Brunei plans to pass law to stone homosexuals

[Gormwood]

But they buy our weapons systems so they apparently go in the "Allies" column.

1. Who said that a customer is an ally?-Going by business logic that's a totally unlogic assumption and wrong conclusion. If anything, the customer is the prey.
2. Even if they would be an ally, WHO cares?-All that there is is business, and that's it. Just dissolve those semites, yet antisemitics, into their very molecules.

You must have missed the part where Trump took the side of MBS over American intelligence on the Khashoggi murder.

[TheBadMan]

Right, to me, it's such a mystery as to why we, as the US, are still allies with them. The "war on terror" apparently doesn't apply to these people. They are the most two faced liars the world has ever seen. On one hand, they claim to be against extremism and for reform, but that is CLEARLY not reflected through their policies and actions.

They're causing a humanitarian crisis in Yemen, gave the 9/11 terrorists passports, have almost single handedly used their oil wealth to finance the rise of extremism throughout the Middle East, and we can plainly see the results of that, when idiot laws such as this get passed. But apparently, since MBS allows women to drive, he's some sort of reformer. What the fuck?

MBS came to power illegitimately, kills our journalists, finances the rise of extremist policies throughout the world, then lies to our faces about "reform" and "change," and we're still allies with them? There may be legitimate reformers within the Muslim community, but Saudi Arabia is clearly not among them, and are the biggest reason the reform in the Islamic World is being held back. If we want to stop laws like this from getting passed, we need to actually show them that this shit is intolerable, and limit the global influence they currently have.

Eh, pretty much everyone realizes they are backstabbing unreliable scum of a government at best. The real reason we back them is lack of a credible alternative.

Pretty much nobody in the west would cry if the Saudi regime was replaced by a less vile one.
The problem is the Saudi regime is not spreading radicalism from personal preference (the royal family are notorious for their libertine lifestyles) but as a way to appease the populace.

Radical Islam in Saudi Arabia comes from the bottom up just as much as it is enforced from the top down. Of course enforcing Radical Islamit to appease a radically Islamist populace just creates a self perpetuating cycle of horror.

Still knocking out the government that uses it to survive does not fix it.

It could easily result in something even worse.

I'd beg to differ on the whole personal preference point of your argument. I agree with you in the sense that it's bad for such an ideology (Wahhabism) to exist in the first place, and that such a thing existing is necessary for governing policy like this to come about in the first place, but the government is surely exacerbating the problem.

If this was being done simply to appease an extremists population, they wouldn't be shelling out 10s of billions of dollars to finance it around the world. If it was being done to appease to populace of extremists this would be limited to internal policy only. And plus, since they've shown ultimately money matters more than actual religous teachings, they could've easily financed the rise of moderate Islam as well. They could've done great things with the wealth they came by, but they chose to do this.

[TheBadMan]

1. Who said that a customer is an ally?-Going by business logic that's a totally unlogic assumption and wrong conclusion. If anything, the customer is the prey.
2. Even if they would be an ally, WHO cares?-All that there is is business, and that's it. Just dissolve those semites, yet antisemitics, into their very molecules.

You must have missed the part where Trump took the side of MBS over American intelligence on the Khashoggi murder.

And that's another problem here. This isn't necessarily only Trump's fault, and Obama is guilty of this as well, but for all our president's talk of "We must call out Islamic Terrorism by name," and other talk of going tough on terror, it all apparently translates to jackshit in terms of policy, as shown by the fact that our leaders are content to pay for our oil with the blood of those killed by the terrorists they influence.

[Zhanyadha]

1. Who said that a customer is an ally?-Going by business logic that's a totally unlogic assumption and wrong conclusion. If anything, the customer is the prey.
2. Even if they would be an ally, WHO cares?-All that there is is business, and that's it. Just dissolve those semites, yet antisemitics, into their very molecules.

You must have missed the part where Trump took the side of MBS over American intelligence on the Khashoggi murder.

I have not. Also, I live in the Western world, yes, but I am not from Trumpland/Trumpistan.
Besides the USA aren't the only nation possessing nuclear weaponry.

Awful. 3 wrong assumptions in just 1 comment.

[TheBadMan]

You must have missed the part where Trump took the side of MBS over American intelligence on the Khashoggi murder.

I have not. Also, I live in the Western world, yes, but I am not from Trumpland/Trumpistan.
Besides the USA aren't the only nation possessing nuclear weaponry.

Awful. 3 wrong assumptions in just 1 comment.

What are you even saying? Nuclear weaponry has fuck all to do with this.

[Zhanyadha]

You must have missed the part where Trump took the side of MBS over American intelligence on the Khashoggi murder.

And that's another problem here. This isn't necessarily only Trump's fault, and Obama is guilty of this as well, but for all our president's talk of "We must call out Islamic Terrorism by name," and other talk of going tough on terror, it all apparently translates to jackshit in terms of policy, as shown by the fact that our leaders are content to pay for our oil with the blood of those killed by the terrorists they influence.

As I stated before, the oil is not the problem. The OPEC however, and a bunch of western wimps, is.

[TheBadMan]

And that's another problem here. This isn't necessarily only Trump's fault, and Obama is guilty of this as well, but for all our president's talk of "We must call out Islamic Terrorism by name," and other talk of going tough on terror, it all apparently translates to jackshit in terms of policy, as shown by the fact that our leaders are content to pay for our oil with the blood of those killed by the terrorists they influence.

As I stated before, the oil is not the problem. The OPEC however, and a bunch of western wimps, is.

OPEC?

[Novus America]

Eh, pretty much everyone realizes they are backstabbing unreliable scum of a government at best. The real reason we back them is lack of a credible alternative.

Pretty much nobody in the west would cry if the Saudi regime was replaced by a less vile one.
The problem is the Saudi regime is not spreading radicalism from personal preference (the royal family are notorious for their libertine lifestyles) but as a way to appease the populace.

Radical Islam in Saudi Arabia comes from the bottom up just as much as it is enforced from the top down. Of course enforcing Radical Islamit to appease a radically Islamist populace just creates a self perpetuating cycle of horror.

Still knocking out the government that uses it to survive does not fix it.

It could easily result in something even worse.

I'd beg to differ on the whole personal preference point of your argument. I agree with you in the sense that it's bad for such an ideology (Wahhabism) to exist in the first place, and that such a thing existing is necessary for governing policy like this to come about in the first place, but the government is surely exacerbating the problem.

If this was being done simply to appease an extremists population, they wouldn't be shelling out 10s of billions of dollars to finance it around the world. If it was being done to appease to populace of extremists this would be limited to internal policy only. And plus, since they've shown ultimately money matters more than actual religous teachings, they could've easily financed the rise of moderate Islam as well. They could've done great things with the wealth they came by, but they chose to do this.

Sure, I agree it is not solely to appease the populace, but it is important to note the Saudis came to power and keep in power by their Faustian bargain with the Wahhabis clerics and their follows amongst the population. And those clerics and their followers very much want money spent to export it abroad. If it was spent on more moderate Islam the Wahhabis would view that as spending the money on heresy.

And I agree the Saudi royals are helping perpetuate the cycle, but given their lifestyles it is quite clear they personally do not believe in it all that much.

They do it out of political considerations more than religious convictions.

[Novus America]

You must have missed the part where Trump took the side of MBS over American intelligence on the Khashoggi murder.

And that's another problem here. This isn't necessarily only Trump's fault, and Obama is guilty of this as well, but for all our president's talk of "We must call out Islamic Terrorism by name," and other talk of going tough on terror, it all apparently translates to jackshit in terms of policy, as shown by the fact that our leaders are content to pay for our oil with the blood of those killed by the terrorists they influence.

We actually get very little oil from Saudi Arabia.
Thomas Jefferson has a quote that explains it best.

“But as it is, we have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go.”

[Zhanyadha]

I have not. Also, I live in the Western world, yes, but I am not from Trumpland/Trumpistan.
Besides the USA aren't the only nation possessing nuclear weaponry.

Awful. 3 wrong assumptions in just 1 comment.

What are you even saying? Nuclear weaponry has fuck all to do with this.

I am saying: Nuke all of it. Just blow Riyadh to pieces. It's in the middle of a desert already, so the radiation won't be a problem. Just make it disappear under one huge, nice mushroom cloud.
That's what I am saying.

[TheBadMan]

What are you even saying? Nuclear weaponry has fuck all to do with this.

I am saying: Nuke all of it. Just blow Riyadh to pieces. It's in the middle of a desert already, so the radiation won't be a problem. Just make it disappear under one huge, nice mushroom cloud.
That's what I am saying.

I too love some nice war crimes for breakfast.

[Gormwood]

What are you even saying? Nuclear weaponry has fuck all to do with this.

I am saying: Nuke all of it. Just blow Riyadh to pieces. It's in the middle of a desert already, so the radiation won't be a problem. Just make it disappear under one huge, nice mushroom cloud.
That's what I am saying.

Sure, guarantee that every single remaining Muslim in the world turns into the Wahhabist caricature that you're terrified of by nuking Mecca. Absolutely nothing can go wrong there. Plus the whole deal about war crimes.

[Farnhamia]

What are you even saying? Nuclear weaponry has fuck all to do with this.

I am saying: Nuke all of it. Just blow Riyadh to pieces. It's in the middle of a desert already, so the radiation won't be a problem. Just make it disappear under one huge, nice mushroom cloud.
That's what I am saying.

*** Warned for trolling. ***

[Zhanyadha]

As I stated before, the oil is not the problem. The OPEC however, and a bunch of western wimps, is.

OPEC?

Yes, the OPEC. Saudi-Arabia is a part of it, isn't it?-Our western wimps (politicians) are afraid of a cultureless barbarian with a sabre, sitting on oil wells. They weren't that afraid back in 2003.

[Zhanyadha]

I am saying: Nuke all of it. Just blow Riyadh to pieces. It's in the middle of a desert already, so the radiation won't be a problem. Just make it disappear under one huge, nice mushroom cloud.
That's what I am saying.

*** Warned for trolling. ***

I wasn't trolling, but ok. Thanks.

[TheBadMan]

I'd beg to differ on the whole personal preference point of your argument. I agree with you in the sense that it's bad for such an ideology (Wahhabism) to exist in the first place, and that such a thing existing is necessary for governing policy like this to come about in the first place, but the government is surely exacerbating the problem.

If this was being done simply to appease an extremists population, they wouldn't be shelling out 10s of billions of dollars to finance it around the world. If it was being done to appease to populace of extremists this would be limited to internal policy only. And plus, since they've shown ultimately money matters more than actual religous teachings, they could've easily financed the rise of moderate Islam as well. They could've done great things with the wealth they came by, but they chose to do this.

Sure, I agree it is not solely to appease the populace, but it is important to note the Saudis came to power and keep in power by their Faustian bargain with the Wahhabis clerics and their follows amongst the population. And those clerics and their followers very much want money spent to export it abroad. If it was spent on more moderate Islam the Wahhabis would view that as spending the money on heresy.

And I agree the Saudi royals are helping perpetuate the cycle, but given their lifestyles it is quite clear they personally do not believe in it all that much.

They do it out of political considerations more than religious convictions.

True enough. Regardless of their motive, they're spreading this horrible ideology, and something needs to be done about it. Whether that's supporting a more moderate government, or imploring a more moderate Muslim nation to try and fund moderate Islam, this cannot stand. We cannot have this extremism continue to spread and propagate and corrupt more and more of the Muslim youth.

And that's another problem here. This isn't necessarily only Trump's fault, and Obama is guilty of this as well, but for all our president's talk of "We must call out Islamic Terrorism by name," and other talk of going tough on terror, it all apparently translates to jackshit in terms of policy, as shown by the fact that our leaders are content to pay for our oil with the blood of those killed by the terrorists they influence.

We actually get very little oil from Saudi Arabia.
Thomas Jefferson has a quote that explains it best.

“But as it is, we have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go.”

That's a fairly apt explanation for it, yeah.

[Zhanyadha]

Yes, the OPEC. Saudi-Arabia is a part of it, isn't it?-Our western wimps (politicians) are afraid of a cultureless barbarian with a sabre, sitting on oil wells. They weren't that afraid back in 2003.

You were just warned for talk like that man.

Hey, I am not trolling, I have no idea why they assumed I were. Also I am just participating in this conversation.

[Novus America]

Sure, I agree it is not solely to appease the populace, but it is important to note the Saudis came to power and keep in power by their Faustian bargain with the Wahhabis clerics and their follows amongst the population. And those clerics and their followers very much want money spent to export it abroad. If it was spent on more moderate Islam the Wahhabis would view that as spending the money on heresy.

And I agree the Saudi royals are helping perpetuate the cycle, but given their lifestyles it is quite clear they personally do not believe in it all that much.

They do it out of political considerations more than religious convictions.

True enough. Regardless of their motive, they're spreading this horrible ideology, and something needs to be done about it. Whether that's supporting a more moderate government, or imploring a more moderate Muslim nation to try and fund moderate Islam, this cannot stand. We cannot have this extremism continue to spread and propagate and corrupt more and more of the Muslim youth.

We actually get very little oil from Saudi Arabia.
Thomas Jefferson has a quote that explains it best.

“But as it is, we have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go.”

That's a fairly apt explanation for it, yeah.

I agree. The current situation is absolutely intolerable.
But delicate and difficult with no easy answers.

[TheBadMan]

*** Warned for trolling. ***

I wasn't trolling, but ok. Thanks.

Human lives are clearly very important to you...

[Farnhamia]

You were just warned for talk like that man.

Hey, I am not trolling, I have no idea why they assumed I were. Also I am just participating in this conversation.

You advocated the wholesale slaughter of actual human beings. That's trolling. You may appeal in the Moderation forum if you think I was unjust in so ruling.

[Gormwood]

You were just warned for talk like that man.

Hey, I am not trolling, I have no idea why they assumed I were. Also I am just participating in this conversation.

Calling for Saudi Arabia to be nuked whether you were serious or trying to get a rise is trolling here.

[Zhanyadha]

Hey, I am not trolling, I have no idea why they assumed I were. Also I am just participating in this conversation.

You advocated the wholesale slaughter of actual human beings. That's trolling. You may appeal in the Moderation forum if you think I was unjust in so ruling.

Ah, ok, thank you. I guess the IRL-sultan of Brunei should get this, too, which would lead us right back to the actual topic this thread is about.

[Farnhamia]

You advocated the wholesale slaughter of actual human beings. That's trolling. You may appeal in the Moderation forum if you think I was unjust in so ruling.

Ah, ok, thank you. I guess the IRL-sultan of Brunei should get this, too, which would lead us right back to the actual topic this thread is about.

He would, were he posting here in that fashion, and yes, back to the topic.

[TheBadMan]

You advocated the wholesale slaughter of actual human beings. That's trolling. You may appeal in the Moderation forum if you think I was unjust in so ruling.

Ah, ok, thank you. I guess the IRL-sultan of Brunei should get this, too, which would lead us right back to the actual topic this thread is about.

Mindlessly killing people will not solve anything. This law likely had some popular support as well, and killing the current ruler of Brunei will just result in an even more extremist government coming to power, with even more popular support; The population will support people who are opposed to the people that killed their leader.

[Farnhamia]

Ah, ok, thank you. I guess the IRL-sultan of Brunei should get this, too, which would lead us right back to the actual topic this thread is about.

Mindlessly killing people will not solve anything. This law likely had some popular support as well, and killing the current ruler of Brunei will just result in an even more extremist government coming to power, with even more popular support; The population will support people who are opposed to the people that killed their leader.

Zhanyadha wasn't talking about knocking off the Sultan but rather warning him with Red Text for supporting the stoning law.