Brunei plans to pass law to stone homosexuals

[Vojelneit]

That's a debated topic actually.

What if it wasn't? What if Sharia law clearly and unambiguously supported executing homosexuals. Would you support stoning homosexuals?

Sharia law on that matter is only ambiguous to those who want it to be. To anyone who doesn't actively wish to promote a pro-Islam agenda, the quotes I showed - amongst others - are extremely clear. It's very farfetched to deny that "kill the people of Lot" means anything other than "kill the people of Lot". Muslims who go to ridiculous lengths to find other interpretations than what is explicitly stated are just embarassed to admit that this is the sad, violent truth of their religion.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

In classical Islamic law, younger men were often segregated from older men in places of worship.

Prove that that is part of Shari'ah.

in fact the Quran does offer ‘handsome young boys’ along with virgins in paradise.

Not what that means.

What Islamic law only prohibited anal sex

And fornication, adultery, bestiality, rape, homosexual sex.

That's a debated topic actually.

What if it wasn't? What if Sharia law clearly and unambiguously supported executing homosexuals. Would you support stoning homosexuals?

The only way I would support this - and this is if homosexual sex is punishable by stoning - would be if it was quick. Again, I don't believe stoning for homosexual sex is part of Shari'ah.

[The New California Republic]

It doesn’t matter if there are or are not LGBT people in Brunei anyway, it’s a bad law either way.

Of course it matters. There was a claim that they don't really exist in Brunei. If there were no LGBT people in Brunei then this law would not have been created in the first place.

[Miharr]

This is just horrible. You should not be able to kill people for things they cannot change. To have it happen by stoning just makes it worse. This is just so wrong I don’t have any other words to display my disgust.

[Astoriya]

That's a debated topic actually.

What if it wasn't? What if Sharia law clearly and unambiguously supported executing homosexuals. Would you support stoning homosexuals?

What if? is the operative word here

This thread is about Brunei planning to pass a law to execute those found guilty of homosexuality by stoning
(yeah, got that thirty-seven days ago)

Oh. (Surprising, eh?)

When there's a subject so serious at stake I think it's fair to search for the root cause of the problem, so it can perhaps be fixed, you know?
(though the cause you picked isn't IMO the root cause)

So what's the root cause? (That's what I'm still trying to find out - I have my own suggestions)

All countries that currently have the death penalty for homosexuality are Muslim countries and Islam itself condones killing homosexuals. That's the reason Brunei, a country applying Sharia law,
(and civil law at the same time)

What does it matter that civil law is applied if Sharia law overrides it? (It does not override - both of them are used at the same time)

is enacting this law in the first place. I'm not at all off-topic
(didn't mention that, did I?)

Yes you did. You sarcastically commented that this was the "Islam-bashing thread" as if I was on the wrong thread. I'm not. My observation was entirely relevant to the topic. (Pull the other one.)

by pointing that out, nor am I bashing Islam by acknowledging that it does as a matter of fact advocate for homosexuals to be killed.
(the same thing can also be said for Christianity - it even contains the same story pertaining to Lot and his "people").

No. In the Bible (and also in the Quran, except with different names), it is God himself who destroys Sodom and Gomorrah and there is no physical, terrestrial, human intervention at any point. As the Hadith (Quran >overrides Hadith, as I see it) I quoted shows, Islam doesn't just warn homosexuals that they will be punished by God - it advocates for its believers themselves to take the matter in their own hands and kill them.

[Hebridasia]

This is absolutely horrific. World leaders should unite to oppose this hateful law.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

This is absolutely horrific. World leaders should unite to oppose this hateful law.

The UN needs a military so they can invade puny countries with shitty governments.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

What if it wasn't? What if Sharia law clearly and unambiguously supported executing homosexuals. Would you support stoning homosexuals?

Sharia law on that matter is only ambiguous to those who want it to be. To anyone who doesn't actively wish to promote a pro-Islam agenda, the quotes I showed - amongst others - are extremely clear. It's very farfetched to deny that "kill the people of Lot" means anything other than "kill the people of Lot". Muslims who go to ridiculous lengths to find other interpretations than what is explicitly stated are just embarassed to admit that this is the sad, violent truth of their religion.

You need to research Hadith authenticity. This Hadith is Hasan SaHeeH. The other Hadith says "Abu Dawud said: The tradition of 'Asim proved the tradition of 'Amir b. Abi 'Amr as weak."

[Vojelneit]

This is absolutely horrific. World leaders should unite to oppose this hateful law.

The UN needs a military so they can invade puny countries with shitty governments.

Totalitarian interventionism, no thanks.

Sharia law on that matter is only ambiguous to those who want it to be. To anyone who doesn't actively wish to promote a pro-Islam agenda, the quotes I showed - amongst others - are extremely clear. It's very farfetched to deny that "kill the people of Lot" means anything other than "kill the people of Lot". Muslims who go to ridiculous lengths to find other interpretations than what is explicitly stated are just embarassed to admit that this is the sad, violent truth of their religion.

You need to research Hadith authenticity. This Hadith is Hasan SaHeeH. The other Hadith says "Abu Dawud said: The tradition of 'Asim proved the tradition of 'Amir b. Abi 'Amr as weak."

Quit your taqiya.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

The UN needs a military so they can invade puny countries with shitty governments.

Totalitarian interventionism, no thanks.

You need to research Hadith authenticity. This Hadith is Hasan SaHeeH. The other Hadith says "Abu Dawud said: The tradition of 'Asim proved the tradition of 'Amir b. Abi 'Amr as weak."

Quit your taqiya.

Well I guess we're done here lol
I tell ya, this must be the only Islamic word anti-Islamers/islamophobes understand lol. Heck, you could show them 20 books proving them wrong and they're like "TAQIYYAAAAAAAAH!!!"

[Caliphate of Harlem]

In classical Islamic law, younger men were often segregated from older men in places of worship.

Prove that that is part of Shari'ah.

in fact the Quran does offer ‘handsome young boys’ along with virgins in paradise.

Not what that means.

What Islamic law only prohibited anal sex

And fornication, adultery, bestiality, rape, homosexual sex.

What if it wasn't? What if Sharia law clearly and unambiguously supported executing homosexuals. Would you support stoning homosexuals?

The only way I would support this - and this is if homosexual sex is punishable by stoning - would be if it was quick. Again, I don't believe stoning for homosexual sex is part of Shari'ah.

I cited my sources, two historical surveys by reputable scholars who’ve made a career studying this shit that far outlasts you surfing ‘sheikh google’. Go back and look them up.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Totalitarian interventionism, no thanks.

So now democracy is totalitarian.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Prove that that is part of Shari'ah.

Not what that means.

And fornication, adultery, bestiality, rape, homosexual sex.

The only way I would support this - and this is if homosexual sex is punishable by stoning - would be if it was quick. Again, I don't believe stoning for homosexual sex is part of Shari'ah.

I cited my sources, two historical surveys by reputable scholars who’ve made a career studying this s*it that far outlasts you surfing ‘sheikh google’. Go back and look them up.

I didn't use google.
I also don't understand the "sheikh google" quip. Literally in everything you search, you use google anyways, so I don't understand how that's a good argument. Heck you probably got that quote by going on Google and searching either it or those to people you cited (assuming you don't have a book on it).

[Far Easter Republic]

Brunei's state religion is Islam and it adopted Sharia law. As such it is applying Islam's teachings on homosexuality.

Book 40, Hadith 112: "The Prophet said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done."
https://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/112
And the hadith right after that: "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death."
https://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/113

The root of the problem is Islam.

The people of Sodom.demanded Lot turn the incognito angels over to them for a session of Deliverance. So that hadith could be interpreted as "The Prophet said if you find a rape in progress, kill the rapist as well as the victim."

Here we go... Trouble in Eastern Asia episode 234, Touchy Feelly

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Totalitarian interventionism, no thanks.

So now democracy is totalitarian.

They way you wanna use it, yes.

[Vojelneit]

Totalitarian interventionism, no thanks.

So now democracy is totalitarian.

No, democracy isn't totalitarian, but trying to force democracy on countries is a totalitarian practice, especially since such interventionism could easily be used as the largely USA-oriented UN to overthrow any regimes that poses a problem to their interests as has been seen in Iraq.

Quit your taqiya.

Well I guess we're done here lol
I tell ya, this must be the only Islamic word anti-Islamers/islamophobes understand lol. Heck, you could show them 20 books proving them wrong and they're like "TAQIYYAAAAAAAAH!!!"

There's no such thing as "Islamophobia". There's only those who understand Islam and those who don't. You constantly play on ambiguity and extremely farfetched double speech/interpretations to excuse the vilest aspects of your religion. I say that's taqiya because I don't think anyone could honestly, sincerely deny something explicit and written in plain text like you do.
Now if some Hadiths are less reliable than others, then that just goes to prove that Islam is fiercely flawed and outdated. The bigger problem resides in the fact that many Islamic regimes around the world don't think like you do and that they don't hesitate to enact the death penalty for homosexuals.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

There's no such thing as "Islamophobia".

I guess all the terrorists killing Muslims aren't islamophobes now

You constantly play on ambiguity and extremely farfetched double speech/interpretations to excuse the vilest aspects of your religion.

Dude you used sketchy aHaadith. Just admit you're error and learn from it.

Now if some Hadiths are less reliable than others, then that just goes to prove that Islam is fiercely flawed and outdated.

"If some scientists find out that their experiment was flawed, then they're stupid". That's pretty much what you're saying right now. Verifying the authenticity of something doesn't prove a whole subject faulty.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Brunei's state religion is Islam and it adopted Sharia law. As such it is applying Islam's teachings on homosexuality.

Book 40, Hadith 112: "The Prophet said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done."
https://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/112
And the hadith right after that: "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death."
https://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/113

The root of the problem is Islam.

The root problem is any radicalised state religion.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

So now democracy is totalitarian.

They way you wanna use it, yes.

How? Giving people rights and the ability to choose their government is a good thing. I don’t think you know what totalitarian means. It’s at least a bit ironic you of all people are accusing me of being totalitarian.

No, democracy isn't totalitarian, but trying to force democracy on countries is a totalitarian practice, especially since such interventionism could easily be used as the largely USA-oriented UN to overthrow any regimes that poses a problem to their interests as has been seen in Iraq.

It’s even more ironic a third positionist says this is totalitarian. It would make sense, commies and fascists don’t like Western freedom.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

They way you wanna use it, yes.

How? Giving people rights and the ability to choose their government is a good thing. I don’t think you know what totalitarian means. It’s at least a bit ironic you of all people are accusing me of being totalitarian.

I would consider forcing something on someone to be leaning over there, yes.

[Farnhamia]

Absolutely appalling! Stoning is atavistic and barbaric. They should be hanged.

Absolutely appalling! Stoning is atavistic and barbaric. They should be hanged.

Throwing them off buildings would appear to me more traditionally correct in recent practice. But it is not our place to interfere with the internal affairs or spiritual beliefs of other sovereign nations, or instruct them in the traditions of their own culture.

This has been an official communiqué of the

Nunya Bidness Ministry of Information

Absolutely appalling! Stoning is atavistic and barbaric. They should be hanged.

Hanging is atavistic and barbaric. They should be electrocuted!

Buffmania, Nunya Bidness, Caliphate of Harlem: *** Warned for trolling ***

[Marxist Germany]

"If some scientists find out that their experiment was flawed, then they're stupid". That's pretty much what you're saying right now. Verifying the authenticity of something doesn't prove a whole subject faulty.

No, it shows that you are not willing to accept your own scripture if it doesn't suit you

[El-Amin Caliphate]

"If some scientists find out that their experiment was flawed, then they're stupid". That's pretty much what you're saying right now. Verifying the authenticity of something doesn't prove a whole subject faulty.

No, it shows that you are not willing to accept your own scripture if it doesn't suit you

Do you know what Hadith verification is and how it works?

[Vojelneit]

You constantly play on ambiguity and extremely farfetched double speech/interpretations to excuse the vilest aspects of your religion.

Dude you used sketchy aHaadith. Just admit you're error and learn from it.

Now if some Hadiths are less reliable than others, then that just goes to prove that Islam is fiercely flawed and outdated.

"If some scientists find out that their experiment was flawed, then they're stupid". That's pretty much what you're saying right now. Verifying the authenticity of something doesn't prove a whole subject faulty.

Not my fault the most important texts of your faith contain unreliable information... But as I've said, this doesn't stop many Islamic regimes for applying this information you deem sketchy. Are they all wrong too? How come this is so commonplace?

They way you wanna use it, yes.

How? Giving people rights and the ability to choose their government is a good thing. I don’t think you know what totalitarian means. It’s at least a bit ironic you of all people are accusing me of being totalitarian.

No, democracy isn't totalitarian, but trying to force democracy on countries is a totalitarian practice, especially since such interventionism could easily be used as the largely USA-oriented UN to overthrow any regimes that poses a problem to their interests as has been seen in Iraq.

It’s even more ironic a third positionist says this is totalitarian. It would make sense, commies and fascists don’t like Western freedom.

Lol.

"If you don't want our freedom, we're gonna force it upon you, you dirty authoritarian fascist!"

Do I really have to explain the paradox?

You want to impose "freedom". Imposing things is an authoritarian practice in the strictest sense of the term, and in the case of imposing a regime change, I'd say it gets dangerously close to ideological/diplomatic totalitarianism. And "imposing freedom" doesn't make sense. it's literally a paradox and if the UN had the power to get rid of any regime that THEY (and THEY alone) deem idiotic, it's extremely likely to be abused by the major powers that hold a lot of influence on the institution, which is an even bigger problem in my opinion.

This is the last post I'll make on this subject -- otherwise I'll be accused of threadjacking again...

[Far Easter Republic]

Brunei's state religion is Islam and it adopted Sharia law. As such it is applying Islam's teachings on homosexuality.

Book 40, Hadith 112: "The Prophet said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done."
https://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/112
And the hadith right after that: "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death."
https://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/113

The root of the problem is Islam.

The root problem is any radicalised state religion.

Like Saudi Arabia?