That shouldn't be a cause for a decade-long prison sentence - it's not exactly on Amos Yee levels
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by Liriena » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:02 am
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by New Sukberia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:02 am
Astoriya wrote:Handecanistan wrote:
You can't argue that the extreme views are a minority though, that's my main point and takeaway from these stats. I have nothing against moderate Islam, but when people defend any extreme belief and dismiss it as "not all (insert name here)" the real issue and problem is ignored. If the majority of Christians were extreme, I'd complain about Christianity way more than I already do.
If you look at other religions it's the same, I believe Hinduism also has quite a few issues, seeing how it literally justifies and explains the class system, cementing it and forcing the poor to stay poor as "punishment from a past life of sin". And don't get me started on the poor Tibetans under the Buddhist priests.
Also as a sidenote, 4 years old isn't that unreliable, not that much will change in terms of beliefs and morals over a 4 year period in a whole country without something drastic occurring.
I'm not defending any extreme beliefs - yes, it's obvious that there are some, but they cannot represent all 1.5 billion of us, because they're just a vocal minority
(Well, taking into account that most of these terror attacks started around 2016, it could all change)
by New Sukberia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:03 am
by Handecanistan » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:04 am
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Handecanistan wrote:
So they're not real Muslims believing in Islam? Even though they are probably more classic believers and moderate Islamic beliefs are a relatively recent thing? Both moderate and extremist Islamic views are Islamic beliefs, you can argue that one of them isn't "truly Islamic", but that is up for debate, and in that case, which belief must be forced to rename themselves? The conservative and classical belief, or the new, more moderate belief?
I wasn't saying any of this, especially the 1st question.
by Astoriya » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:05 am
New Sukberia wrote:Astoriya wrote:I'm not defending any extreme beliefs - yes, it's obvious that there are some, but they cannot represent all 1.5 billion of us, because they're just a vocal minority
(Well, taking into account that most of these terror attacks started around 2016, it could all change)
You mean the Isis inspired terrrorist atracks? In 2016?
No, they didn't start in 2016, if that's what you mean.
by New Sukberia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:07 am
by El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:08 am
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:09 am
by El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:10 am
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:No one should be jailed for insulting a religion.
Harassing adherents to the religion is another story, but you shouldn't be jailed for insulting a religion.
Separate thatchurchmasjid and state.
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)
by Darussalam » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:11 am
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Handecanistan wrote:
Ok so what were you saying? Because if the majority of people believing something Islamic isn't necessarily Islamic, then it must be something?
I'm saying you saying that "the majority of Muslims believing x" doesn't necessarily make it a part of Al-Islam. For example if the majority of us started believing that 'Isa AS is the son of Allah SWT - astaghfirullah - that wouldn't be an Islamic teaching.
by Handecanistan » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:11 am
by New Sukberia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:12 am
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:14 am
by Handecanistan » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:14 am
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Handecanistan wrote:
Ok so what were you saying? Because if the majority of people believing something Islamic isn't necessarily Islamic, then it must be something?
I'm saying you saying that "the majority of Muslims believing x" doesn't necessarily make it a part of Al-Islam. For example if the majority of us started believing that 'Isa AS is the son of Allah SWT - astaghfirullah - that wouldn't be an Islamic teaching.
by El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:14 am
Handecanistan wrote:The graphs show that, at the very least, around half of all Muslims have extreme Islamic beliefs.
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)
by El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:15 am
Handecanistan wrote:El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I'm saying you saying that "the majority of Muslims believing x" doesn't necessarily make it a part of Al-Islam. For example if the majority of us started believing that 'Isa AS is the son of Allah SWT - astaghfirullah - that wouldn't be an Islamic teaching.
Ok, so what if the belief is an Islamic teaching from the Qur'an? Which is what we're talking about?
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)
by Darussalam » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:16 am
Astoriya wrote:Darussalam wrote:It's a strictly Islamic phenomenon in Malaysia.
For the rest of the world, most blasphemy cases are prosecuted in Muslim countries.
Astounded by this high IQ math
Assuming (roflmao) that your math is right, you seriously think 30% of Muslims supporting killing apostates is an acceptable small minority?
Not 30% of Muslims - where did you even get that from
As said earlier, how about getting something that isn't 4 years out of date, eh ?
by Handecanistan » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:21 am
by Bear Stearns » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:25 am
Definitely Not Trumptonium wrote:I don't see what's wrong with it. Malaysia is not a caliphate. It runs a state for the purpose of societal order - the demographics of which would cause an all-out war if said state collapsed. As it did before.
The fact that Malaysia simultaneously jails people for "insulting Islam" while deporting people for being part of Saudi wahhabist groups and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood show that they are not extremist in any way. They have the same modus operandi as Tunisia, Lebanon and Jordan. A closed-fist state with order as priority, doing everything it needs to do to ensure that continues to be the case.
It doesn't matter how many people they jail for insulting Islam, ceteris paribus.
Portugal and Poland were also uber authoritarian right-wing dictatorships in the interwar period, and were jailing fascists everyday. The end goal of which is to ensure that the social fabric remains intact.
by El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:28 am
Handecanistan wrote:El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Which one?
Look at page 5 and you'll see them about Sharia law and executing those that convert away from Islam. On page 6 I went through the averages of the graphs too, 42.8% for executing converts and 56.2% for Sharia law. It doesn't include the data for those that said no or who were undecided/ unsure. They looked at 20 countries for the executing converts one and 38 for the Sharia law one.
The main conclusion I draw from them is that about half of the Muslim population believe in these extreme values. If you were to call these numbers "loud minorities" you may as well say that Brexit voters had a landslide victory over the remainer minority, who only had a pathetic 48% of the votes.
Bear Stearns wrote:Definitely Not Trumptonium wrote:I don't see what's wrong with it. Malaysia is not a caliphate. It runs a state for the purpose of societal order - the demographics of which would cause an all-out war if said state collapsed. As it did before.
The fact that Malaysia simultaneously jails people for "insulting Islam" while deporting people for being part of Saudi wahhabist groups and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood show that they are not extremist in any way. They have the same modus operandi as Tunisia, Lebanon and Jordan. A closed-fist state with order as priority, doing everything it needs to do to ensure that continues to be the case.
It doesn't matter how many people they jail for insulting Islam, ceteris paribus.
Portugal and Poland were also uber authoritarian right-wing dictatorships in the interwar period, and were jailing fascists everyday. The end goal of which is to ensure that the social fabric remains intact.
Could you imagine the Jihadi shi*storm that would happen if the government of Malaysia collapsed?
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)
by El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:29 am
Khataiy wrote:Good, and back when Iraq had a real government they used to arrest people who insulted the companions and wives of the Prophet Muhammad which is as bad as insulting Islam.
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)
by Bear Stearns » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:30 am
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Handecanistan wrote:
Look at page 5 and you'll see them about Sharia law and executing those that convert away from Islam. On page 6 I went through the averages of the graphs too, 42.8% for executing converts and 56.2% for Sharia law. It doesn't include the data for those that said no or who were undecided/ unsure. They looked at 20 countries for the executing converts one and 38 for the Sharia law one.
The main conclusion I draw from them is that about half of the Muslim population believe in these extreme values. If you were to call these numbers "loud minorities" you may as well say that Brexit voters had a landslide victory over the remainer minority, who only had a pathetic 48% of the votes.
Supporting Shari'ah isn't an extreme belief in Al-Islam. Shari'ah is literally the basis of Al-Islam, it guide who we are as Muslims.
by North German Realm » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:30 am
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.
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