Malaysian jailed for 10 years for "insulting Islam"

[Astoriya]

I’ve said earlier it seems it’s been redacted

So for all we know he could've just said "I don't like Al-Islam", or said "the Islamic Scholars here are bad" and got jailed. Well this seems pretty effed up.

That shouldn't be a cause for a decade-long prison sentence - it's not exactly on Amos Yee levels

[Liriena]

"Finally someone made the strawman"?

Strawman? Most leftists reject them own beliefs if it hurts someone's feelings anyway.

[citation needed]

[New Sukberia]

You can't argue that the extreme views are a minority though, that's my main point and takeaway from these stats. I have nothing against moderate Islam, but when people defend any extreme belief and dismiss it as "not all (insert name here)" the real issue and problem is ignored. If the majority of Christians were extreme, I'd complain about Christianity way more than I already do.

If you look at other religions it's the same, I believe Hinduism also has quite a few issues, seeing how it literally justifies and explains the class system, cementing it and forcing the poor to stay poor as "punishment from a past life of sin". And don't get me started on the poor Tibetans under the Buddhist priests.

Also as a sidenote, 4 years old isn't that unreliable, not that much will change in terms of beliefs and morals over a 4 year period in a whole country without something drastic occurring.

I'm not defending any extreme beliefs - yes, it's obvious that there are some, but they cannot represent all 1.5 billion of us, because they're just a vocal minority
(Well, taking into account that most of these terror attacks started around 2016, it could all change)

You mean the Isis inspired terrrorist atracks? In 2016?

No, they didn't start in 2016, if that's what you mean.

[New Sukberia]

Strawman? Most leftists reject them own beliefs if it hurts someone's feelings anyway.

[citation needed]

Yeah i don't really have a citation, so you can ignore what i said.

[Handecanistan]

So they're not real Muslims believing in Islam? Even though they are probably more classic believers and moderate Islamic beliefs are a relatively recent thing? Both moderate and extremist Islamic views are Islamic beliefs, you can argue that one of them isn't "truly Islamic", but that is up for debate, and in that case, which belief must be forced to rename themselves? The conservative and classical belief, or the new, more moderate belief?

I wasn't saying any of this, especially the 1st question.

Ok so what were you saying? Because if the majority of people believing something Islamic isn't necessarily Islamic, then it must be something?

[Astoriya]

I'm not defending any extreme beliefs - yes, it's obvious that there are some, but they cannot represent all 1.5 billion of us, because they're just a vocal minority
(Well, taking into account that most of these terror attacks started around 2016, it could all change)

You mean the Isis inspired terrrorist atracks? In 2016?

No, they didn't start in 2016, if that's what you mean.

By this I mean the new wave of attacks - before, they were few and not commonplace (11/9, 7/7, Bali & Madrid bombings, etc)

[New Sukberia]

You mean the Isis inspired terrrorist atracks? In 2016?

No, they didn't start in 2016, if that's what you mean.

By this I mean the new wave of attacks - before, they were few and not commonplace (11/9, 7/7, Bali & Madrid bombings, etc)

How about Paris 2015? Or Nice? Or Charlie Hebdo?

I remeber the Paris one, that's where my nephew and i got shards. Me on m'y shoulder, my nephew on his forehead.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I wasn't saying any of this, especially the 1st question.

Ok so what were you saying? Because if the majority of people believing something Islamic isn't necessarily Islamic, then it must be something?

I'm saying you saying that "the majority of Muslims believing x" doesn't necessarily make it a part of Al-Islam. For example if the majority of us started believing that 'Isa AS is the son of Allah SWT - astaghfirullah - that wouldn't be an Islamic teaching.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

No one should be jailed for insulting a religion.

Harassing adherents to the religion is another story, but you shouldn't be jailed for insulting a religion.

Separate that church and state.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

No one should be jailed for insulting a religion.

Harassing adherents to the religion is another story, but you shouldn't be jailed for insulting a religion.

Separate that church masjid and state.

Ftfy, and no.

[Darussalam]

Ok so what were you saying? Because if the majority of people believing something Islamic isn't necessarily Islamic, then it must be something?

I'm saying you saying that "the majority of Muslims believing x" doesn't necessarily make it a part of Al-Islam. For example if the majority of us started believing that 'Isa AS is the son of Allah SWT - astaghfirullah - that wouldn't be an Islamic teaching.

Nobody cares. People care about what Muslims actually think and do, not theological pedantism on what constitutes True Islam that would make sense only if you believe it to be a literal word of God anyway.

[Handecanistan]

You mean the Isis inspired terrrorist atracks? In 2016?

No, they didn't start in 2016, if that's what you mean.

By this I mean the new wave of attacks - before, they were few and not commonplace (11/9, 7/7, Bali & Madrid bombings, etc)

The graphs show that, at the very least, around half of all Muslims have extreme Islamic beliefs, they are most certainly not the vocal minority.

I also don't see a difference between the terror attacks by ISIS and and by Al-Quada, as far as I'm concerned they're essentially the same group with a different name and logo. Dunno whether you think Islamic extremism would have risen or fallen after the terror attacks though, my assumption would be a rise in extremism tbh.

[New Sukberia]

No one should be jailed for insulting a religion.

Harassing adherents to the religion is another story, but you shouldn't be jailed for insulting a religion.

Separate that church masjid and state.

Ftfy, and no.

Why have blasphemy if your religion is true? Oh wait....

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

No one should be jailed for insulting a religion.

Harassing adherents to the religion is another story, but you shouldn't be jailed for insulting a religion.

Separate that church masjid and state.

Ftfy, and no.

"Church" can in this context just mean "place of worship for the majority religion in any given country", and yes yes you should.

[Handecanistan]

Ok so what were you saying? Because if the majority of people believing something Islamic isn't necessarily Islamic, then it must be something?

I'm saying you saying that "the majority of Muslims believing x" doesn't necessarily make it a part of Al-Islam. For example if the majority of us started believing that 'Isa AS is the son of Allah SWT - astaghfirullah - that wouldn't be an Islamic teaching.

Ok, so what if the belief is an Islamic teaching from the Qur'an? Which is what we're talking about?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

The graphs show that, at the very least, around half of all Muslims have extreme Islamic beliefs.

Which one?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I'm saying you saying that "the majority of Muslims believing x" doesn't necessarily make it a part of Al-Islam. For example if the majority of us started believing that 'Isa AS is the son of Allah SWT - astaghfirullah - that wouldn't be an Islamic teaching.

Ok, so what if the belief is an Islamic teaching from the Qur'an? Which is what we're talking about?

I thought you were just talking about Muslims believing something. Also, I have not found anything about a penalty for blasphemy in the Holy Qur'an.

[Darussalam]

It's a strictly Islamic phenomenon in Malaysia.

For the rest of the world, most blasphemy cases are prosecuted in Muslim countries.

Astounded by this high IQ math

Assuming (roflmao) that your math is right, you seriously think 30% of Muslims supporting killing apostates is an acceptable small minority?

Not 30% of Muslims - where did you even get that from
As said earlier, how about getting something that isn't 4 years out of date, eh ?

I have given my citation. You haven't demonstrated any counter-evidence to show, as you claimed, that views otherwise considered extreme by the rest of humanity are held by a "vocal minority" only.

Extrapolating from the trend, it's practically impossible that there would be substantial change that reduces the number of Muslims supportive of death penalty to apostates from the poll's figures to "extreme minority" by 2019.

[Handecanistan]

The graphs show that, at the very least, around half of all Muslims have extreme Islamic beliefs.

Which one?

Look at page 5 and you'll see them about Sharia law and executing those that convert away from Islam. On page 6 I went through the averages of the graphs too, 42.8% for executing converts and 56.2% for Sharia law. It doesn't include the data for those that said no or who were undecided/ unsure. They looked at 20 countries for the executing converts one and 38 for the Sharia law one.

The main conclusion I draw from them is that about half of the Muslim population believe in these extreme values. If you were to call these numbers "loud minorities" you may as well say that Brexit voters had a landslide victory over the remainer minority, who only had a pathetic 48% of the votes.

[Bear Stearns]

I don't see what's wrong with it. Malaysia is not a caliphate. It runs a state for the purpose of societal order - the demographics of which would cause an all-out war if said state collapsed. As it did before.

The fact that Malaysia simultaneously jails people for "insulting Islam" while deporting people for being part of Saudi wahhabist groups and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood show that they are not extremist in any way. They have the same modus operandi as Tunisia, Lebanon and Jordan. A closed-fist state with order as priority, doing everything it needs to do to ensure that continues to be the case.

It doesn't matter how many people they jail for insulting Islam, ceteris paribus.

Portugal and Poland were also uber authoritarian right-wing dictatorships in the interwar period, and were jailing fascists everyday. The end goal of which is to ensure that the social fabric remains intact.

Could you imagine the Jihadi shitstorm that would happen if the government of Malaysia collapsed?

[Khataiy]

Good, and back when Iraq had a real government they used to arrest people who insulted the companions and wives of the Prophet Muhammad which is as bad as insulting Islam.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Which one?

Look at page 5 and you'll see them about Sharia law and executing those that convert away from Islam. On page 6 I went through the averages of the graphs too, 42.8% for executing converts and 56.2% for Sharia law. It doesn't include the data for those that said no or who were undecided/ unsure. They looked at 20 countries for the executing converts one and 38 for the Sharia law one.

The main conclusion I draw from them is that about half of the Muslim population believe in these extreme values. If you were to call these numbers "loud minorities" you may as well say that Brexit voters had a landslide victory over the remainer minority, who only had a pathetic 48% of the votes.

Supporting Shari'ah isn't an extreme belief in Al-Islam. Shari'ah is literally the basis of Al-Islam, it guide who we are as Muslims.

I don't see what's wrong with it. Malaysia is not a caliphate. It runs a state for the purpose of societal order - the demographics of which would cause an all-out war if said state collapsed. As it did before.

The fact that Malaysia simultaneously jails people for "insulting Islam" while deporting people for being part of Saudi wahhabist groups and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood show that they are not extremist in any way. They have the same modus operandi as Tunisia, Lebanon and Jordan. A closed-fist state with order as priority, doing everything it needs to do to ensure that continues to be the case.

It doesn't matter how many people they jail for insulting Islam, ceteris paribus.

Portugal and Poland were also uber authoritarian right-wing dictatorships in the interwar period, and were jailing fascists everyday. The end goal of which is to ensure that the social fabric remains intact.

Could you imagine the Jihadi shi*storm that would happen if the government of Malaysia collapsed?

Assuming you're using the word "jihadi" right, no.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Good, and back when Iraq had a real government they used to arrest people who insulted the companions and wives of the Prophet Muhammad which is as bad as insulting Islam.

Is there an Islamic basis for penalizing blasphemous people tho?

[Bear Stearns]

Look at page 5 and you'll see them about Sharia law and executing those that convert away from Islam. On page 6 I went through the averages of the graphs too, 42.8% for executing converts and 56.2% for Sharia law. It doesn't include the data for those that said no or who were undecided/ unsure. They looked at 20 countries for the executing converts one and 38 for the Sharia law one.

The main conclusion I draw from them is that about half of the Muslim population believe in these extreme values. If you were to call these numbers "loud minorities" you may as well say that Brexit voters had a landslide victory over the remainer minority, who only had a pathetic 48% of the votes.

Supporting Shari'ah isn't an extreme belief in Al-Islam. Shari'ah is literally the basis of Al-Islam, it guide who we are as Muslims.

That is why so many people have problems with your religion.

[North German Realm]

Good, and back when Iraq had a real government they used to arrest people who insulted the companions and wives of the Prophet Muhammad which is as bad as insulting Islam.

Is there an Islamic basis for penalizing blasphemous people tho?

It's usually execution, but meh.