Malaysian jailed for 10 years for "insulting Islam"

[Handecanistan]

It's a well known fact that religions target and spread their beliefs onto children in as that is the state that is easiest to manipulate, as they have learnt that "adults know best" and don't have enough experience to question things or think critically. If a religion didn't bolster their numbers by reproducing more then they'd end up shrinking.

It's a sad fact that even religions have recognised that it is extremely difficult to convert an adult to their religion and started targeting kids instead (especially Catholics lol). Not that it isn't impossible to convert an adult, even atheist sometimes convert to other religions. Though I don't see why they'd convert to a religion that would imprison them for asking questions or making a criticism.

If children could remain indoctrinated like Reaper bait there wouldn't really be any defection now would there?

Well, imagine you grow up being told certain "truths" your whole life, and that sticks with you and is constantly reminded atleast once a week, or you have to prayer every day or you go to hell. Now there is no distinct proof that this being that may be imaginary or may not, is in fact imaginary. At this point you realise it's a simple matter of "am I willing to take the risk". Now imagine all of your family and friends believe in the same thing, and that leaving said belief would result in your ex-communication, or your imprisonment/death. As you stated, this act is seen as "defection".

It's no small wonder why people would follow such a belief, and why people would choose not to convert to said belief when all of this is taken into account.

[New Bremerton]

The fact that I live in a country which actually respects freedom of speech instead of enforcing thought crime like a bunch of insecure children.
That's what gives me the right.

Go to Malaysia and ask Malaysians what they want instead of being an arm chair war monger.

As a Malaysian, I would love to see Islam totally wiped from the face of my country and all Malaysian Muslims renounce Islam overnight. That's what I want. A Malaysia free from the shackles of all religions. I would like to see my country adopt something akin to the United States' First Amendment guaranteeing near-absolute freedom of speech. And I would LOVE to see a world where Islam and religion don't exist and atheists and freethinkers rule the roost. I believe Western, liberal values are vastly superior to those of the Muslim world where I live and my wet dream would be to see Malaysia invaded and liberated by a coalition of Western nations and its inhabitants forcibly civilized and de-Islamized, similar to how Nazi Germany was liberated and de-Nazified in 1945. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Malaysians don't feel that way because they are intolerant, narrow-minded religious bigots who are OK with their human rights being infringed in the name of "racial and religious harmony".

[Aureumterra]

Islam and religion don't exist and atheists and freethinkers rule the roost.

What’s wrong with religion? Isn’t that a part of freedom of speech? If atheists enforce atheism on religious people, that ruins the point doesn’t it?

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Islam and religion don't exist and atheists and freethinkers rule the roost.

What’s wrong with religion? Isn’t that a part of freedom of speech? If atheists enforce atheism on religious people, that ruins the point doesn’t it?

It's a little ironic considering he clearly has strong feelings about religious bigotry.

[Handecanistan]

Islam and religion don't exist and atheists and freethinkers rule the roost.

What’s wrong with religion? Isn’t that a part of freedom of speech? If atheists enforce atheism on religious people, that ruins the point doesn’t it?

Yeah, forcing someone to not believe in a religion defeats the purpose, if you hate it when a group forces you to think the same way they do, you wouldn't want to think their way and would resist instead. It is impossible to suddenly remove religion without definitive proof of the true origin of everything, and by this I don't mean disproving god (which is impossible), but by proving another theory like the big bang. The problem is, the more we learn, the more questions we have. It's pretty easy to just dismiss things that we don't know as "God did it". Sir Isaac Newton did exactly this and put his pen down, only for another great mind, Henry Cavendish (I believe) to pick up Newton's unfinished work and finish it off.

Religion on it's own isn't inherently bad, it's just a theory and philosophy on life that we've inherited from our primitive ancestors. In a way it's pretty much tradition, I'll never dispute the importance of religion on humanity, and I think atheism in Nazi Germany and the USSR proves that wars etc would not really have been prevented if we didn't have religion. I just feel like we don't really need it anymore, if they were scientific theories presented for the first time in the 20th century they probably would have been dismissed, though their philosophy may still have a place.

[Aureumterra]

What’s wrong with religion? Isn’t that a part of freedom of speech? If atheists enforce atheism on religious people, that ruins the point doesn’t it?

Yeah, forcing someone to not believe in a religion defeats the purpose, if you hate it when a group forces you to think the same way they do, you wouldn't want to think their way and would resist instead. It is impossible to suddenly remove religion without definitive proof of the true origin of everything, and by this I don't mean disproving god (which is impossible), but by proving another theory like the big bang. The problem is, the more we learn, the more questions we have. It's pretty easy to just dismiss things that we don't know as "God did it". Sir Isaac Newton did exactly this and put his pen down, only for another great mind, Henry Cavendish (I believe) to pick up Newton's unfinished work and finish it off.

Religion on it's own isn't inherently bad, it's just a theory and philosophy on life that we've inherited from our primitive ancestors. In a way it's pretty much tradition, I'll never dispute the importance of religion on humanity, and I think atheism in Nazi Germany and the USSR proves that wars etc would not really have been prevented if we didn't have religion. I just feel like we don't really need it anymore, if they were scientific theories presented for the first time in the 20th century they probably would have been dismissed, though their philosophy may still have a place.

Exactly my point, in fact, I think the institution of religion is changing itself, but that’s more threadjacking. As for the OP, no, if you feel so strongly against religious bigotry, your radical atheist regime idea is in itself a form of bigotry

[Handecanistan]

Yeah, forcing someone to not believe in a religion defeats the purpose, if you hate it when a group forces you to think the same way they do, you wouldn't want to think their way and would resist instead. It is impossible to suddenly remove religion without definitive proof of the true origin of everything, and by this I don't mean disproving god (which is impossible), but by proving another theory like the big bang. The problem is, the more we learn, the more questions we have. It's pretty easy to just dismiss things that we don't know as "God did it". Sir Isaac Newton did exactly this and put his pen down, only for another great mind, Henry Cavendish (I believe) to pick up Newton's unfinished work and finish it off.

Religion on it's own isn't inherently bad, it's just a theory and philosophy on life that we've inherited from our primitive ancestors. In a way it's pretty much tradition, I'll never dispute the importance of religion on humanity, and I think atheism in Nazi Germany and the USSR proves that wars etc would not really have been prevented if we didn't have religion. I just feel like we don't really need it anymore, if they were scientific theories presented for the first time in the 20th century they probably would have been dismissed, though their philosophy may still have a place.

Exactly my point, in fact, I think the institution of religion is changing itself, but that’s more threadjacking. As for the OP, no, if you feel so strongly against religious bigotry, your radical atheist regime idea is in itself a form of bigotry

It's tough though, of course feeling like you're better than someone because you don't believe in the "magic man in the sky" is bigotry, and displays a lack of understanding of the other group. Though if your experience with that group is "if you critique us we'll put you in prison" you're obviously going to have a hate of said group, as they are against your freedom of speech and rights (if you believe that freedom of speech is a human right of course).

I can easily understand the thoughts of an atheist from a country that could put him in prison for talking about why he is an atheist, or making a point about a religion. Just because it hurts their feelings, or isn't true, doesn't excuse the government throwing you in prison for 10 years, and if the reason for that is a law based on religion. You can also easily find the link between "religion" and "restriction of speech" and therefore a link between "religion" and "thought crime". Thinking that the cause of the "thought crime" law should be removed is pretty understandable

[New Bremerton]

Yeah, forcing someone to not believe in a religion defeats the purpose, if you hate it when a group forces you to think the same way they do, you wouldn't want to think their way and would resist instead. It is impossible to suddenly remove religion without definitive proof of the true origin of everything, and by this I don't mean disproving god (which is impossible), but by proving another theory like the big bang. The problem is, the more we learn, the more questions we have. It's pretty easy to just dismiss things that we don't know as "God did it". Sir Isaac Newton did exactly this and put his pen down, only for another great mind, Henry Cavendish (I believe) to pick up Newton's unfinished work and finish it off.

Religion on it's own isn't inherently bad, it's just a theory and philosophy on life that we've inherited from our primitive ancestors. In a way it's pretty much tradition, I'll never dispute the importance of religion on humanity, and I think atheism in Nazi Germany and the USSR proves that wars etc would not really have been prevented if we didn't have religion. I just feel like we don't really need it anymore, if they were scientific theories presented for the first time in the 20th century they probably would have been dismissed, though their philosophy may still have a place.

Exactly my point, in fact, I think the institution of religion is changing itself, but that’s more threadjacking. As for the OP, no, if you feel so strongly against religious bigotry, your radical atheist regime idea is in itself a form of bigotry

The bit about Westerners forcibly de-Islamizing intolerant, hate-filled Malaysian Muslims, of which there are many, is just a wet dream. IRL, I can't force people to renounce their faith. But to hell with anyone who tries to force their beliefs onto me. The desire for revenge runs deep in my veins, and I'm tempted to go down a really dark path with respect to Islam and Muslims, especially Malaysian Muslims, and I'm trying very hard to rise above that and be the better man, lest I end up like the NZ terrorist.

As for the rest of my post, I'm simply stating an ideal, namely that atheists and freethinkers dominate the nation and the world demographically. It's a hypothetical in which Malaysian Muslims voluntarily renounce Islam for nonbelief overnight. The same goes for religious believers in the rest of the world. Nothing forceful about it. I want Malaysia to be liberal and secular like the UK, not a state that enforces atheism under pain of death. I'm no communist. But I do want to see Malaysians renounce outdated beliefs such as the idea that religion should never be insulted or criticized in any way and grow a thick skin. That's what I mean by civilizing the locals. I'd like to see a national Insult a Religion Day, and just to be fair, have a National Insult Atheism Day on April 1st. As for harmless religious traditions, even I celebrate Christmas every year despite being a lifelong nonbeliever.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Sad. Really. Religious Religions shouldn’t be above criticism. You shouldn’t have to go to jail for speaking bad about a religion or a political system.

Damn my autocorrect.

[Gormwood]

Sad. Really. Religious shouldn’t be above criticism. You shouldn’t have to go to jail for speaking bad about a religion or a political system.

Consequence of autocracies using religion as a tool of control.

[Aureumterra]

National Insult Atheism Day on April 1st.

Nice subtle way to discredit my argument

atheists and freethinkers dominate the nation and the world

84% of the world is still religiously affiliated, although varying by exactly how religious they are. Also, Gen Z in the west is supposed to be far more spiritual than their parents

[Handecanistan]

National Insult Atheism Day on April 1st.

Nice subtle way to discredit my argument

atheists and freethinkers dominate the nation and the world

84% of the world is still religiously affiliated, although varying by exactly how religious they are. Also, Gen Z in the west is supposed to be far more spiritual than their parents

Spiritual, not religious. In fact, the reason they've turned to spiritualism tends to be because they feel like religion isn't right for them and they prefer their own thing, like spiritualism. It's also mainly women, so it's like a "sisterhood" kind of thing where they can do it as a social thing with friends.

[Andsed]

Sad. Really. Religious Religions shouldn’t be above criticism. You shouldn’t have to go to jail for speaking bad about a religion or a political system.

Damn my autocorrect.

Agreed. Sending someone to jail for insulting your religion is very oppressive. If someone can't handle their god or religion be insulted then they should get thicker skin.

[Astoriya]

By this I mean the new wave of attacks - before, they were few and not commonplace (11/9, 7/7, Bali & Madrid bombings, etc)

How about Paris 2015? Or Nice? Or Charlie Hebdo?

I remeber the Paris one, that's where my nephew and i got shards. Me on m'y shoulder, my nephew on his forehead.

Note how I said before 2015/6

[United Muscovite Nations]

Tbh I don't have much sympathy for people who break these kinds of laws because they know the laws exist and often go out of their way to violate them. It's one thing if they're being punished for their beliefs, which I'm against, but it's another to publicly insult the country's religion, it's intentionally inflammatory and there's no reason to do so except to start arguments about it. It's like that Saudi refugee who everyone said was just being persecuted when she went out of her way to insult powerful sheikhs publicly.

[Yusseria]

Religious laws are fucking trash.

[Estanglia]

Tbh I don't have much sympathy for people who break these kinds of laws because they know the laws exist and often go out of their way to violate them. It's one thing if they're being punished for their beliefs, which I'm against, but it's another to publicly insult the country's religion, it's intentionally inflammatory and there's no reason to do so except to start arguments about it. It's like that Saudi refugee who everyone said was just being persecuted when she went out of her way to insult powerful sheikhs publicly.

People should still be able to speak. If you're so weak you require laws to protect you/your religion from insults, it's you who is the problem, not the person doing the insulting.

If I said a bunch of inflammatory shit about you and your religion, I'm the bad guy. As soon as you throw me in jail for a decade for that, it is you who is doing wrong.

[Handecanistan]

Tbh I don't have much sympathy for people who break these kinds of laws because they know the laws exist and often go out of their way to violate them. It's one thing if they're being punished for their beliefs, which I'm against, but it's another to publicly insult the country's religion, it's intentionally inflammatory and there's no reason to do so except to start arguments about it. It's like that Saudi refugee who everyone said was just being persecuted when she went out of her way to insult powerful sheikhs publicly.

You have a point, but should blasphemy really be punishable at the same level as other real crimes. I could probably commit burglary and really hurt someone and get a lighter sentence than that (in the UK atleast). I get that sometimes you have to swallow your pride and principles and put your head down in order to get by in life, but should it really be that way because some religion you don't believe in says so?

[Conserative Morality]

Tbh I don't have much sympathy for people who break these kinds of laws because they know the laws exist and often go out of their way to violate them. It's one thing if they're being punished for their beliefs, which I'm against, but it's another to publicly insult the country's religion, it's intentionally inflammatory and there's no reason to do so except to start arguments about it. It's like that Saudi refugee who everyone said was just being persecuted when she went out of her way to insult powerful sheikhs publicly.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Tbh I don't have much sympathy for people who break these kinds of laws because they know the laws exist and often go out of their way to violate them. It's one thing if they're being punished for their beliefs, which I'm against, but it's another to publicly insult the country's religion, it's intentionally inflammatory and there's no reason to do so except to start arguments about it. It's like that Saudi refugee who everyone said was just being persecuted when she went out of her way to insult powerful sheikhs publicly.

People should still be able to speak. If you're so weak you require laws to protect you/your religion from insults, it's you who is the problem, not the person doing the insulting.

If I said a bunch of inflammatory shit about you and your religion, I'm the bad guy. As soon as you throw me in jail for a decade for that, it is you who is doing wrong.

I'm not even Muslim, and many of my co-religionists live in Muslim countries where they have to abide by such laws, the laws make sense because they allow different religions to live in peace without compromising what each believes. Absolute free speech is dumb.

[Inkopolitia]

Whoever thinks it's fine to jail individuals for having an opinion which harms no one is an absolute lunatic.

[Free Arabian Nation]

There are 3 types of people in this world:

Tbh I don't have much sympathy for people who break these kinds of laws because they know the laws exist and often go out of their way to violate them. It's one thing if they're being punished for their beliefs, which I'm against, but it's another to publicly insult the country's religion, it's intentionally inflammatory and there's no reason to do so except to start arguments about it. It's like that Saudi refugee who everyone said was just being persecuted when she went out of her way to insult powerful sheikhs publicly.

Religious laws are fucking trash.

And Malaysia.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Tbh I don't have much sympathy for people who break these kinds of laws because they know the laws exist and often go out of their way to violate them. It's one thing if they're being punished for their beliefs, which I'm against, but it's another to publicly insult the country's religion, it's intentionally inflammatory and there's no reason to do so except to start arguments about it. It's like that Saudi refugee who everyone said was just being persecuted when she went out of her way to insult powerful sheikhs publicly.

It's not as if Malaysia is an apartheid society where non-Muslims have no rights like in the American South during Jim Crow. He didn't post what he posted as a protest of Islamic society, he posted it to insult Muslims.

[Yusseria]

People should still be able to speak. If you're so weak you require laws to protect you/your religion from insults, it's you who is the problem, not the person doing the insulting.

If I said a bunch of inflammatory shit about you and your religion, I'm the bad guy. As soon as you throw me in jail for a decade for that, it is you who is doing wrong.

I'm not even Muslim, and many of my co-religionists live in Muslim countries where they have to abide by such laws, the laws make sense because they allow different religions to live in peace without compromising what each believes. Absolute free speech is dumb.

Perhaps it's better to eliminate that religious fundamentalism rather than forcing people to abide by Draconian laws.

[Andsed]

Tbh I don't have much sympathy for people who break these kinds of laws because they know the laws exist and often go out of their way to violate them. It's one thing if they're being punished for their beliefs, which I'm against, but it's another to publicly insult the country's religion, it's intentionally inflammatory and there's no reason to do so except to start arguments about it. It's like that Saudi refugee who everyone said was just being persecuted when she went out of her way to insult powerful sheikhs publicly.

Sure it may be a dick thing to do but throwing someone in jail for it is utterly ridiculous.