Is Fascism Inevitable in the Future of the West?

[Alvecia]

Forgive me if I’m not completely convinced that the way to prevent Neo-Nazi sentiments is to encourage race discrimination.

If we appease the fascists they'll surely stop being fascist.

Peace in our time

[Purgatio]

Or you could adopt domestic policies that attempt to encourage your local population to have more children, while making up any labour shortfall through temporary non-immigrant visas which have short expiration periods

Why not establish ethnostates like we had in the past? Wouldn't this be easier?

In diverse societies like the US where non-white Hispanics make up 62-63% of the resident population, it's difficult for me to see realistic how one would turn the US into an ethno-state at this point. It makes more sense to adopt a race-based immigration policy to attempt to slowly counteract existing demographic trends.

[Kowani]

Forgive me if I’m not completely convinced that the way to prevent Neo-Nazi sentiments is to encourage race discrimination.

If we appease the fascists they'll surely stop being fascist.

“Peace in our time.”

[Purgatio]

Or you could adopt domestic policies that attempt to encourage your local population to have more children, while making up any labour shortfall through temporary non-immigrant visas which have short expiration periods

Policies such as? And mind you, if you tried to make anything exclusive to a race, you’d face massive backlash, and deporting everyone who’s already there isn’t a good idea either, so you’ll have to deal with their fertility rate as well.

If you don't adopt race-specific policies to encourage increased fertility in a particular race, you will face eventual backlash when the majority race's proportion continues to decline, driving more and more members of that race into the arms of neo-Nazis. It's about choosing the lesser of two evils. Also, you can adopt an immigration policy that prioritises members of the majority race to migrate and settle in your country.

[Kustonia]

Forgive me if I’m not completely convinced that the way to prevent Neo-Nazi sentiments is to encourage race discrimination.

If we appease the fascists they'll surely stop being fascist.

It's not like you can get rid of Fascism. It's here, and we're ready to take you on.

[Purgatio]

I am bothered, I don't want white people in the US and UK to become fascists and neo-Nazis and I'm trying to find an actually viable solution rather than engage in wishful thinking that racism and tribalism will end

Forgive me if I’m not completely convinced that the way to prevent Neo-Nazi sentiments is to encourage race discrimination.

Forgive me if I'm not completely convinced that turning the US majority-minority, crossing our fingers and hoping white people don't throw their support behind fascists in response is not the best way to solve racial tensions and conflict.

[Ifreann]

I don't know why you want countries to adopt racist immigration policies when you've also said that whites are going to become a minority regardless of immigration policy. My best guess would be that you just like racism.

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Excuse me?

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Um, no? The Daily Mail's editorial policy is reflective of the beliefs of the people who set it, not of the beliefs of Britain as a whole.

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I wouldn't know why racists in 2005 seemingly preferred to target South Asians.

Well I gave you an explanation of why. South Asians, Caribbeans and Eastern Europeans make up significant proportions of the UK resident population, and individuals in those groups were more likely to suffer hate crimes. Chinese, Japanese and Jews make up smaller proportions of the UK resident population, and individuals in those groups were less likely to suffer hate crimes compared to the former category of persons. Vindicating my view that the greater the racial diversity, the greater the resentment and demonisation of the racial majority against that group.

That you have proposed an explanation that vindicates your beliefs isn't very convincing.

[Alvecia]

Forgive me if I’m not completely convinced that the way to prevent Neo-Nazi sentiments is to encourage race discrimination.

Forgive me if I'm not completely convinced that turning the US majority-minority, crossing our fingers and hoping white people don't throw their support behind fascists in response is not the best way to solve racial tensions and conflict.

Good thing I never suggested doing nothing.

[Genivaria]

If we appease the fascists they'll surely stop being fascist.

It's not like you can get rid of Fascism. It's here, and we're ready to take you on.

Hmmmh yep totally, much threatened, very terrifying.

[Purgatio]

Well I gave you an explanation of why. South Asians, Caribbeans and Eastern Europeans make up significant proportions of the UK resident population, and individuals in those groups were more likely to suffer hate crimes. Chinese, Japanese and Jews make up smaller proportions of the UK resident population, and individuals in those groups were less likely to suffer hate crimes compared to the former category of persons. Vindicating my view that the greater the racial diversity, the greater the resentment and demonisation of the racial majority against that group.

That you have proposed an explanation that vindicates your beliefs isn't very convincing.

Am I supposed to believe its just a massive coincidence that South Asians, Caribbeans and Slavs are more likely to suffer hate crimes from White Brits compared to East Asians and Jews? Its all just random chance?

[Ifreann]

If we appease the fascists they'll surely stop being fascist.

It's not like you can get rid of Fascism. It's here, and we're ready to take you on.

Gosh, how intimidating.

[Shanhwa]

It would be nice, but our free worldtm is probably too entrenched, i'd bet on a resurgence of nationalism in general and the destruction of the EU. The USA will not go fascist or nationalist, instead becoming a multicultural nation where no group is the majority. NATO would probably disband because of this divide and the Europeans and Russians would befriend eachother, but not by subversion but by cooperation, because these nationalist states would considerably up the military to the point where Europe could defend itself. A 25% chance of population exchanges occuring between East Europe and Russia in this timeline.

Resurgence of nationalism? Already happening.

Destruction of the EU? Hopefully, eventually, yes.


To answer the OP; Fascism in and of itself is not inevitable; but aspects of it will be if humanity continues it’s current course. Large corporations have gained extreme political powers and influences and with more and more restrictions across the world on your rights, sometimes your human rights, authoritarian corporatism is a possibility. Just not in the traditional sense of fascism.

[Purgatio]

Forgive me if I'm not completely convinced that turning the US majority-minority, crossing our fingers and hoping white people don't throw their support behind fascists in response is not the best way to solve racial tensions and conflict.

Good thing I never suggested doing nothing.

You suggested vaguely adopting policies to somehow encourage interaction and break down racial barriers, a noble ideal which I don't see any evidence in the real world has actually worked out

[Ifreann]

That you have proposed an explanation that vindicates your beliefs isn't very convincing.

Am I supposed to believe its just a massive coincidence that South Asians, Caribbeans and Slavs are more likely to suffer hate crimes from White Brits compared to East Asians and Jews? Its all just random chance?

You can believe whatever you want.

[Purgatio]

Am I supposed to believe its just a massive coincidence that South Asians, Caribbeans and Slavs are more likely to suffer hate crimes from White Brits compared to East Asians and Jews? Its all just random chance?

You can believe whatever you want.

Give me an equally-compelling alternative explanation and I'll change my mind. That's how debate works.

[Genivaria]

You can believe whatever you want.

Give me an equally-compelling alternative explanation and I'll change my mind. That's how debate works.

No that's how an Argument from Ignorance works, you don't get to shoe-horn some bullshit in without explanation because you can't think of a better one, you have to defend the claim you make.

[Kowani]

Policies such as? And mind you, if you tried to make anything exclusive to a race, you’d face massive backlash, and deporting everyone who’s already there isn’t a good idea either, so you’ll have to deal with their fertility rate as well.

If you don't adopt race-specific policies to encourage increased fertility in a particular race, you will face eventual backlash when the majority race's proportion continues to decline, driving more and more members of that race into the arms of neo-Nazis. It's about choosing the lesser of two evils. Also, you can adopt an immigration policy that prioritises members of the majority race to migrate and settle in your country.

Would you like some grease for that slope?

As the youngest generation is, by almost any metric we have, as liberal if not more so than millennials, even though the alt-right is more prevalent than it’s been in a long time, the ones who’ll matter by the time these demographic shifts happen won’t be diametrically opposed. Particularly since they’ll be a plurality-and the people who would be most opposed tend to live in areas where the shift won’t hit them as hard.

Also, you’ve yet to explain how you would implement these policies legally.

[Purgatio]

Give me an equally-compelling alternative explanation and I'll change my mind. That's how debate works.

No that's how an Argument from Ignorance works, you don't get to shoe-horn some bullshit in without explanation because you can't think of a better one, you have to defend the claim you make.

I have defended it, its the most logical explanation of the statistics I cited in The Guardian article and supported by Putnam's 'hunkering down' thesis, which I also cited earlier. That's my defense of my claim. Studies vindicating the view that social cohesion decreases as racial diversity increases, coupled with comparative hate crime statistics in the UK which appears to vindicate that same thesis.

[Purgatio]

If you don't adopt race-specific policies to encourage increased fertility in a particular race, you will face eventual backlash when the majority race's proportion continues to decline, driving more and more members of that race into the arms of neo-Nazis. It's about choosing the lesser of two evils. Also, you can adopt an immigration policy that prioritises members of the majority race to migrate and settle in your country.

Would you like some grease for that slope?

As the youngest generation is, by almost any metric we have, as liberal if not more so than millennials, even though the alt-right is more prevalent than it’s been in a long time, the ones who’ll matter by the time these demographic shifts happen won’t be diametrically opposed. Particularly since they’ll be a plurality-and the people who would be most opposed tend to live in areas where the shift won’t hit them as hard.

Also, you’ve yet to explain how you would implement these policies legally.

Through the law? Immigration policy and pro-natalist policies can be whatever a country's lawmakers want it to be.

[Alvecia]

Good thing I never suggested doing nothing.

You suggested vaguely adopting policies to somehow encourage interaction and break down racial barriers, a noble ideal which I don't see any evidence in the real world has actually worked out

Then it appears we’re in the same boat. Though personally I find there’s more evidence historically that appeasing fascists and Nazis doesn’t work.

[Kowani]

It would be nice, but our free worldtm is probably too entrenched, i'd bet on a resurgence of nationalism in general and the destruction of the EU. The USA will not go fascist or nationalist, instead becoming a multicultural nation where no group is the majority. NATO would probably disband because of this divide and the Europeans and Russians would befriend eachother, but not by subversion but by cooperation, because these nationalist states would considerably up the military to the point where Europe could defend itself. A 25% chance of population exchanges occuring between East Europe and Russia in this timeline.

Resurgence of nationalism? Already happening.

Destruction of the EU? Hopefully, eventually, yes.


To answer the OP; Fascism in and of itself is not inevitable; but aspects of it will be if humanity continues it’s current course. Large corporations have gained extreme political powers and influences and with more and more restrictions across the world on your rights, sometimes your human rights, authoritarian corporatism is a possibility. Just not in the traditional sense of fascism.

I will never understand why people constantly have a raging hatred for the EU.

[Holy Tedalonia]

While it is true that it is small adjustment to deal with their population decline, and doesnt really fulfill the issues you see in immigration. It is however a step in that direction. The only reason why japan hadn’t completely opened its borders is because they don’t have to, not yet atleast. Until their population truly declines in large numbers they will not open that border. This is but a fracturing of Japans resolve. They will break in time, when they need the manpower to keep their nations economy afloat. There is only so much that their current immigration system can do until they have to once again have to open it up more.

I guess we can only wait and see if that's true, but if that day ever comes get ready to see the rise of the Japanese equivalent of neo-Nazis amongst the ethnic Yamato population, same as is taking place in the US, UK and Canada right now.

I can’t see that becoming a thing ever in japan. Sure traditionalism and nationalism has always been a part of japan. But I don’t think your correlation works for japan. If immigrations direct effects on fascism, then Yukio Mishima would’ve committed seppuku back in 2018 rather then earlier (assuming he was still alive by then), but no instead he decided to commit seppuku (and a coup) back in 1970, a period of time where there was absolutely no immigration.

It is no doubt that Japan has grown softer, and this was what Yukio despised about the transition in Japan. He wanted that rugged old fashion Imperial Japan. However the populace differed in opinion, and he knowing his coup wouldn’t work, committed seppuku.

To say that Japan would grow fascist if immigration were to open up? I respectfully disagree, sure you’ll get the fringe groups, but they are already dissatisfied with Japan as a whole and become a minority. The culture has completely changed. You’ve got pre-war japanese people who are dissatisfied with the way that japan is currently behaving, and you’ve got post war Japanese people who are ok with this softer version of japan. Even if Japanese people as a whole feel threatened by immigration, it would be by a legal process rather then a revolutionary process. As you can see it is happening even now, with their current immigration policy. The moment the flaws in this policy are revealed, (showing that they cant sustain a population declining nation), they will be forced to accept immigrants whether they like to or not. Otherwise they are denying the reality of the situation.

[Genivaria]

No that's how an Argument from Ignorance works, you don't get to shoe-horn some bullshit in without explanation because you can't think of a better one, you have to defend the claim you make.

I have defended it, its the most logical explanation of the statistics I cited in The Guardian article and supported by Putnam's 'hunkering down' thesis, which I also cited earlier. That's my defense of my claim. Studies vindicating the view that social cohesion decreases as racial diversity increases, coupled with comparative hate crime statistics in the UK which appears to vindicate that same thesis.

So can you demonstrate a causation with that correlation?

[Kustonia]

If you don't adopt race-specific policies to encourage increased fertility in a particular race, you will face eventual backlash when the majority race's proportion continues to decline, driving more and more members of that race into the arms of neo-Nazis. It's about choosing the lesser of two evils. Also, you can adopt an immigration policy that prioritises members of the majority race to migrate and settle in your country.

Would you like some grease for that slope?

As the youngest generation is, by almost any metric we have, as liberal if not more so than millennials, even though the alt-right is more prevalent than it’s been in a long time, the ones who’ll matter by the time these demographic shifts happen won’t be diametrically opposed. Particularly since they’ll be a plurality-and the people who would be most opposed tend to live in areas where the shift won’t hit them as hard.

Also, you’ve yet to explain how you would implement these policies legally.

Or...maybe enough white people will walk away from modernity to form their own ethnostate all over again with their blood, sweat, and tears.

[Purgatio]

You suggested vaguely adopting policies to somehow encourage interaction and break down racial barriers, a noble ideal which I don't see any evidence in the real world has actually worked out

Then it appears we’re in the same boat. Though personally I find there’s more evidence historically that appeasing fascists and Nazis doesn’t work.

I'm not trying to appease the fascist ideological leaders themselves, like Richard Spencer or Jared Taylor. I'm trying to stop whites who would otherwise not become fascists from joining these groups as rank-and-file members in the first place.