Brunei plans to pass law to stone homosexuals

[Ostroeuropa]

Reminder that the majority of Muslims in the UK support making homosexuality illegal. This is not due to third world conditions, or dictatorship, or what have you, but a direct consequence of the worldview Islam propagates.

When are we going to stop pretending Islamic civilization and values have any place in the modern world?

If a largely defanged Christianity now has a place in the modern world, why not a reformed Islam?

We defanged Christianity through massive amounts of violence against christians and the clergy until they became a rump religion. Granted, it was violence in self-defence a lot of the time, but not always.

Reminder that the majority of Muslims in the UK support making homosexuality illegal. This is not due to third world conditions, or dictatorship, or what have you, but a direct consequence of the worldview Islam propagates.

When are we going to stop pretending Islamic civilization and values have any place in the modern world?

I have MANY problems with Islam but saying it does not have any value in the world is to harsh. I mean does this apply to Christianity (which it aint much better than Islam) as well?

Western Christians don't tend to support banning people from existing in society for things they can't help. At their worst, they oppose gay marriage. That IS much better.

Reminder that the majority of Muslims in the UK support making homosexuality illegal. This is not due to third world conditions, or dictatorship, or what have you, but a direct consequence of the worldview Islam propagates.

When are we going to stop pretending Islamic civilization and values have any place in the modern world?

Should all traces of Islam and Muslims be forcibly removed from the West by any means then?

No. Simply stop trying to placate them and enforce our values in the law regardless of whether they hate it or not. They can either leave, obey, or riot and go to prison. A big one would be banning circumcision.

[Communist Zombie Horde]

Oh, we’re promoting child labor now?

No, children can ethically have light labor (like they already do) and private school can be affordable. The market will fix it. Lots of high school and college students have part time jobs and are working for their education. And your parents can make you dumb whether they can pay for school or not. Widespread private schools for all existed until the commies took that away,

[Farnhamia]

Oh, we’re promoting child labor now?

No, children can ethically have light labor (like they already do) and private school can be affordable. The market will fix it. Lots of high school and college students have part time jobs and are working for their education. And your parents can make you dumb whether they can pay for school or not. Widespread private schools for all existed until the commies took that away,

Which has what to do with Brunei stoning homosexuals?

[Communist Zombie Horde]

Muslims are only good if they are agree with reactionaries in the west and Russia.

... dude, the IC forums are a click and a scroll away. Shoo.

I’m just tryin to defend the interests of my zombie hordes and destroy liberalism.

[Gormwood]

Should all traces of Islam and Muslims be forcibly removed from the West by any means then?

No. Simply stop trying to placate them and enforce our values in the law regardless of whether they hate it or not. They can either leave, obey, or riot and go to prison. A big one would be banning circumcision.

So just carry on as usual in other words. Unless you can bring up evidence of Muslims in the West being granted special exemptions from the rule of law.

[Communist Zombie Horde]

Which has what to do with Brunei stoning homosexuals?

Okay

I think this is wrong but America has no involvement in other country affairs- especially one so puny as Brunei. I don’t think homosexual acts should be as encouraged as liberals believe but this takes it too far. They are rightful to fear progressive policies but I don’t like Islamist policies either. It’s a tricky situation and American officials should be cautious on what they say.

[Ostroeuropa]

No. Simply stop trying to placate them and enforce our values in the law regardless of whether they hate it or not. They can either leave, obey, or riot and go to prison. A big one would be banning circumcision.

So just carry on as usual in other words. Unless you can bring up evidence of Muslims in the West being granted special exemptions from the rule of law.

They have crippled progress and caused a chilling effect on issues such as free speech. It was in large part due to Islamic violent reaction and protest that "offensiveness" laws were passed in the UK related to the Mohammed cartoon debacle.

Another example is the recent way Islamic protesters shut down equalities education because they objected to the notion of LGBT people being acknowledged as human beings with rights, to which the schools capitulated.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... st-parents

There's been plenty of accommodations made to their religion when none should have been.

Crippled progress on issues like circumcision is another example; despite a massive majority of the public backing it being banned, politicians wont touch the issue and help the public create a country in line with their values, because the fact of the matter is their values being promoted are incompatible with Islam existing in this country.

The presence of Muslims has also led to the propogation of animal torture in the united kingdom due to their demand for halal meat, which is exempt from animal slaughter standards as a religious accomodation. (Every animal charity has concluded that the standards are necessary to prevent the animal suffering before death.).

This is worsened by Muslims demanding main stores like Subway and McDonalds accomodate them and sell halal versions or they call them racist and islamophobic, many corporations simply adopt halal meat now.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/foo ... reggs-kfc/

So it means animal torture goes well beyond merely Muslim demand for it, and impacts on meat demands from other citizens too who may not be aware the meat they are getting does not meet basic slaughter standards.

[Communist Zombie Horde]

So just carry on as usual in other words. Unless you can bring up evidence of Muslims in the West being granted special exemptions from the rule of law.

They have crippled progress and caused a chilling effect on issues such as free speech. It was in large part due to Islamic violent reaction and protest that "offensiveness" laws were passed in the UK related to the Mohammed cartoon debacle.

Another example is the recent way Islamic protesters shut down equalities education because they objected to the notion of LGBT people being acknowledged as human beings with rights, to which the schools capitulated.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... st-parents

There's been plenty of accommodations made to their religion when none should have been.

Crippled progress on issues like circumcision is another example; despite a massive majority of the public backing it being banned, politicians wont touch the issue and help the public create a country in line with their values, because the fact of the matter is their values being promoted are incompatible with Islam existing in this country.

The presence of Muslims has also led to the propogation of animal torture in the united kingdom due to their demand for halal meat, which is exempt from animal slaughter standards as a religious accomodation. (Every animal charity has concluded that the standards are necessary to prevent the animal suffering before death.).

This is worsened by Muslims demanding main stores like Subway and McDonalds accomodate them and sell halal versions or they call them racist and islamophobic, many corporations simply adopt halal meat now.

The guardian is a notoriously unreliable news source.

[Communist Zombie Horde]

Breitbart, Fox, etc. are even more unreliable.

???
I don’t even read Fox, what the hell are you talking about. Don’t get this off topic again.

[Duhon]

If a largely defanged Christianity now has a place in the modern world, why not a reformed Islam?

We defanged Christianity through massive amounts of violence against christians and the clergy until they became a rump religion. Granted, it was violence in self-defence a lot of the time, but not always.

So east of the Iron Curtain... and...? I largely have no idea what you're referring to, but even if that were the case, what makes going to war on Western Muslims a necessary option, over and above matching rhetoric with rhetoric, proposal with counterproposal, and dealing with violent people like you would other violent people?

[Ostroeuropa]

We defanged Christianity through massive amounts of violence against christians and the clergy until they became a rump religion. Granted, it was violence in self-defence a lot of the time, but not always.

So east of the Iron Curtain... and...? I largely have no idea what you're referring to, but even if that were the case, what makes going to war on Western Muslims a necessary option, over and above matching rhetoric with rhetoric, proposal with counterproposal, and dealing with violent people like you would other violent people?

The reformation wars and ultimately the state putting the bootheel to the church and telling it to stop mucking about? Or anti-clericalism in general across most of Europe? (Portugal, for instance, and Spain). Or if you want the final example, the defeat of fascism in the west and its Catholic backers?

You don't need to go to war with western muslims per se. Just pass laws in line with modern public values like secular education, circumcision bans and so on, roll back the offensiveness laws and start mocking Mohammed and Islam again in the mainstream. (The importance of people like Voltaire in undermining the power of christianity is often forgotten. Laughing at them and their pretensions is important.).

Then, as always, use state violence (The police) to crack down and arrest all criminals. We're failing to outlaw things the public clearly wants outlawed because it would mean arresting too many Muslims. Fuck that.

[Ertae]

And what can the UN do to stop this poor excuse of a government from carrying out this evil?

[Gormwood]

So just carry on as usual in other words. Unless you can bring up evidence of Muslims in the West being granted special exemptions from the rule of law.

They have crippled progress and caused a chilling effect on issues such as free speech. It was in large part due to Islamic violent reaction and protest that "offensiveness" laws were passed in the UK related to the Mohammed cartoon debacle.

I'd like some sources to analyze.

Another example is the recent way Islamic protesters shut down equalities education because they objected to the notion of LGBT people being acknowledged as human beings with rights, to which the schools capitulated.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... st-parents

It looks to be a normal example of people with strong Abrahamic upbringing protesting school lessons for their children that goes against their beliefs and peacefully protesting to achieve a result. Don't pretend that considering homosexuality to be abnormal or sinful is exclusively a Muslim phenomenon. In the United States religious schools are apparently allowed to terminate employment on sexual orientation.

There's been plenty of accommodations made to their religion when none should have been.

Crippled progress on issues like circumcision is another example; despite a massive majority of the public backing it being banned, politicians wont touch the issue and help the public create a country in line with their values, because the fact of the matter is their values being promoted are incompatible with Islam existing in this country.

Nice monologue, some sources please.

The presence of Muslims has also led to the propogation of animal torture in the united kingdom due to their demand for halal meat, which is exempt from animal slaughter standards as a religious accomodation. (Every animal charity has concluded that the standards are necessary to prevent the animal suffering before death.).

This is worsened by Muslims demanding main stores like Subway and McDonalds accomodate them and sell halal versions or they call them racist and islamophobic, many corporations simply adopt halal meat now.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/foo ... reggs-kfc/

So it means animal torture goes well beyond merely Muslim demand for it, and impacts on meat demands from other citizens too who may not be aware the meat they are getting does not meet basic slaughter standards.

Carotid exsanguination is torture now? It's one of the quickest ways for humans to die, and rather painless I hear.

Dhabihah

[Novus America]

And what can the UN do to stop this poor excuse of a government from carrying out this evil?

Nothing. The way the UN works Brunei has just as much a vote as other countries (besides the 5 permanent members of the UNSC).
Small dictatorships have massive power in the UN.

[Kowani]

And what can the UN do to stop this poor excuse of a government from carrying out this evil?

Perhaps their letter will contain profanity this time.

[Gormwood]

And what can the UN do to stop this poor excuse of a government from carrying out this evil?

Perhaps their letter will contain profanity this time.

The major superpowers deliberately hobble the UN to be little more than a soapbox, so it's not like thry're able to do much even if the majority of the members wanted to.

[Novus America]

Perhaps their letter will contain profanity this time.

The major superpowers deliberately hobble the UN to be little more than a soapbox, so it's not like thry're able to do much even if the majority of the members wanted to.

5 great powers you mean, great power =/= superpower.
But it is not just that, actually big powers outside the five get screwed over by the one country one vote system. Actually the UN voting system disproportionately benefits the small countries at the expense of the bigger ones.

Brunei has equal voting power with Brazil, India and Germany.

[TheBadMan]

The results of Saudi Arabian influence rears it's ugly head once more.

[Gormwood]

The results of Saudi Arabian influence rears it's ugly head once more.

But they buy our weapons systems so they apparently go in the "Allies" column.

[Zhanyadha]

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/28/world/asia/brunei-stoning-death.html

So recently Brunei has in a statement by the nations attorney general that they will begin to punish homosexuality and adultery with public stoning. Brunei had announced this years earlier but this law was delayed due to international criticism. But in a statement it has been announced this law will go into effect on April 3rd. It is part of their new Sharia penal code but will apply to Muslims and Non Muslims.

I am personally disgusted by this. Stoning is bad enough and homosexuality should not be punished like this and I honestly do hope the international community condemns this harshly. But those are my thoughts so NSG what do you all think about this?

Edit: Also quick note Brunei made this statement that they were going through with this 4 months ago. They were just so low key about it we did not pick up on it until now.

Simple solution:
Stone the sultan!
Then, execute ALL of his ministers.
Problem solved; Next?

[TheBadMan]

The results of Saudi Arabian influence rears it's ugly head once more.

But they buy our weapons systems so they apparently go in the "Allies" column.

Right, to me, it's such a mystery as to why we, as the US, are still allies with them. The "war on terror" apparently doesn't apply to these people. They are the most two faced liars the world has ever seen. On one hand, they claim to be against extremism and for reform, but that is CLEARLY not reflected through their policies and actions.

They're causing a humanitarian crisis in Yemen, gave the 9/11 terrorists passports, have almost single handedly used their oil wealth to finance the rise of extremism throughout the Middle East, and we can plainly see the results of that, when idiot laws such as this get passed. But apparently, since MBS allows women to drive, he's some sort of reformer. What the fuck?

MBS came to power illegitimately, kills our journalists, finances the rise of extremist policies throughout the world, then lies to our faces about "reform" and "change," and we're still allies with them? There may be legitimate reformers within the Muslim community, but Saudi Arabia is clearly not among them, and are the biggest reason the reform in the Islamic World is being held back. If we want to stop laws like this from getting passed, we need to actually show them that this shit is intolerable, and limit the global influence they currently have.

[Novus America]

But they buy our weapons systems so they apparently go in the "Allies" column.

Right, to me, it's such a mystery as to why we, as the US, are still allies with them. The "war on terror" apparently doesn't apply to these people. They are the most two faced liars the world has ever seen. On one hand, they claim to be against extremism and for reform, but that is CLEARLY not reflected through their policies and actions.

They're causing a humanitarian crisis in Yemen, gave the 9/11 terrorists passports, have almost single handedly used their oil wealth to finance the rise of extremism throughout the Middle East, and we can plainly see the results of that, when idiot laws such as this get passed. But apparently, since MBS allows women to drive, he's some sort of reformer. What the fuck?

MBS came to power illegitimately, kills our journalists, finances the rise of extremist policies throughout the world, then lies to our faces about "reform" and "change," and we're still allies with them? There may be legitimate reformers within the Muslim community, but Saudi Arabia is clearly not among them, and are the biggest reason the reform in the Islamic World is being held back. If we want to stop laws like this from getting passed, we need to actually show them that this shit is intolerable, and limit the global influence they currently have.

Eh, pretty much everyone realizes they are backstabbing unreliable scum of a government at best. The real reason we back them is lack of a credible alternative.

Pretty much nobody in the west would cry if the Saudi regime was replaced by a less vile one.
The problem is the Saudi regime is not spreading radicalism from personal preference (the royal family are notorious for their libertine lifestyles) but as a way to appease the populace.

Radical Islam in Saudi Arabia comes from the bottom up just as much as it is enforced from the top down. Of course enforcing Radical Islamit to appease a radically Islamist populace just creates a self perpetuating cycle of horror.

Still knocking out the government that uses it to survive does not fix it.

It could easily result in something even worse.

[Gormwood]

But they buy our weapons systems so they apparently go in the "Allies" column.

Right, to me, it's such a mystery as to why we, as the US, are still allies with them. The "war on terror" apparently doesn't apply to these people. They are the most two faced liars the world has ever seen. On one hand, they claim to be against extremism and for reform, but that is CLEARLY not reflected through their policies and actions.

They're causing a humanitarian crisis in Yemen, gave the 9/11 terrorists passports, have almost single handedly used their oil wealth to finance the rise of extremism throughout the Middle East, and we can plainly see the results of that, when idiot laws such as this get passed. But apparently, since MBS allows women to drive, he's some sort of reformer. What the fuck?

MBS came to power illegitimately, kills our journalists, finances the rise of extremist policies throughout the world, then lies to our faces about "reform" and "change," and we're still allies with them? There may be legitimate reformers within the Muslim community, but Saudi Arabia is clearly not among them, and are the biggest reason the reform in the Islamic World is being held back. If we want to stop laws like this from getting passed, we need to actually show them that this shit is intolerable, and limit the global influence they currently have.

Saudi Arabia's Wahhabism is what most people point to for their "proof" that all of Islam is barbaric and evil while conflating all other Muslims including the ones assimilated in the West with them. But as long as the U.S. gives a special pass to the House of Saud the way Ostroeuropa likes to complain the West gives the average Muslims, true Islamic reform on a national, much less global scale isn't happening.

And on a side note, it turns out the Saudis hacked into Jeff Bezos's personal information and passed it on to try and shame him out of public life.

Bezos Investigation Finds the Saudis Obtained His Private Data

[Zhanyadha]

The results of Saudi Arabian influence rears it's ugly head once more.

But they buy our weapons systems so they apparently go in the "Allies" column.

1. Who said that a customer is an ally?-Going by business logic that's a totally unlogic assumption and wrong conclusion. If anything, the customer is the prey.
2. Even if they would be an ally, WHO cares?-All that there is is business, and that's it. Just dissolve those semites, yet antisemitics, into their very molecules.

[Gormwood]

Radical Islam in Saudi Arabia comes from the bottom up just as much as it is enforced from the top down. Of course enforcing Radical Islamit to appease a radically Islamist populace just creates a self perpetuating cycle of horror.

So to paraphrase George W. Bush, the Saudi populace hates freedom? So why did the women even bother to struggle for the right to drive cars in the first place?