Is Fascism Inevitable in the Future of the West?

[Kowani]

While this is true, this cannot and will not be the status quo forever, as the world feels compelled to trade and immigrate for financial reasons. Like the suburbans economics dictated its creation, as many wealthy war veterans returned home to settle down. This next step for humanity cant be avoided as the lure of economics will always prevail.

If the lure of economics is really so strong why haven't wealthy countries which are integrated into the global economy like Japan, South Korea and Taiwan opened their doors and grant citizenship and permanent residency and immigrant visas to numerous non-Han, non-Korean and non-Japanese people?

We literally have a thread on Japan opening up to immigration. And when most countries don’t recognize Taiwan, well.

[Purgatio]

Wait, Canada is 47% non-white? Really? That's surprising, do you have a statistic to back that up?

Anyway, there are ways to increase the white birthrate like adopting race-specific financial packages to incentive child-bearing. And that trend can be counteracted through an immigration policy that actively brings in more white immigrants and which doesn't renew visas for non-white migrants already in these societies.

The 2016 census
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-rece ... sable=true
I misread it is 43% Non White

I'm so confused, your source does show 56.9% of the Canadian population is White European, and yet Wikipedia suggests 73% of the Canadian population is White (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Visible_minority_population). Is something going on here? Is Wikipedia misrepresenting the Census data (which is the wiki source in the footnotes)?

[Kustonia]

My solution was to actively adopt immigration policies that take race into account and try and reduce racial diversity. In the case of the US, UK and Canada, this means granting more citizenships and permanent residency to whites and prioritising them over non-whites, to counteract existing demographic projections.

And that's not nuclear war so it won't change the projections and white people will become a minority anyway. Kinda sounds like you want to have racist immigration policies just for the sake of it.

Hell, you can't possibly increase the number of white Britons in Britain by trying to import white people from outside of Britain, because those white people won't be white Britons, will they?

You are a very sick human being who needs a mental health professional. We are all in support of you getting help.

[Alvecia]

The method may vary, but the result is the same. Your solution basically boils down to “just not have them here”. Just apply that same logic to homelessness. Bam, no more homeless.

Yes, but deporting the homeless causes them real harm, not granting citizenship to a non-white immigrant doesn't harm anyone.

That’s not particularly relevant so how poor the solution is. It’s the “I can’t be bothered” of solutions.

[Holy Tedalonia]

While this is true, this cannot and will not be the status quo forever, as the world feels compelled to trade and immigrate for financial reasons. Like the suburbans economics dictated its creation, as many wealthy war veterans returned home to settle down. This next step for humanity cant be avoided as the lure of economics will always prevail.

If the lure of economics is really so strong why haven't wealthy countries which are integrated into the global economy like Japan, South Korea and Taiwan opened their doors and grant citizenship and permanent residency and immigrant visas to numerous non-Han, non-Korean and non-Japanese people?

Funny you should mention Japan, as they had recently opened up on their immigration back in 2018. As their population was declining, they needed more people to fill the gaps in the population.

[Senegalboy]

The 2016 census
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-rece ... sable=true
I misread it is 43% Non White

I'm so confused, your source does show 56.9% of the Canadian population is White European, and yet Wikipedia suggests 73% of the Canadian population is White (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Visible_minority_population). Is something going on here? Is Wikipedia misrepresenting the Census data (which is the wiki source in the footnotes)?

And this source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Canadians says 53%

[Purgatio]

If the lure of economics is really so strong why haven't wealthy countries which are integrated into the global economy like Japan, South Korea and Taiwan opened their doors and grant citizenship and permanent residency and immigrant visas to numerous non-Han, non-Korean and non-Japanese people?

We literally have a thread on Japan opening up to immigration. And when most countries don’t recognize Taiwan, well.

Taiwan is in the WTO as the "Separate Customs Territory of Chinese Taipei" which is how the PRC and its allies didn't vote down its accession, benefitting from WTO rules of reduction of tariffs via schedule of concessions, MFN treatment, national treatment rules and bans on other WTO Members imposing quantitatively restricting Taiwanese exports, so my point still stands that Taiwan's integrated into the global economy.

As for Japan, correct me if I'm wrong but Japan is only issuing temporary visas to other non-Japanese, which is fine since I don't support race-based temporary non-immigrant visas which expire, don't change the demographic face of the society on any permanent basis and don't make the majority race feel threatened and displaced. But is Japan also issuing citizenship, PR status or long-term immigrant visas on a long term basis to non-Japanese? As far as I'm aware, they aren't.

[Purgatio]

I'm so confused, your source does show 56.9% of the Canadian population is White European, and yet Wikipedia suggests 73% of the Canadian population is White (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Visible_minority_population). Is something going on here? Is Wikipedia misrepresenting the Census data (which is the wiki source in the footnotes)?

And this source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Canadians says 53%

Wow, this is so strange haha, well I'll just take the 53% as the correct number then

[Purgatio]

Yes, but deporting the homeless causes them real harm, not granting citizenship to a non-white immigrant doesn't harm anyone.

That’s not particularly relevant so how poor the solution is. It’s the “I can’t be bothered” of solutions.

I am bothered, I don't want white people in the US and UK to become fascists and neo-Nazis and I'm trying to find an actually viable solution rather than engage in wishful thinking that racism and tribalism will end

[Purgatio]

If the lure of economics is really so strong why haven't wealthy countries which are integrated into the global economy like Japan, South Korea and Taiwan opened their doors and grant citizenship and permanent residency and immigrant visas to numerous non-Han, non-Korean and non-Japanese people?

Funny you should mention Japan, as they had recently opened up on their immigration back in 2018. As their population was declining, they needed more people to fill the gaps in the population.

This is my response on this forum to a similar statement.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=35541450#p35541450

[Kustonia]

If the lure of economics is really so strong why haven't wealthy countries which are integrated into the global economy like Japan, South Korea and Taiwan opened their doors and grant citizenship and permanent residency and immigrant visas to numerous non-Han, non-Korean and non-Japanese people?

Funny you should mention Japan, as they had recently opened up on their immigration back in 2018. As their population was declining, they needed more people to fill the gaps in the population.

Japan doesn't NEED more immigrants. No country really needs immigrants. These governments are not taking the necessary steps to increase the native population. I'm not sure if you've heard of Victor Orban's fairly recent legislation regarding native births or not.

[Ifreann]

His base takes a different bus.

Well that's convenient.

I was being silly, but that is kind of how it works. People might live in a city, but they don't live in the whole city, you know? They live in their neighbourhood and their workplace and those places could be very homogeneous even if the city is not. And that's before we consider how people can segregate themselves online. People aren't going to get over their silly prejudices about foreigners if every evening they come home and spend hours reading Daily Mail articles.

[Purgatio]

Well that's convenient.

I was being silly, but that is kind of how it works. People might live in a city, but they don't live in the whole city, you know? They live in their neighbourhood and their workplace and those places could be very homogeneous even if the city is not. And that's before we consider how people can segregate themselves online. People aren't going to get over their silly prejudices about foreigners if every evening they come home and spend hours reading Daily Mail articles.

Isn't the fact that the Daily Mail has gradually becoming a sensationalist, race-baiting tabloid evidence of my view that the more diverse a society becomes the greater the backlash in the majority race towards minorities?

[Kowani]

We literally have a thread on Japan opening up to immigration. And when most countries don’t recognize Taiwan, well.

Taiwan is in the WTO as the "Separate Customs Territory of Chinese Taipei" which is how the PRC and its allies didn't vote down its accession, benefitting from WTO rules of reduction of tariffs via schedule of concessions, MFN treatment, national treatment rules and bans on other WTO Members imposing quantitatively restricting Taiwanese exports, so my point still stands that Taiwan's integrated into the global economy.

Ah, but that’s the thing. It’s integrated, yes. But immigration? If your government doesn’t recognize Taiwan, good luck getting a Visa. And of course, China has a no reason to allow people into Taiwan-and would probably be pretty suspicious of most people who tried.

As for Japan, correct me if I'm wrong but Japan is only issuing temporary visas to other non-Japanese, which is fine since I don't support race-based temporary non-immigrant visas which expire, don't change the demographic face of the society on any permanent basis and don't make the majority race feel threatened and displaced. But is Japan also issuing citizenship, PR status or long-term immigrant visas on a long term basis to non-Japanese? As far as I'm aware, they aren't.

As for that, I don’t know. What I do know is that, if demographic trends in Japan or the Weat continue, then to maintain anything approaching replacement levels, permanent immigration will be needed.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Funny you should mention Japan, as they had recently opened up on their immigration back in 2018. As their population was declining, they needed more people to fill the gaps in the population.

This is my response on this forum to a similar statement.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=35541450#p35541450

While it is true that it is small adjustment to deal with their population decline, and doesnt really fulfill the issues you see in immigration. It is however a step in that direction. The only reason why japan hadn’t completely opened its borders is because they don’t have to, not yet atleast. Until their population truly declines in large numbers they will not open that border. This is but a fracturing of Japans resolve. They will break in time, when they need the manpower to keep their nations economy afloat. There is only so much that their current immigration system can do until they have to once again have to open it up more.

[Purgatio]

Well that's convenient.

I was being silly, but that is kind of how it works. People might live in a city, but they don't live in the whole city, you know? They live in their neighbourhood and their workplace and those places could be very homogeneous even if the city is not. And that's before we consider how people can segregate themselves online. People aren't going to get over their silly prejudices about foreigners if every evening they come home and spend hours reading Daily Mail articles.

Also what's your reply to the remainder of my post (the part you cut out after "well that's convenient")

[Purgatio]

Taiwan is in the WTO as the "Separate Customs Territory of Chinese Taipei" which is how the PRC and its allies didn't vote down its accession, benefitting from WTO rules of reduction of tariffs via schedule of concessions, MFN treatment, national treatment rules and bans on other WTO Members imposing quantitatively restricting Taiwanese exports, so my point still stands that Taiwan's integrated into the global economy.

Ah, but that’s the thing. It’s integrated, yes. But immigration? If your government doesn’t recognize Taiwan, good luck getting a Visa. And of course, China has a no reason to allow people into Taiwan-and would probably be pretty suspicious of most people who tried.

As for Japan, correct me if I'm wrong but Japan is only issuing temporary visas to other non-Japanese, which is fine since I don't support race-based temporary non-immigrant visas which expire, don't change the demographic face of the society on any permanent basis and don't make the majority race feel threatened and displaced. But is Japan also issuing citizenship, PR status or long-term immigrant visas on a long term basis to non-Japanese? As far as I'm aware, they aren't.

As for that, I don’t know. What I do know is that, if demographic trends in Japan or the Weat continue, then to maintain anything approaching replacement levels, permanent immigration will be needed.

Or you could adopt domestic policies that attempt to encourage your local population to have more children, while making up any labour shortfall through temporary non-immigrant visas which have short expiration periods

[Purgatio]

This is my response on this forum to a similar statement.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=35541450#p35541450

While it is true that it is small adjustment to deal with their population decline, and doesnt really fulfill the issues you see in immigration. It is however a step in that direction. The only reason why japan hadn’t completely opened its borders is because they don’t have to, not yet atleast. Until their population truly declines in large numbers they will not open that border. This is but a fracturing of Japans resolve. They will break in time, when they need the manpower to keep their nations economy afloat. There is only so much that their current immigration system can do until they have to once again have to open it up more.

I guess we can only wait and see if that's true, but if that day ever comes get ready to see the rise of the Japanese equivalent of neo-Nazis amongst the ethnic Yamato population, same as is taking place in the US, UK and Canada right now.

[Kustonia]

Ah, but that’s the thing. It’s integrated, yes. But immigration? If your government doesn’t recognize Taiwan, good luck getting a Visa. And of course, China has a no reason to allow people into Taiwan-and would probably be pretty suspicious of most people who tried.

As for that, I don’t know. What I do know is that, if demographic trends in Japan or the Weat continue, then to maintain anything approaching replacement levels, permanent immigration will be needed.

Or you could adopt domestic policies that attempt to encourage your local population to have more children, while making up any labour shortfall through temporary non-immigrant visas which have short expiration periods

Why not establish ethnostates like we had in the past? Wouldn't this be easier?

[Ifreann]

And that's not nuclear war so it won't change the projections and white people will become a minority anyway. Kinda sounds like you want to have racist immigration policies just for the sake of it.

Hell, you can't possibly increase the number of white Britons in Britain by trying to import white people from outside of Britain, because those white people won't be white Britons, will they?

As I've already said, I'm not white, what possible reason could I possibly want Western societies to adopt pro-white immigration policies even though I don't think it would help anything. I support it because I actually think it would make a difference and reduce racial resentment amongst the white population and stop driving the young white working-class into the arms of fascists.

I don't know why you want countries to adopt racist immigration policies when you've also said that whites are going to become a minority regardless of immigration policy. My best guess would be that you just like racism.

---

And that's not nuclear war so it won't change the projections and white people will become a minority anyway. Kinda sounds like you want to have racist immigration policies just for the sake of it.

Hell, you can't possibly increase the number of white Britons in Britain by trying to import white people from outside of Britain, because those white people won't be white Britons, will they?

You are a very sick human being who needs a mental health professional. We are all in support of you getting help.

Excuse me?

---

I was being silly, but that is kind of how it works. People might live in a city, but they don't live in the whole city, you know? They live in their neighbourhood and their workplace and those places could be very homogeneous even if the city is not. And that's before we consider how people can segregate themselves online. People aren't going to get over their silly prejudices about foreigners if every evening they come home and spend hours reading Daily Mail articles.

Isn't the fact that the Daily Mail has gradually becoming a sensationalist, race-baiting tabloid evidence of my view that the more diverse a society becomes the greater the backlash in the majority race towards minorities?

Um, no? The Daily Mail's editorial policy is reflective of the beliefs of the people who set it, not of the beliefs of Britain as a whole.

---

I was being silly, but that is kind of how it works. People might live in a city, but they don't live in the whole city, you know? They live in their neighbourhood and their workplace and those places could be very homogeneous even if the city is not. And that's before we consider how people can segregate themselves online. People aren't going to get over their silly prejudices about foreigners if every evening they come home and spend hours reading Daily Mail articles.

Also what's your reply to the remainder of my post (the part you cut out after "well that's convenient")

I wouldn't know why racists in 2005 seemingly preferred to target South Asians.

[Kowani]

Ah, but that’s the thing. It’s integrated, yes. But immigration? If your government doesn’t recognize Taiwan, good luck getting a Visa. And of course, China has a no reason to allow people into Taiwan-and would probably be pretty suspicious of most people who tried.

As for that, I don’t know. What I do know is that, if demographic trends in Japan or the Weat continue, then to maintain anything approaching replacement levels, permanent immigration will be needed.

Or you could adopt domestic policies that attempt to encourage your local population to have more children, while making up any labour shortfall through temporary non-immigrant visas which have short expiration periods

Policies such as? And mind you, if you tried to make anything exclusive to a race, you’d face massive backlash, and deporting everyone who’s already there isn’t a good idea either, so you’ll have to deal with their fertility rate as well.

[Ifreann]

Or you could adopt domestic policies that attempt to encourage your local population to have more children, while making up any labour shortfall through temporary non-immigrant visas which have short expiration periods

Why not establish ethnostates like we had in the past? Wouldn't this be easier?

You never had ethnostates in the past.

[Alvecia]

That’s not particularly relevant so how poor the solution is. It’s the “I can’t be bothered” of solutions.

I am bothered, I don't want white people in the US and UK to become fascists and neo-Nazis and I'm trying to find an actually viable solution rather than engage in wishful thinking that racism and tribalism will end

Forgive me if I’m not completely convinced that the way to prevent Neo-Nazi sentiments is to encourage race discrimination.

[Purgatio]

As I've already said, I'm not white, what possible reason could I possibly want Western societies to adopt pro-white immigration policies even though I don't think it would help anything. I support it because I actually think it would make a difference and reduce racial resentment amongst the white population and stop driving the young white working-class into the arms of fascists.

I don't know why you want countries to adopt racist immigration policies when you've also said that whites are going to become a minority regardless of immigration policy. My best guess would be that you just like racism.

---

You are a very sick human being who needs a mental health professional. We are all in support of you getting help.

Excuse me?

---

Isn't the fact that the Daily Mail has gradually becoming a sensationalist, race-baiting tabloid evidence of my view that the more diverse a society becomes the greater the backlash in the majority race towards minorities?

Um, no? The Daily Mail's editorial policy is reflective of the beliefs of the people who set it, not of the beliefs of Britain as a whole.

---

Also what's your reply to the remainder of my post (the part you cut out after "well that's convenient")

I wouldn't know why racists in 2005 seemingly preferred to target South Asians.

Well I gave you an explanation of why. South Asians, Caribbeans and Eastern Europeans make up significant proportions of the UK resident population, and individuals in those groups were more likely to suffer hate crimes. Chinese, Japanese and Jews make up smaller proportions of the UK resident population, and individuals in those groups were less likely to suffer hate crimes compared to the former category of persons. Vindicating my view that the greater the racial diversity, the greater the resentment and demonisation of the racial majority against that group.

[Ifreann]

I am bothered, I don't want white people in the US and UK to become fascists and neo-Nazis and I'm trying to find an actually viable solution rather than engage in wishful thinking that racism and tribalism will end

Forgive me if I’m not completely convinced that the way to prevent Neo-Nazi sentiments is to encourage race discrimination.

If we appease the fascists they'll surely stop being fascist.