Malaysian jailed for 10 years for "insulting Islam"

[Samudera Darussalam]

Filipino liberal democrat and (probably the only) ASEAN booster here.

Anyway, the key to understanding Malaysian society is the intense ethnic feeling among members of the Malay majority, and corresponding, if at present low-key, hostility to its minorities, most prominently the Chinese. Put in Western terms, the Malays, like Tarrant and his ilk, fear a great replacement, but with Malays the ones getting the boot and the Chinese getting to call the shots, instead of Christian white males and everyone else respectively.

In other words, the blasphemy laws are there not so much to protect Islam from the slings of the kuffar, as they are there to protect what is viewed among themselves as an integral part of the Malay identity from the reproaches of the not-Malay.

If this feels weird to Westerners reading this, trust me, this feels weird to me too; simply put, tribalism is almost a nonexistent current in my part of the world.

Finally somebody said this.
To be frank I have already pointed something in the first page about this "Ketuanan Melayu", but well it seems everybody focusing on Islam there and that.

[Diarcesia]

Filipino liberal democrat and (probably the only) ASEAN booster here.

Anyway, the key to understanding Malaysian society is the intense ethnic feeling among members of the Malay majority, and corresponding, if at present low-key, hostility to its minorities, most prominently the Chinese. Put in Western terms, the Malays, like Tarrant and his ilk, fear a great replacement, but with Malays the ones getting the boot and the Chinese getting to call the shots, instead of Christian white males and everyone else respectively.

In other words, the blasphemy laws are there not so much to protect Islam from the slings of the kuffar, as they are there to protect what is viewed among themselves as an integral part of the Malay identity from the reproaches of the not-Malay.

If this feels weird to Westerners reading this, trust me, this feels weird to me too; simply put, tribalism is almost a nonexistent current in my part of the world.

Finally somebody said this.
To be frank I have already pointed something in the first page about this "Ketuanan Melayu", but well it seems everybody focusing on Islam there and that.

This is connected to the "Malaysia Boleh" memes out there, right?

[Samudera Darussalam]

Finally somebody said this.
To be frank I have already pointed something in the first page about this "Ketuanan Melayu", but well it seems everybody focusing on Islam there and that.

This is connected to the "Malaysia Boleh" memes out there, right?

Uh, "Malaysia Boleh" simply means "Malaysia can" or "Malaysia is able to do something". I think they only showed some pride about their nation or their nation's achievement actually.

[Darussalam]

Filipino liberal democrat and (probably the only) ASEAN booster here.

Anyway, the key to understanding Malaysian society is the intense ethnic feeling among members of the Malay majority, and corresponding, if at present low-key, hostility to its minorities, most prominently the Chinese. Put in Western terms, the Malays, like Tarrant and his ilk, fear a great replacement, but with Malays the ones getting the boot and the Chinese getting to call the shots, instead of Christian white males and everyone else respectively.

Ironic since Malays are the ethnic group with higher fertility rate compared to the Indians and the Chinese, who if anything saw their relative size declining in Malaysia, as opposed to rising Muslim population in Western countries.

Just as in the West, this isn't sustainable either as the non-native population account for a large percentage (some estimates say ~90% relative to their population of less than 40%) of national revenue and private sector growth, while many Malays occupy iron-bowl jobs and affirmative action programs instead. But at least it'll be the apocalypse they brought themselves, and with little to no harm for the non-natives.

[Duhon]

Filipino liberal democrat and (probably the only) ASEAN booster here.

Anyway, the key to understanding Malaysian society is the intense ethnic feeling among members of the Malay majority, and corresponding, if at present low-key, hostility to its minorities, most prominently the Chinese. Put in Western terms, the Malays, like Tarrant and his ilk, fear a great replacement, but with Malays the ones getting the boot and the Chinese getting to call the shots, instead of Christian white males and everyone else respectively.

Ironic since Malays are the ethnic group with higher fertility rate compared to the Indians and the Chinese, who if anything saw their relative size declining in Malaysia, as opposed to rising Muslim population in Western countries.

Just as in the West, this isn't sustainable either as the non-native population account for a large percentage (some estimates say ~90% relative to their population of less than 40%) of national revenue and private sector growth, while many Malays occupy iron-bowl jobs and affirmative action programs instead. But at least it'll be the apocalypse they brought themselves, and with little to no harm for the non-natives.

In other words, they could and should extend their particularistic definition of Malayhood in fact as well as in law, yeah? It's a ridiculous setup as it is, this systematic ethnic tiering -- to be successful and yet be treated as a pariah on the land of your birth through no fault of your own.

[United Muscovite Nations]

No fruitful discussion has ever come about from someone insulting the other.

Ok so someone says an insult right? Most people would either ignore him or insult back. What if you ask him why he thinks that? Learn his perspective and reasonings? Attempt to persuade him your side, allowing him to come away from potentially extremist views. Congrats, you just solved the problem, gained an ally and probably a friend.

Or we could go your way, beat the shit out of him, allowing the other party to then have the right to hit back and lead to escalation. Or just straight up imprison him. Yeah, such fruitful discussion and problem solving. Not hiding or oppressing an issue at all.

Insults are meant to not produce that kind of reaction, and people who start a political discussion by insulting things you hold dear aren't interested in constructive dialogue.

[United Muscovite Nations]

If a totalitarian regime has already taken power, then speech won't bring them out of power.

The idea is that controlling freedom of speech allows a government to reach this point, then what happens when you make a criticism of the government, like "why are you so mean to the Jews" and they imprison you for going against the people's view, they label the other parties as wrong or radical, and any that vote for them are exactly that, and are dangerous to the state.

Totalitarian governments don't happen when the society is intelligent enough to notice it, allow a group to hide it and it'll slowly grow. Let them speak out and you can use evidence and reason to shut them down

Counterpoint: The Nazis took power largely by being extremely open about their views and holding large rallies where they proclaimed exactly what their plans were.

[Yusseria]

Ok so someone says an insult right? Most people would either ignore him or insult back. What if you ask him why he thinks that? Learn his perspective and reasonings? Attempt to persuade him your side, allowing him to come away from potentially extremist views. Congrats, you just solved the problem, gained an ally and probably a friend.

Or we could go your way, beat the shit out of him, allowing the other party to then have the right to hit back and lead to escalation. Or just straight up imprison him. Yeah, such fruitful discussion and problem solving. Not hiding or oppressing an issue at all.

Insults are meant to not produce that kind of reaction, and people who start a political discussion by insulting things you hold dear aren't interested in constructive dialogue.

Why does it matter?

[The South Falls]

The idea is that controlling freedom of speech allows a government to reach this point, then what happens when you make a criticism of the government, like "why are you so mean to the Jews" and they imprison you for going against the people's view, they label the other parties as wrong or radical, and any that vote for them are exactly that, and are dangerous to the state.

Totalitarian governments don't happen when the society is intelligent enough to notice it, allow a group to hide it and it'll slowly grow. Let them speak out and you can use evidence and reason to shut them down

Counterpoint: The Nazis took power largely by being extremely open about their views and holding large rallies where they proclaimed exactly what their plans were.

Underground movement succeeds as well.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Insults are meant to not produce that kind of reaction, and people who start a political discussion by insulting things you hold dear aren't interested in constructive dialogue.

Why does it matter?

If your goal is to incite your opponent to react angrily, you're not contributing anything to discussion.

[Yusseria]

Why does it matter?

If your goal is to incite your opponent to react angrily, you're not contributing anything to discussion.

And?

None of this is at all justification for jailing someone for a decade.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Insults are meant to not produce that kind of reaction, and people who start a political discussion by insulting things you hold dear aren't interested in constructive dialogue.

Why does it matter?

If your goal is to make other people upset in the discussion, you're not contributing anything to the discussion, but are rather contributing to its collapse.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Somehow my posts are getting deleted.

[United Muscovite Nations]

If your goal is to incite your opponent to react angrily, you're not contributing anything to discussion.

And?

None of this is at all justification for jailing someone for a decade.

If you're contributing to the collapse of discussion, you're contributing to the collapse of social order.

[Yusseria]

Somehow my posts are getting deleted.

My reply was also deleted.

[Yusseria]

And?

None of this is at all justification for jailing someone for a decade.

If you're contributing to the collapse of discussion, you're contributing to the collapse of social order.

You're essentially saying that putting people in jail for insults is okay.

[United Muscovite Nations]

If you're contributing to the collapse of discussion, you're contributing to the collapse of social order.

You're essentially saying that putting people in jail for insults is okay.

If your insult harms fruitful discussion, you should at least be fined.

[Yusseria]

You're essentially saying that putting people in jail for insults is okay.

If your insult harms fruitful discussion, you should at least be fined.

There is no "fruitful" discussion going on in Malaysia. There is only theocratic authoritarianism.

[G R U N T]

I think *grunt* mas magaling *grunt* ako sa inyong lahat *grunt* HEHEHE

[Diarcesia]

If your insult harms fruitful discussion, you should at least be fined.

There is no "fruitful" discussion going on in Malaysia. There is only theocratic authoritarianism.

Insulting them won't get them Westernized.

[Darussalam]

There is no "fruitful" discussion going on in Malaysia. There is only theocratic authoritarianism.

Insulting them won't get them Westernized.

No, but it's disingenuous indeed to think the law's there because Malaysians are otherwise okay with religious discussion, and not because it's a tacit acknowledgement to theocratic authoritarianism enforced to ensure Malays don't get mad and social cohesion maintained.

[Deutschess Kaiserreich]

Thank god I don't live there anymore.

[Diarcesia]

Insulting them won't get them Westernized.

No, but it's disingenuous indeed to think the law's there because Malaysians are otherwise okay with religious discussion, and not because it's a tacit acknowledgement to theocratic authoritarianism enforced to ensure Malays don't get mad and social cohesion maintained.

Yes. I'm torn between one society being thin-skinned on the slightest criticism to feel better about themselves and another throwing verbal insults at 'lesser' others to feel better about themselves.

[Duhon]

If your insult harms fruitful discussion, you should at least be fined.

There is no "fruitful" discussion going on in Malaysia. There is only theocratic authoritarianism.

Tribalistic authoritarianism.

[Khataiy]

The Malaysian government did nothing wrong