expanded into towns lacking that system. It is a system of thuggery and exploitation.

Feudalism was organic in the sense that, under the social conditions of the time, it was the most logical and sustainable form of economic and political organisation in an age where the economy was essentially agrarian and you had a massive uneducated and illiterate population, incapable of broader political and democratic participation.

They were in fact capable when left to their own devices as the peasantry of Dithsmarschen demonstrated at length, as well as the Frisian culture more broadly and subsequent societies influenced by their ideas.

[Ifreann]

Fascists aren't socialists. The Nazis called themselves socialists because socialism was really popular in Weimar Germany, but they also purged the socialists from their party, banned trade unions, invaded the Soviet Union to defeat "Judeo-Bolshevism", sent communists to concentration camps and, as I mentioned above, formed a coalition with a conservative nationalist party in opposition to the socialist and communist parties.

Fascism is socialism, just look at its philosophical roots and the backgrounds of its proponents. It is an ideology of collectivism and extreme social change away from the gentry.

Fascism is völkisch, but that doesn't make it socialist. And really, you think social change away from the gentry means socialism? You understand that capitalism is not a synonym for feudalism, don't you?

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It is, but verbing nouns is pretty common in English and is usually understandable.

Not really. I mean, those things happened and you still have free speech, don't you? But if Richard Spencer became Chancellor of America and threw out the Constitution and gave his stormtroopers free rein to suppress dissent, well, then you rather wouldn't have free speech, would you?

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What I was saying is that it is unnecessarily restricting free speech of non-fascists. And I have limited free speech apparently, because if I even carry a national symbol and unfortunately encounter these terrorists, I would be suppressed.

Was the First Amendment repealed with my noticing? That anti-fascists might mistake you for a fascist doesn't mean you don't have free speech. Someone might mistake you for a Muslim and throw you in front of a train(as happened to a Sikh man), that doesn't mean you don't have freedom of religion.

Thanks for proving you don't care about free speech when it is your compatriots suppressing it.

What?

Also, the idea that I would support - or not mind - Richard Spencer abolishing free speech is moronic at best. Just because I don't support hooliganism does not mean I have sympathies for Richard Spencer, not that he will gain power anyway.

I'm sure you would not support Richard Spencer, I didn't say that you do. I just said that if he took power in America then you really wouldn't have free speech, the right would cease to exist in law, you would be facing not individual violence, but state suppression, the danger would not be getting harassed or punched, it would be getting disappeared, Nacht und Nebel.

I am not saying anything about you here. I am not saying anything about the right in general, not about conservatives. I'm just contrasting fascists and anti-fascists. Try not to get triggered.

[Purgatio]

Absolutely, Thomas Putman's 'hunkering down' thesis proved what is nothing more than common sense - we as human beings are tribalistic, we think of the world in us vs. them terms, there's nothing wrong with that, we all struggle to find a sense of belonging and identity to a group and one's race and ethnicity tends to be the most visible, stark and obvious societal group to latch onto when you want to feel like you are a part of a wider movement and community, a group that feel at home with.

The moment countries in Europe started engaging in a policy of bringing about massive ethnic and racial demographic changes and shifts in the population, the shift towards the far-right and the push for a return to ethnic homogeneity is only natural. You do feel like your group is under attack when the racial make-up of your community shifts in such a drastic fashion, it's inevitable. Fascism, based on a mantra of 'defense of race and nation', will essentially be a corrective political shift towards a sociological equilibrium.

It doesn't help that the existing populace is being called bigoted for worrying about their way of life, or the surge in crimes which often go unprosecuted due to "cultural differences."

Agreed, it's not bigoted to want to protect your homeland from undergoing a massive shift and change in its composition. Your country is your homeland, its supposed to be the place you feel comfortable and at home, like an inhabitant and not a visitor or an alien. You wanting a homeland or native hinterland for people like you doesn't imply hatred or exclusion of others, and calling people bigoted for feeling alienated by demographic changes does nothing but push them further towards fascist sympathies.