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Is Fascism Inevitable in the Future of the West?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Is Fascism Inevitable in the Future of the West?

Yes
155
28%
No
374
68%
Other (Posting in Thread)
20
4%
 
Total votes : 549

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Aureumterra
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Ex-Nation

Is Fascism Inevitable in the Future of the West?

Postby Aureumterra » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:36 am

I just had a scary thought.

So I was pondering over the growing political divide and the increasingly vicious politics in the US and Western Europe, and I realized that this is scarily similar to post WW1 Italy. Opposing political factions are going to the extremes to get their politicians elected, and violence is rising solely due to politics. ANTIFA and Neo-Nazi groups are rioting with each other on the streets solely over politics. While I highly doubt there will be another international war in Europe or another civil war in the US, the rise of Mussolini’s Fascism seems scarily possible in the West. Fascism is the belief that democracy weakens nations and causes nations to divide and fight among themselves, and the ideal government should be run by an authoritarian third positionist government. Fascism claims to be a “third position” and the alternative government to “self defeating liberal democracy.” So while it may seem as if people have enough common sense to not buy into it, you have to keep in mind if things become so violent among opposing factions, civilian’s lives will be in danger, and people will become radicalized themselves in hopes of ending such division. My question for NSG is what is your opinion on this? Do you think Mussolini style Fascism will come about in the future of the West?

I really do think, unless people put aside their political differences, something like this will eventually happen. You can already see things escalating to violence in many parts of the West, and unless something happens, radical third positionist politicians will rise and gain mass public support with promises of ending the divide.
Last edited by Aureumterra on Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket
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Postby The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:42 am

Liberal democracy is perhaps unaffordable, but fascism remains far too much of a fringe for it to get the support it would need to seize power.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:47 am

The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket wrote:Liberal democracy is perhaps unaffordable, but fascism remains far too much of a fringe for it to get the support it would need to seize power.

The said the same thing about Germany in the 1930s. Or that fringe far right groups would never take power again. They did in Hungary

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The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket
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Postby The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:56 am

San Lumen wrote:
The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket wrote:Liberal democracy is perhaps unaffordable, but fascism remains far too much of a fringe for it to get the support it would need to seize power.

The said the same thing about Germany in the 1930s. Or that fringe far right groups would never take power again. They did in Hungary

Depression Era Germany was in a lot more desperate straights and depended on far right paramilitary to keep order. Not comparable.

I would not consider Hungary fascist
1 By the morning hours
2 And by the night when it is stillest,
3 Thy Lord hath not forsaken thee nor doth He hate thee,
4 And verily the latter portion will be better for thee than the former,
5 And verily thy Lord will give unto thee so that thou wilt be content.
6 Did He not find thee an orphan and protect (thee) ?
7 Did He not find thee wandering and direct (thee) ?
8 Did He not find thee destitute and enrich (thee) ?
9 Therefor the orphan oppress not,
10 Therefor the beggar drive not away,
11 Therefor of the bounty of thy Lord be thy discourse


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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:01 am

I'm fairly convinced that western civilization is on track for a socialist/communist vs fascist showdown as people on both sides sink more and more into extremism.
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Hanafuridake
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Postby Hanafuridake » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:02 am

No. Fascism in Italy came to power from vastly different conditions than exist in the United States. Mussolini managed to become premier of Italy because he had a band of rough army veterans combined with the financial support of agrarian landowners and industrialists who were impressed at how he was capable of beating up Reds and silencing the uppity farmers. Before 1920 when his Blackshirts started beating up Slavs and trade unionists, he was a total failure.

Unless a socialist revolution was on the horizon and David Duke managed to market himself to Amazon, Facebook, etc. as the one man who could stop the Reds, then he's going to remain a nobody.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:02 am

San Lumen wrote:
The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket wrote:Liberal democracy is perhaps unaffordable, but fascism remains far too much of a fringe for it to get the support it would need to seize power.

The said the same thing about Germany in the 1930s.

No they didn't.
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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:03 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:I'm fairly convinced that western civilization is on track for a socialist/communist vs fascist showdown as people on both sides sink more and more into extremism.

And it's all r/enightenedcentrism's fault.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:06 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:I'm fairly convinced that western civilization is on track for a socialist/communist vs fascist showdown as people on both sides sink more and more into extremism.

Sell us your gats instead of the fascists and we'll let you keep your toothbrush.
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:06 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:I'm fairly convinced that western civilization is on track for a socialist/communist vs fascist showdown as people on both sides sink more and more into extremism.


And people were convinced a Race War was imminent as both races radicalized into Black Panther vs. KKK.

That tensions exist is not an indicator that they will get worse or snap.
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North German Realm
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Postby North German Realm » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:07 am

While calling everyone you disagree with fascist has been the national past time of almost every country in the West ever since 1946, I'm not quite certain it is going to make a legitimate return. What we should fear about is Free Market Capitalists with Traditional-Authoritarian tendencies and a lack of care for humans, humanity, or human rights.
Last edited by North German Realm on Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:08 am

I would say no. Here in the United States you're probably not going to get any more extreme elected officials than Donald Trump (not that he is a fascist), and he is deeply unpopular. A good chunk of the people who think fascism is inevitably rising are wannabe bolsheviks who want an ultimate showdown.

Edit: Also a lot of the "fascists" today are people who simply get mislabeled as such for disagreeing with the left.
Last edited by LiberNovusAmericae on Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:09 am

North German Realm wrote:While calling everyone you disagree with fascist has been the national past time of almost everyone in the West ever since 1939, I'm not quite certain it is going to make a legitimate return. What we should fear about is Free Market Capitalists with Traditional-Authoritarian tendencies and a lack of care for humans, humanity, or human rights.

Fascism has been pretending not to be fascism since five minutes after someone thought that a fasces would look cool on a flag.
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:11 am

I'm all for it. I crave a uniform and some authority. Failing that, a guaranteed job as a citizen via the state giving me assignments and telling me what to do (if I can get at least a bearable wage). None of this resume competition and I don't need to vote anymore, so civics will be far easier. Just know your role and obey.

Also, anti-democratic ideals don't come about because "people are divided." It comes about because of primarily either economic problems such as a "Great Depression" or because of the failures of mainstream democratic parties on the issue of immigration or societal backlash to the direction it is heading in.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ch/583252/
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Israeli Defense Force
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Postby Israeli Defense Force » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:11 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:The said the same thing about Germany in the 1930s.

No they didn't.

Yes they did.

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North German Realm
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Postby North German Realm » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:12 am

Ifreann wrote:
North German Realm wrote:While calling everyone you disagree with fascist has been the national past time of almost everyone in the West ever since 1939, I'm not quite certain it is going to make a legitimate return. What we should fear about is Free Market Capitalists with Traditional-Authoritarian tendencies and a lack of care for humans, humanity, or human rights.

Fascism has been pretending not to be fascism since five minutes after someone thought that a fasces would look cool on a flag.

While that is not true in the first place, I'm not sure if "Free Market Capitalists with Traditional-Authoritarian tendencies and a lack of care for humans, humanity, or human rights" (such as the majority of the American-erected dictators in South America) would be called "fascist" by any standard other than the ever-popular "anything I don't like".
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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:12 am

I think dictatorship is inevitable
What kind is more about what idealogy is in vogue at the time
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Friently
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Postby Friently » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:12 am

Very well possible, i have for years believed that democracy at its base just weakens nations due to the sheer inability of people to make good reasonable choices (not a fascist just believe an alternative is needed). But this is not the thread for that, the point being that i notice that more and more people are partially getting the same belief. This due to the rampant radicalization from one side causing the other side to radicalize as well in an effort to prevent the other side from winning.

As well as a big reason being that governments are totally out of touch with the people.
Example here in the Netherlands, i've been working with lower/middle class people for some time and have heard their ideas and opinions.

People voted moderately for a balanced perspective.
They wanted less immigration, the last election the parties said they would stop immigration yet when elected were responsible for the largest influx ever. The people outraged.

Immigrants wanted to ban a century old children celebration for no valid reason whatsoever, their entire argument residing on misinformation and lies. The people love the celebration and the government allowed protesters to ruin celebrations for children by protesting and chanting right in the middle, massively angering the people. Some people blocked their entrance into the city where the festivities were happening to prevent them from ruining childrens childhoods. These people praised them as heroes, the government arrested all of them and some face years in prison. This utterly outraged people to the max.

Radicalised ISIS members want to come crawling back now the khalifate is crushed. Most people want to, and i quote "neckshot them all" for the things they did in Syria and why they did it. this may be going a bit far but refusing entry to literal terrorists is more than they deserve i'd say.
The government says they might be planning to give them free housing and put them under watch, utterly outraging the people.

The energy prices are ever rising due to the constant environmental policies that keep being signed despite others poluting much more than us. People want the prices down, gov keeps having them raised in the name of the environment. Again angering the populacy massively.

So is it really so strange that people swing to the extremes in the face of these actions?
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:15 am

North German Realm wrote:While calling everyone you disagree with fascist has been the national past time of almost every country in the West ever since 1946, I'm not quite certain it is going to make a legitimate return. What we should fear about is Free Market Capitalists with Traditional-Authoritarian tendencies and a lack of care for humans, humanity, or human rights.


So we shouldn't be worried about Fascists but we should be worried about corporatist authoritarians with a disregard for human life and little empathy in their ideology?

So fascists. We should be worried about fascists.
Last edited by Valrifell on Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:15 am

Friently wrote:Very well possible, i have for years believed that democracy at its base just weakens nations due to the sheer inability of people to make good reasonable choices (not a fascist just believe an alternative is needed). But this is not the thread for that, the point being that i notice that more and more people are partially getting the same belief. This due to the rampant radicalization from one side causing the other side to radicalize as well in an effort to prevent the other side from winning.

As well as a big reason being that governments are totally out of touch with the people.
Example here in the Netherlands, i've been working with lower/middle class people for some time and have heard their ideas and opinions.

People voted moderately for a balanced perspective.
They wanted less immigration, the last election the parties said they would stop immigration yet when elected were responsible for the largest influx ever. The people outraged.

Immigrants wanted to ban a century old children celebration for no valid reason whatsoever, their entire argument residing on misinformation and lies. The people love the celebration and the government allowed protesters to ruin celebrations for children by protesting and chanting right in the middle, massively angering the people. Some people blocked their entrance into the city where the festivities were happening to prevent them from ruining childrens childhoods. These people praised them as heroes, the government arrested all of them and some face years in prison. This utterly outraged people to the max.

Radicalised ISIS members want to come crawling back now the khalifate is crushed. Most people want to, and i quote "neckshot them all" for the things they did in Syria and why they did it. this may be going a bit far but refusing entry to literal terrorists is more than they deserve i'd say.
The government says they might be planning to give them free housing and put them under watch, utterly outraging the people.

The energy prices are ever rising due to the constant environmental policies that keep being signed despite others poluting much more than us. People want the prices down, gov keeps having them raised in the name of the environment. Again angering the populacy massively.

So is it really so strange that people swing to the extremes in the face of these actions?

Sheesh, this post went from something noteworthy to immigrant fearmongering real quick. Anyways I wanna point this out:
Friently wrote:Immigrants wanted to ban a century old children celebration

Which celebration are you talking about and prove it.
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North German Realm
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Postby North German Realm » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:16 am

Valrifell wrote:
North German Realm wrote:While calling everyone you disagree with fascist has been the national past time of almost every country in the West ever since 1946, I'm not quite certain it is going to make a legitimate return. What we should fear about is Free Market Capitalists with Traditional-Authoritarian tendencies and a lack of care for humans, humanity, or human rights.


So we shouldn't be worried about Fascists but we should be worried about corporatist authoritarians with a disregard for human life and little empathy in their ideology?

So fascists. We should be worried about fascists.

Corporatocrat authoritarians, actually, which are not fascists but a whole different kind of beast altogether.
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Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:18 am

Saiwania wrote:I'm all for it. I crave a uniform and some authority. Failing that, a guaranteed job as a citizen via the state giving me assignments and telling me what to do (if I can get at least a bearable wage). None of this resume competition and I don't need to vote anymore, so civics will be far easier. Just know your role and obey.

Also, anti-democratic ideals don't come about because "people are divided." It comes about because of primarily either economic problems such as a "Great Depression" or because of the failures of mainstream democratic parties on the issue of immigration or societal backlash to the direction it is heading in.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ch/583252/
Here is the best most insightful article I've found on immigration to date. While it's true that plenty of people are tolerant of different people moving into their country, there is at least a limit to where if there is too much- they lose patience with it and get behind closing that immigration off, if not to go more authoritarian to preserve what they have, because of the problems mass immigration and globalism brings.

And without migrants and immigrants many countries face large scale population decline which isnt nessacerily a bad thing

https://qz.com/1325640/the-european-cou ... that-dont/

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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:18 am

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I think dictatorship is inevitable
What kind is more about what idealogy is in vogue at the time

Woah. Okay, that's pretty pessimistic.
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Friently
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Postby Friently » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:18 am

The party that had the most votes in the recent election rose from literally nothing last election to top position this election. Why? Because they are in touch with the people, they are pressing on the issues that the people have. They listen. Or at least they make it look like it.

They do what all the other parties neglected to do, listen.
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Valrifell
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Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:18 am

North German Realm wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
So we shouldn't be worried about Fascists but we should be worried about corporatist authoritarians with a disregard for human life and little empathy in their ideology?

So fascists. We should be worried about fascists.

Corporatocrat authoritarians, actually, which are not fascists but a whole different kind of beast altogether.


They read as pretty chummy, at the very least.
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