Is Fascism Inevitable in the Future of the West?

[Purgatio]

How do you explain the rise in hate crimes in the US? The rise of neo-Nazis and the alt-right? The rise of the EDL and Tommy Robinson in the UK? These societies are becoming more and more diverse - if more diversity leads to more toleration as you suggest, surely we'd see less and less ethno-supremacist movements in these countries as time goes on, right?

I can't speak for the US but i can for the UK.
On paper the UK is becoming more diverse as is the US but in reality the different races are moving apart.In many town and cities in both the UK and the US there is a phenomenon known as "white flight" where White people are moving out of increasingly diverse areas to whiter areas. Self segregation means that the races are not mixing well. If they did then tolerance may begin to take root.

The very fact that "white flight" and self-segregation is taking place within a diverse society suggests something about the mentality of those persons and intrinsic human nature. We avoid diversity precisely because we dislike it, we dislike being in an environment where we have to mix and mingle with persons who look, appear and sound extremely different from us. Forcing those persons into that same environment is unlikely to breed toleration, but resentment and entrenchment of existing racial prejudice.

[Ifreann]

Logical intuition also tells us that eventually you'll just get used to the people around you, no matter how different they may seem at first.

Why? The very fact that you're being exposed to people who are different from you in very visible, tangible and stark ways, on a constant and continuous basis, is only going to entrench your perception that these people are different from you and represent the 'other'. The more time you spend with them the more obvious these differences are, surely.

Because, obviously, the differences are largely inconsequential and it is intuitively logical that people will get over inconsequential differences. The people on the bus every day speaking Polish might seem strange when you've never heard Polish before, but after a while they're just people going to work.

[Purgatio]

Sure, but I can't exactly promote a mono-gender society since that doesn't make sense from an obvious perspective. But I can suggest that Western societies that are not very diverse (such as in Eastern Europe) should actively maintain that homogeneity, and Western societies which are diverse (like the US, UK and Canada) should attempt to mitigate or reduce the rate at which racial diversity increases. These are realistic and tangible policy solutions to stave off the increasing rise of and support for far-right and fascist groups.

But Far right and Fascist groups are doing better in homogenous countries like Poland and Hungary than in more diverse nations like the US.

Because those fascist groups fear the immigration of non-white refugees from the Mediterranean into those countries, and that enables them to use the whole 'impeding threat' rhetoric to demonise non-whites. In contrast, in countries like China, Taiwan, Japan and South Korea, we don't see that same rise of neo-Nazis and the alt-right because the majority race in those countries don't see any 'impending threat' of other minorities suddenly entering these countries.

[Purgatio]

Why? The very fact that you're being exposed to people who are different from you in very visible, tangible and stark ways, on a constant and continuous basis, is only going to entrench your perception that these people are different from you and represent the 'other'. The more time you spend with them the more obvious these differences are, surely.

Because, obviously, the differences are largely inconsequential and it is intuitively logical that people will get over inconsequential differences. The people on the bus every day speaking Polish might seem strange when you've never heard Polish before, but after a while they're just people going to work.

Eastern Europeans and Slavs have been in the UK for a long time, and yet a figure like Nigel Farage can go on public platforms and publicly speak of a Romanian and Bulgarian "wave of crime" and not receive any backlash from his base

[Alvecia]

As I’ve said, reducing one particular form of tribalism won’t reduce the effects of tribalism. People will just find other “tribes” and conflict will stem from there. Its a temporary measure at best.

There's a question of degree to be considered here, surely. Countries like Japan or Taiwan which are very ethnically-homogenous aren't utopias without internal political conflict or conflict over culture war issues like gay marriage, but they don't have the racial tensions of the US and UK.

That’s kind of my point. Eliminating racial tensions does just that, but doesn’t really hit at the core of the problem. You’re essentially throwing your arms up saying “fuck it, people can’t change”. Something I think is not particularly realistic nor pragmatic

[Purgatio]

There's a question of degree to be considered here, surely. Countries like Japan or Taiwan which are very ethnically-homogenous aren't utopias without internal political conflict or conflict over culture war issues like gay marriage, but they don't have the racial tensions of the US and UK.

That’s kind of my point. Eliminating racial tensions does just that, but doesn’t really hit at the core of the problem. You’re essentially throwing your arms up saying “fuck it, people can’t change”. Something I think is not particularly realistic nor pragmatic

Racial tension and conflict is bad, I'm proposing a solution that reduces it. The fact that I can't reduce other sources of conflict doesn't mean I can't address this source of conflict.

[Ifreann]

Everyone naturally creates a ‘other’, whether by race, gender, political standing, or etc. No one can really end tribalism, that much is true, but to ignore that there are other ways to be ‘tribal’ outside of race, is also ignorant. In essence there is no soulution to reducing tribalism.

Sure, but I can't exactly promote a mono-gender society since that doesn't make sense from an obvious perspective. But I can suggest that Western societies that are not very diverse (such as in Eastern Europe) should actively maintain that homogeneity, and Western societies which are diverse (like the US, UK and Canada) should attempt to mitigate or reduce the rate at which racial diversity increases. These are realistic and tangible policy solutions to stave off the increasing rise of and support for far-right and fascist groups.

I thought that changing migration trends wouldn't make any difference and white people would become a minority regardless because of fertility rates and median ages. I thought it would take extreme events like nuclear war to throw the projections off.

[Holy Tedalonia]

That’s kind of my point. Eliminating racial tensions does just that, but doesn’t really hit at the core of the problem. You’re essentially throwing your arms up saying “fuck it, people can’t change”. Something I think is not particularly realistic nor pragmatic

Racial tension and conflict is bad, I'm proposing a solution that reduces it. The fact that I can't reduce other sources of conflict doesn't mean I can't address this source of conflict.

Sure, but I can't exactly promote a mono-gender society since that doesn't make sense from an obvious perspective. But I can suggest that Western societies that are not very diverse (such as in Eastern Europe) should actively maintain that homogeneity, and Western societies which are diverse (like the US, UK and Canada) should attempt to mitigate or reduce the rate at which racial diversity increases. These are realistic and tangible policy solutions to stave off the increasing rise of and support for far-right and fascist groups.

I think to create a balance is not neccessary, most ethnic races will eventually decline due to globalism, and the rise of the mixed races will eventually come to fruition. No matter how you try and stop it, it will become a eventuality, and a portion of white men will be threatened. Your solution will not stop the decline of the white man, but it will increase racial tensions as many would find that, to prevent someone from entering the country due to skin color, may find that a tad problematic.

[Alvecia]

That’s kind of my point. Eliminating racial tensions does just that, but doesn’t really hit at the core of the problem. You’re essentially throwing your arms up saying “fuck it, people can’t change”. Something I think is not particularly realistic nor pragmatic

Racial tension and conflict is bad, I'm proposing a solution that reduces it. The fact that I can't reduce other sources of conflict doesn't mean I can't address this source of conflict.

It’s a poor short term solution. It’s like if the solution to homelessness was to just deport all the homeless.

[Senegalboy]

I can't speak for the US but i can for the UK.
On paper the UK is becoming more diverse as is the US but in reality the different races are moving apart.In many town and cities in both the UK and the US there is a phenomenon known as "white flight" where White people are moving out of increasingly diverse areas to whiter areas. Self segregation means that the races are not mixing well. If they did then tolerance may begin to take root.

The very fact that "white flight" and self-segregation is taking place within a diverse society suggests something about the mentality of those persons and intrinsic human nature. We avoid diversity precisely because we dislike it, we dislike being in an environment where we have to mix and mingle with persons who look, appear and sound extremely different from us. Forcing those persons into that same environment is unlikely to breed toleration, but resentment and entrenchment of existing racial prejudice.

We avoid diversity because we fear it and it isn't diversity itself which are pushing people away but the sheer scale of diversity today and the transformation that has occured in an average person's lifetime.The average person in the UK is 40.The amount of demographic transformation since 1979 has been huge.

[Purgatio]

Sure, but I can't exactly promote a mono-gender society since that doesn't make sense from an obvious perspective. But I can suggest that Western societies that are not very diverse (such as in Eastern Europe) should actively maintain that homogeneity, and Western societies which are diverse (like the US, UK and Canada) should attempt to mitigate or reduce the rate at which racial diversity increases. These are realistic and tangible policy solutions to stave off the increasing rise of and support for far-right and fascist groups.

I thought that changing migration trends wouldn't make any difference and white people would become a minority regardless because of fertility rates and median ages. I thought it would take extreme events like nuclear war to throw the projections off.

My solution was to actively adopt immigration policies that take race into account and try and reduce racial diversity. In the case of the US, UK and Canada, this means granting more citizenships and permanent residency to whites and prioritising them over non-whites, to counteract existing demographic projections.

[Ifreann]

Because, obviously, the differences are largely inconsequential and it is intuitively logical that people will get over inconsequential differences. The people on the bus every day speaking Polish might seem strange when you've never heard Polish before, but after a while they're just people going to work.

Eastern Europeans and Slavs have been in the UK for a long time, and yet a figure like Nigel Farage can go on public platforms and publicly speak of a Romanian and Bulgarian "wave of crime" and not receive any backlash from his base

His base takes a different bus.

[Purgatio]

Racial tension and conflict is bad, I'm proposing a solution that reduces it. The fact that I can't reduce other sources of conflict doesn't mean I can't address this source of conflict.

I think to create a balance is not neccessary, most ethnic races will eventually decline due to globalism, and the rise of the mixed races will eventually come to fruition. No matter how you try and stop it, it will become a eventuality, and a portion of white men will be threatened. Your solution will not stop the decline of the white man, but it will increase racial tensions as many would find that, to prevent someone from entering the country due to skin color, may find that a tad problematic.

Sorry I missed this, as you can tell I'm responding to a lot of people so its natural I'll miss some comments by accident.

Anyway, the fact that the proportion of whites in the globe is likely to reduce in future because developed societies tend to have conditions that reduce fertility (higher education, high educational standards for women etc) does not mean that whites must become minorities in specific countries and societies. Japanese fertility rates are notoriously low, and Japan's population is expected to decline in future, but that doesn't mean ethnic Japanese need become a minority in Japan itself.

[Purgatio]

Racial tension and conflict is bad, I'm proposing a solution that reduces it. The fact that I can't reduce other sources of conflict doesn't mean I can't address this source of conflict.

It’s a poor short term solution. It’s like if the solution to homelessness was to just deport all the homeless.

I'm not suggesting the deportation of anyone. I'm suggesting that when Western societies give out new citizenship and permanent residency and long-term immigrant visas, they should take race into account and prioritise the majority race over others to reduce racial diversity. The harm caused by such a policy is not comparable to deporting all the homeless. This would be a valid response if I was proposing the deportation of all non-whites from Western societies (which would include me since I'm in the UK on a student visa), but I've never suggested anything of the sort.

[Purgatio]

The very fact that "white flight" and self-segregation is taking place within a diverse society suggests something about the mentality of those persons and intrinsic human nature. We avoid diversity precisely because we dislike it, we dislike being in an environment where we have to mix and mingle with persons who look, appear and sound extremely different from us. Forcing those persons into that same environment is unlikely to breed toleration, but resentment and entrenchment of existing racial prejudice.

We avoid diversity because we fear it and it isn't diversity itself which are pushing people away but the sheer scale of diversity today and the transformation that has occured in an average person's lifetime.The average person in the UK is 40.The amount of demographic transformation since 1979 has been huge.

The sheer scale and pace of that transformation is precisely the problem. It's one thing to suggest a gradual increase in racial diversity, which I don't support either, but the rapid pace at which whites are being reduced to a minority in the US and UK and the rapid depreciation of the proportion of whites in Canada and Australia is only going to push white people quickly towards fascism and the far-right, an obviously negative phenomenon.

[Ifreann]

I thought that changing migration trends wouldn't make any difference and white people would become a minority regardless because of fertility rates and median ages. I thought it would take extreme events like nuclear war to throw the projections off.

My solution was to actively adopt immigration policies that take race into account and try and reduce racial diversity. In the case of the US, UK and Canada, this means granting more citizenships and permanent residency to whites and prioritising them over non-whites, to counteract existing demographic projections.

And that's not nuclear war so it won't change the projections and white people will become a minority anyway. Kinda sounds like you want to have racist immigration policies just for the sake of it.

Hell, you can't possibly increase the number of white Britons in Britain by trying to import white people from outside of Britain, because those white people won't be white Britons, will they?

[Purgatio]

Eastern Europeans and Slavs have been in the UK for a long time, and yet a figure like Nigel Farage can go on public platforms and publicly speak of a Romanian and Bulgarian "wave of crime" and not receive any backlash from his base

His base takes a different bus.

Well that's convenient. Anyway, consider this 'hierarchy of hate crimes' report from The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/mar/07/london.race).

An individual South Asian is 13 times more likely than a White Brit to suffer a hate crime. Southern and Eastern Europeans are 8 times more likely.

In contrast, an individual Chinese or Japanese is 5 times more likely than a White Brit to suffer hate crimes, and its 3 times for individual Jews.

Why the difference? Could it be because Chinese, Japanese and Jews make a small proportions of the UK resident population, and hence are viewed by these racists as less of a threat to the position of White Brits compared to Slavs and South Asians?

[Purgatio]

My solution was to actively adopt immigration policies that take race into account and try and reduce racial diversity. In the case of the US, UK and Canada, this means granting more citizenships and permanent residency to whites and prioritising them over non-whites, to counteract existing demographic projections.

And that's not nuclear war so it won't change the projections and white people will become a minority anyway. Kinda sounds like you want to have racist immigration policies just for the sake of it.

Hell, you can't possibly increase the number of white Britons in Britain by trying to import white people from outside of Britain, because those white people won't be white Britons, will they?

As I've already said, I'm not white, what possible reason could I possibly want Western societies to adopt pro-white immigration policies even though I don't think it would help anything. I support it because I actually think it would make a difference and reduce racial resentment amongst the white population and stop driving the young white working-class into the arms of fascists.

[Senegalboy]

I thought that changing migration trends wouldn't make any difference and white people would become a minority regardless because of fertility rates and median ages. I thought it would take extreme events like nuclear war to throw the projections off.

My solution was to actively adopt immigration policies that take race into account and try and reduce racial diversity. In the case of the US, UK and Canada, this means granting more citizenships and permanent residency to whites and prioritising them over non-whites, to counteract existing demographic projections.

But that wouldn't be able to stop the future of a White minority US or Canada.
The UK is only 13% Non white and i do not believe that Whites will become a minority but in Canada and in the US Non Whites already make up 47% and 38% respectively and with Non whites having a higher birth rate than Whites in those countries without deportation of Non White people or a reduction of Non White birthrate it would be nearly impossible to maintain a white Majority.

[Alvecia]

It’s a poor short term solution. It’s like if the solution to homelessness was to just deport all the homeless.

I'm not suggesting the deportation of anyone. I'm suggesting that when Western societies give out new citizenship and permanent residency and long-term immigrant visas, they should take race into account and prioritise the majority race over others to reduce racial diversity. The harm caused by such a policy is not comparable to deporting all the homeless. This would be a valid response if I was proposing the deportation of all non-whites from Western societies (which would include me since I'm in the UK on a student visa), but I've never suggested anything of the sort.

The method may vary, but the result is the same. Your solution basically boils down to “just not have them here”. Just apply that same logic to homelessness. Bam, no more homeless.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Sorry I missed this, as you can tell I'm responding to a lot of people so its natural I'll miss some comments by accident.

Anyway, the fact that the proportion of whites in the globe is likely to reduce in future because developed societies tend to have conditions that reduce fertility (higher education, high educational standards for women etc) does not mean that whites must become minorities in specific countries and societies. Japanese fertility rates are notoriously low, and Japan's population is expected to decline in future, but that doesn't mean ethnic Japanese need become a minority in Japan itself.

While this is true, this cannot and will not be the status quo forever, as the world feels compelled to trade and immigrate for financial reasons. Like the suburbans economics dictated its creation, as many wealthy war veterans returned home to settle down. This next step for humanity cant be avoided as the lure of economics will always prevail.

[Purgatio]

My solution was to actively adopt immigration policies that take race into account and try and reduce racial diversity. In the case of the US, UK and Canada, this means granting more citizenships and permanent residency to whites and prioritising them over non-whites, to counteract existing demographic projections.

But that wouldn't be able to stop the future of a White minority US or Canada.
The UK is only 13% Non white and i do not believe that Whites will become a minority but in Canada and in the US Non Whites already make up 47% and 38% respectively and with Non whites having a higher birth rate than Whites in those countries without deportation of Non White people or a reduction of Non White birthrate it would be nearly impossible to maintain a white Majority.

Wait, Canada is 47% non-white? Really? That's surprising, do you have a statistic to back that up?

Anyway, there are ways to increase the white birthrate like adopting race-specific financial packages to incentive child-bearing. And that trend can be counteracted through an immigration policy that actively brings in more white immigrants and which doesn't renew visas for non-white migrants already in these societies.

[Purgatio]

I'm not suggesting the deportation of anyone. I'm suggesting that when Western societies give out new citizenship and permanent residency and long-term immigrant visas, they should take race into account and prioritise the majority race over others to reduce racial diversity. The harm caused by such a policy is not comparable to deporting all the homeless. This would be a valid response if I was proposing the deportation of all non-whites from Western societies (which would include me since I'm in the UK on a student visa), but I've never suggested anything of the sort.

The method may vary, but the result is the same. Your solution basically boils down to “just not have them here”. Just apply that same logic to homelessness. Bam, no more homeless.

Yes, but deporting the homeless causes them real harm, not granting citizenship to a non-white immigrant doesn't harm anyone.

[Purgatio]

Sorry I missed this, as you can tell I'm responding to a lot of people so its natural I'll miss some comments by accident.

Anyway, the fact that the proportion of whites in the globe is likely to reduce in future because developed societies tend to have conditions that reduce fertility (higher education, high educational standards for women etc) does not mean that whites must become minorities in specific countries and societies. Japanese fertility rates are notoriously low, and Japan's population is expected to decline in future, but that doesn't mean ethnic Japanese need become a minority in Japan itself.

While this is true, this cannot and will not be the status quo forever, as the world feels compelled to trade and immigrate for financial reasons. Like the suburbans economics dictated its creation, as many wealthy war veterans returned home to settle down. This next step for humanity cant be avoided as the lure of economics will always prevail.

If the lure of economics is really so strong why haven't wealthy countries which are integrated into the global economy like Japan, South Korea and Taiwan opened their doors and grant citizenship and permanent residency and immigrant visas to numerous non-Han, non-Korean and non-Japanese people?

[Senegalboy]

But that wouldn't be able to stop the future of a White minority US or Canada.
The UK is only 13% Non white and i do not believe that Whites will become a minority but in Canada and in the US Non Whites already make up 47% and 38% respectively and with Non whites having a higher birth rate than Whites in those countries without deportation of Non White people or a reduction of Non White birthrate it would be nearly impossible to maintain a white Majority.

Wait, Canada is 47% non-white? Really? That's surprising, do you have a statistic to back that up?

Anyway, there are ways to increase the white birthrate like adopting race-specific financial packages to incentive child-bearing. And that trend can be counteracted through an immigration policy that actively brings in more white immigrants and which doesn't renew visas for non-white migrants already in these societies.

The 2016 census
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-rece ... sable=true
I misread it is 43% Non White