Malaysian jailed for 10 years for "insulting Islam"

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

Each country is a banner of its own culture.

Just like Americans, despite liking free speech, would find it highly unacceptable as a group to denigrate veterans/armed forces/the flag/the pledge/jesus and whatever else americans orgasm over.

"To each their own, no debate allowed, everything is the same if you look at it the right way".

This way of thinking is bad. Democracy and Free Speech have no equals, so comparing them to authoritarian regimes and blasphemy laws because of "culture" is bad.

The ROC and the PRC have the same exact culture. One is the beacon of democracy/women rights, the other is a totalitarian dictatorship that uses its citizens as slaves.

Less than half of Taiwanese women over the age of 40 are in employment. But ok.

No point talking to anyone who thinks ROC and PRC have the same culture, though. I suppose you think the same of the Koreas. Heck, probably even the same of East and West Germany.

[Astoriya]

Anyway, personally, I think this is sad and wrong, but as with all moral issues nowadays, that's neither here nor there. If Malaysia really does want to achieve a state where Islam is revered with little dissent, however, there are probably better and cheaper ways to do it than this. If Malaysia just wants to achieve a state where religious dissent is minimal, they could take a page out of Singapore's book, but I'm pretty sure the Malaysian agenda has the primacy of Islam somewhere in it.

Yes, and become an authoritarian police state - not sure if that'd fly

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Yes, human rights organizations should condemn cases like this.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

Each country is a banner of its own culture.

Just like Americans, despite liking free speech, would find it highly unacceptable as a group to denigrate veterans/armed forces/the flag/the pledge/jesus and whatever else americans orgasm over.

None of those would get you imprisoned however. Americans protect free speech, even that which we disagree with.

America isn't bound by a history of ethnic strife and 62% of its population doesn't belong to the most conservative mainstream religion on the planet.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Post Deleted.

[Astoriya]

None of those would get you imprisoned however. Americans protect free speech, even that which we disagree with.

America isn't bound by a history of ethnic strife and 62% of its population doesn't belong to the most conservative mainstream religion on the planet.

Hmm, is that heavy exaggeration I smell...?

[Arcturus Novus]

Well this fucking sucks. There's no reason this guy should be in jail right now.

[Aclion]

None of those would get you imprisoned however. Americans protect free speech, even that which we disagree with.

America isn't bound by a history of ethnic strife and 62% of its population doesn't belong to the most conservative mainstream religion on the planet.

Have you considered that our institutions like free speech might be a reason for that?

[Iciaros]

Yes, and become an authoritarian police state - not sure if that'd fly

I'm not saying I agree with the way Singapore does everything, because I definitely don't, but I'm just pointing out that Malaysia's priorities are clearly distinct from Singapore's (which, for anyone who knows anything about this region, should be blatantly obvious). This is perhaps only naturally the case, since Singapore has much more significant religious minorities than Malaysia does, and not only has some history with racial/religious violence but was also explicitly founded on the idea of multi-religionism (pretty sure that's not a word, but, ehh...) whereas Malaysia already had a clear religious majority from the get-go.

The effect of the difference is pretty stark. Singapore has a council for minority rights, which can kind of semi-veto Parliament, among other protections for religious and racial minorities. Racial and religious harmony is basically built into the national ethos, and drilled into people in school. Schools have a sort-of holiday for it. Public housing has racial quotas to it. (I tend to put race and religion close together, since on the whole most Malays in Singapore and Malaysia are Muslims.) Authoritarian? Sure. But given the laws we've seen here, I'm not sure how much Malaysia cares about not being authoritarian itself. Yet it doesn't really have any of these things, last I checked (I could be wrong), which have, well, proven to be pretty effective. And not all the things I listed are necessarily authoritarian. There are other things Malaysia could do that isn't, well, this, if they want to maintain religious harmony. But, like I said, their priorities seem to be somewhat different.

[North German Realm]

Hmm, is that heavy exaggeration I smell...?

Not really. Mainstream Islam (i.e. the shit you see in Middle East) is the most conservative religion in the current world order.

[New Sukberia]

"To each their own, no debate allowed, everything is the same if you look at it the right way".

This way of thinking is bad. Democracy and Free Speech have no equals, so comparing them to authoritarian regimes and blasphemy laws because of "culture" is bad.

The ROC and the PRC have the same exact culture. One is the beacon of democracy/women rights, the other is a totalitarian dictatorship that uses its citizens as slaves.

Less than half of Taiwanese women over the age of 40 are in employment. But ok.

No point talking to anyone who thinks ROC and PRC have the same culture, though. I suppose you think the same of the Koreas. Heck, probably even the same of East and West Germany.

Same. Debating with the next Neville Chamberlain isn't my thing anyway. Bye

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Hmm, is that heavy exaggeration I smell...?

Not really. Mainstream Islam (i.e. the shit you see in Middle East) is the most conservative religion in the current world order.

This ^^ They execute lots of people for the most trivial of reasons.

[Ifreann]

Antifa (not NS Antifa) has chapters all across the Western world, but if such a chapter exists in Malaysia, I haven’t heard of it. I have yet to encounter Malaysian members of Antifa physically confronting the far-right Malay and Muslim fascists in the streets of Kuala Lumpur. Antifa only goes after white supremacists it seems, and many of their targets e.g. Tucker Carlson aren't even that.

Antifa isn't an organisation that has chapters anywhere. Anti-fascists organise locally in response to local issues, there is no hierarchy or central command or anything like that. If you aren't seeing anti-fascist action in your locality then that isn't because Western liberals have failed to deploy a unit of Antifa super-soldiers to Malaysia. It's because your local leftists haven't organised to do anti-fascist things. Or maybe they have but they're keeping it quiet for fear of going to jail. Or maybe they are organised but aren't doing anti-fascism, specifically. Your government being bad isn't necessarily fascism, and antifa is just opposing fascism by any means necessary.

Responding to your post more generally, Western liberals and leftists(and those are separate groups) aren't going to get shouty about every bad thing your government does for several reasons, foremost of which is that people here just aren't going to know what's going on in your country the vast majority of the time. And even if people do hear about someone getting locked up for ten years in Malaysia, that's not exactly shocking. It's not that people don't care about free speech, it's that "Country you would have assumed isn't very free turns out to not be very free" isn't the kind of thing that spurs people to action.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

America isn't bound by a history of ethnic strife and 62% of its population doesn't belong to the most conservative mainstream religion on the planet.

Hmm, is that heavy exaggeration I smell...?

You are welcome to try and convince me that Judaism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Hinduism or Christianity (any major denom.) is more conservative by its adherents' adherence.

Good luck.

America isn't bound by a history of ethnic strife and 62% of its population doesn't belong to the most conservative mainstream religion on the planet.

Have you considered that our institutions like free speech might be a reason for that?

Free speech is the reason why America isn't majority Muslim?

[The New California Republic]

Yeah they need to get to fuck with that imprisoning people for insulting religion shite. One's faith must be tentative if imprisoning people for dissent is the go-to response.

[Zapato]

Should Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Avaaz and other NGOs be called out for not doing enough to uphold free speech both online and offline, in the West and in the developing world, or even allegedly undermining their very own stated cause?

Since when did it become their job to uphold free speech? Since when did these volunteer organizations get the power and/or resources to uphold free speech anywhere?

[Astoriya]

Hmm, is that heavy exaggeration I smell...?

Not really. Mainstream Islam (i.e. the shit you see in Middle East) is the most conservative religion in the current world order.

I expected that question - that is not mainstream Islam, it is actually extreme Islam, so, with all due respect, please get your facts straight.

EDIT: inb4 someone says "OK, so show me a nation that's primarily Islamic, and isn't some Xth century hellhole"
cf. Oman, Kuwait, the UAE, Qatar, the Maldives, Brunei, Malaysia in general, etck, etck

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Not really. Mainstream Islam (i.e. the shit you see in Middle East) is the most conservative religion in the current world order.

I expected that question - that is not mainstream Islam, it is actually extreme Islam, so, with all due respect, please get your facts straight.

In the middle east, radical Islam is mainstream. While not all Muslims are extremists, they are far from a fringe group over there.

[Ifreann]

Should Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Avaaz and other NGOs be called out for not doing enough to uphold free speech both online and offline, in the West and in the developing world, or even allegedly undermining their very own stated cause?

Since when did it become their job to uphold free speech? Since when did these volunteer organizations get the power and/or resources to uphold free speech anywhere?

Amnesty International Malaysia seemed to be more focussed on abolishing the death penalty, though this computer is garbage so I didn't have much of a look at their website.

[Astoriya]

Should Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Avaaz and other NGOs be called out for not doing enough to uphold free speech both online and offline, in the West and in the developing world, or even allegedly undermining their very own stated cause?

Since when did it become their job to uphold free speech? Since when did these volunteer organizations get the power and/or resources to uphold free speech anywhere?

Amnesty International Malaysia seemed to be more focussed on abolishing the death penalty, though this computer is garbage so I didn't have much of a look at their website.

...currently in hearing sessions at the parliament - though apparently they've backtracked from doing so

[New Sukberia]

Not really. Mainstream Islam (i.e. the shit you see in Middle East) is the most conservative religion in the current world order.

I expected that question - that is not mainstream Islam, it is actually extreme Islam, so, with all due respect, please get your facts straight.

EDIT: inb4 someone says "OK, so show me a nation that's primarily Islamic, and isn't some Xth century hellhole"
cf. Oman, Kuwait, the UAE, Qatar, the Maldives, Brunei, Malaysia in general, etck, etck

7. Out of... How many now?

Besiees your list is incomplète. Add Turkey ( even Tho it's changing), Jordan and maybe Tunisia?

Remove qatar since they support terroriste and the Maldives are going on a dangerous path.

[Crockerland]

Not really. Mainstream Islam (i.e. the shit you see in Middle East) is the most conservative religion in the current world order.

I expected that question - that is not mainstream Islam, it is actually extreme Islam, so, with all due respect, please get your facts straight.

EDIT: inb4 someone says "OK, so show me a nation that's primarily Islamic, and isn't some Xth century hellhole"
cf. Oman, Kuwait, the UAE, Qatar, the Maldives, Brunei, Malaysia in general, etck, etck

The government of the UAE murders gay people in cold blood, puts rape victims in prison, and used to openly deny the Holocaust. If you don't think that qualifies as a hellhole then it makes sense why you'd defend Islam.

[Dushan]

Would I be labeled as “mentally ill”, like Alister Cogia has been, by a large percentage of my countrymen simply for being extremely Westernized and holding certain views not common among most Malaysians? Some of my peers IRL have already privately labeled me as such. Would I be sentenced to ten years in prison and ordered to see a so-called shrink for “counseling”? And if that happens, will Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, Avaaz and the Western Left have my back? Would Antifa have my back?

Stay safe OP.

The formerly liberal Left, in collusion with far-right stealth Islamists, has betrayed certain types of Third Worlders like myself for daring to go against the (religious, predominantly Islamic) grain in our own, backward societies. This sense of betrayal is not something I feel coming from rightwing conservatives, because the Western Right has never even pretended to care, and I have always disagreed with them, sometimes strongly, on many issues. The Left has also turned its back on fiercely antireligious New Atheists like myself who are critical of Islam for the exact same reasons. Ex-Muslim atheists have it even worse, and they are either ignored or vilified by the Left and a number of far-right stealth Islamist allies for peddling “Islamophobia”.

Perhaps it might be time to reelavuate those whom you thought to be your... associates for they might be not what they appeared it to be. It sucks but the feeling will pass through. I've been there a few times myself.

Is the Left only interested in scoring political points against Western, rightwing conservatives at the expense of all else?

It does indeed appear so.

[Handecanistan]

Not really. Mainstream Islam (i.e. the shit you see in Middle East) is the most conservative religion in the current world order.

I expected that question - that is not mainstream Islam, it is actually extreme Islam, so, with all due respect, please get your facts straight.

EDIT: inb4 someone says "OK, so show me a nation that's primarily Islamic, and isn't some Xth century hellhole"
cf. Oman, Kuwait, the UAE, Qatar, the Maldives, Brunei, Malaysia in general, etck, etck

I think you're confusing mainstream with moderate? If the majority of people in a religion believe in the extreme version, that makes the extreme version mainstream. No one is stating that moderate Islam doesn't exist, and certainly in Western society and likely places where Islam in more of a minority the mainstream Islam of those places are moderate Islam. Except we're looking at the overall population of Islam on the planet, so the mainstream would likely be Extreme/radical/ultra conservative Islam at this moment in time.

If the mainstream Islam around the world and the extremists were as few as the extreme Christians you see in this day and age (not that they don't exist), maybe less people would have such a negative view on the religion, and see it in the same light as most of the other main religions.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

"To each their own, no debate allowed, everything is the same if you look at it the right way".

This way of thinking is bad. Democracy and Free Speech have no equals, so comparing them to authoritarian regimes and blasphemy laws because of "culture" is bad.

The ROC and the PRC have the same exact culture. One is the beacon of democracy/women rights, the other is a totalitarian dictatorship that uses its citizens as slaves.

Less than half of Taiwanese women over the age of 40 are in employment. But ok.

No point talking to anyone who thinks ROC and PRC have the same culture, though. I suppose you think the same of the Koreas. Heck, probably even the same of East and West Germany.

The fact that you apparently think East and West Germany are still different countries explains a lot.