The Mueller Probe is Complete - Longer OP Edition

[San Montalbano]

you referring to the incidents which have nothing to do with Trump collusion? those points?

Obama was born in Hawaii, but even if he was born in Kenya it wouldn't have mattered at all. His mother was a US citizen, which would make Obama a US citizen no matter what. Which is why Ted Cruz was able to run despite being born in Canada.

As for the Russian collusion being a 'tin foil hat conspiracy', that's not true. There are multiple people in Trump's inner circle that have pleaded guilty to wrongdoings, including Manafront and Flynn and Rick Gates, and George Papadopoulos.

If anything, denying the collusion is the real conspiracy

I told you that there were people involved in Trump's campaign that pleaded guilty. That is not propaganda.

yes they did plead guilty....but they were not related to some conspiracy that Trump is colluding with russians.

most were shit that many politicians are guilty off, money issues etc etc, not excusing that behavior but if you shook the political branch on either side you would find that.

[San Montalbano]

yeah I heard that dumb rant which didn't offer any real evidence, but it sounded good I will give it that.

Cool. None of those things he said are actually in dispute, but you do you.

yeah, there is also no disputing that what he is saying has nothing to do with Russian collusion and?

[WENDIP SHIPPER]

I told you that there were people involved in Trump's campaign that pleaded guilty. That is not propaganda.

yes they did plead guilty....but they were not related to some conspiracy that Trump is colluding with russians.

most were shit that many politicians are guilty off, money issues etc etc, not excusing that behavior but if you shook the political branch on either side you would find that.

They are literally in Trump's campaign. How can Trump himself not be involved?????

And guess what? I never said that corruption is exclusive to the Republican party. But to cover your ears and pretend that nothing is happening, or that it's insignificant, well, I just can't agree with that. Sorry.

[Cannot think of a name]

Cool. None of those things he said are actually in dispute, but you do you.

yeah, there is also no disputing that what he is saying has nothing to do with Russian collusion and?

That's precious.

[Forsher]

Right there, your main point is about how it should be investigated. Naturally, a response to that will have investigation, rather than gloating, as the main point. Oh look, it does:

Yes.

You can investigate it, but what the MSNBC, CNN, and several Congressmen did, is claim that there will be impeachment and clear collusion found, before the investigation was completed. That didn't happen, so now there's going to be gloating from the other camp.

That response is primarily pointing out that it's one thing to investigate it, and another to go on an impeachment hunt. The corollary to that merely states a fact of American Politics. That's why there are 29 words addressing the main point, and half as much merely stating what will happen. And here is the post that you were responding to:

How many ways can I possibly rephrase this I HAVE IDENTIFIED THE INVESTIGATIVE IMPEACHMENT HUNT AS YOUR MAIN POINT.

For Christ's sake I have repeatedly pointed out that what you have been calling referring to as gloating and what I have been calling gloating, raving and hysterical witch hunting are DIFFERENT things.

And, yet, here we are... with you claiming that your gloating and my gloating are the same thing.

And, yes, it is stupid to call two different things gloating but I've been doing it since the start and have already pointed the stupidity of this out. Not that, clearly, you've noticed.

I'm not even sure where I said that gloating was stupid in the above cited quote, but if you're going to imagine things like Forsher does - why not go all the way?

That would be because, as far as that summary is concerned, you never wrote this:

That didn't happen, so now there's going to be gloating from the other camp.

Why? Because your "corollary" is so trivial as to be completely and utterly irrelevant to the summary.

What you did do, however, is negatively evaluate the impeachment witch hunting... hence:

people were gloating (aka raving aka being hysterical witch hunters) and that's stupid

Have you once stopped to ask yourself why the italicised exists? Put it into this elaboration, for example:

The problem here is that I'm saying that "people [loosely, Democrats] were gloating (aka raving aka being hysterical witch hunters) and that's stupid" whereas in your post you're saying "because the Democrats were being stupid, there's going to be gloating by the other camp [loosely, Republicans]"

.

The sense doesn't change. And why is that? Because the Democrats (CNN... whatever arbitrary label you want to use to represent everyone doing this) were gloating. "Ooh, boy, Donnie's in for it now. Mueller gonna lock him up. #DraintheSwamp".

Saying this equates to calling for a witch-hunt doesn't work as well but on the other hand that's not what you said originally:

MSNBC, CNN, several Congressmen did, is claim that there will be impeachment and clear collusion found, before the investigation was completed

Your problem here is that Democrats were putting the cart before the horse and assuming an investigation would return a desirable result about which gloating (aka raving aka being hysterical witch hunters) can occur. However, from what you've been saying it is clear that whatever you understand "impeachment hunt" to mean is completely equivalent to "the Democrats assumed that investigations into Trump would demonstrate wrongdoing on Trump's part". And so, like a rational and honest poster, I treat the terms as having the same meaning: (aka raving aka being hysterical witch hunters). In return, though? Like every other time I say "tap" and you say "faucet" I get a reply where you insist we're talking about completely different things.

It even applies when I explicitly point out that we're talking about different things. Now, suddenly, to you, we must be discussing the same things!

Notice the word "were"? Even ignoring that it is a gross oversight on my part to use the word you associate with the behaviour of the Republicans to describe the behaviour of the Democrats, the tense change should have clued you in.

i.e. Shof, my words aren't (this time) saying the same thing as yours

I wasn't talking about gloating in the quote that you just quoted. I was talking about how, instead of conducting a calm investigation, it was turned into a witch hunt. How're those CNN ratings doing? See Forsher, that question - that's gloating. Pointing out that a calm investigation shouldn't be a witch hunt - isn't gloating.

i.e. when you say gloating you mean what I (Shof) said when I wrote gloating even though you've literally just written "the word you associate with the behaviour of the Republicans to describe the behaviour of the Democrats" to try and tell me that you cocked up and made a horribly confusing terminological choice.

Have you, once, stopped to answer these kinds of questions? Why is Forsher saying we're talking about different things? Why is Forsher writing gloating (aka raving aka being hysterical witch hunters)?

Either you have and came to completely stupid answers like "Forsher's lying" or you haven't bothered. Either way, that's the problem with how you've approached... probably every conversation we've ever had... but certainly this one here.

Really, it amuses me to keep reading posts that work like this:

>I was saying this and you completely misrepresented it
*quotes Forsher saying exactly what Shof describes himself as saying*

But I haven't got the time for this. You're blocked, Shof. Goodbye forever.

[San Montalbano]

yes they did plead guilty....but they were not related to some conspiracy that Trump is colluding with russians.

most were shit that many politicians are guilty off, money issues etc etc, not excusing that behavior but if you shook the political branch on either side you would find that.

They are literally in Trump's campaign. How can Trump himself not be involved?????

And guess what? I never said that corruption is exclusive to the Republican party. But to cover your ears and pretend that nothing is happening, or that it's insignificant, well, I just can't agree with that. Sorry.

I'm not saying NOTHING is happening, I'm saying Trump didn't collude with Russia

some members of his campaign are crooks

oh the shock!

[WENDIP SHIPPER]

They are literally in Trump's campaign. How can Trump himself not be involved?????

And guess what? I never said that corruption is exclusive to the Republican party. But to cover your ears and pretend that nothing is happening, or that it's insignificant, well, I just can't agree with that. Sorry.

I'm not saying NOTHING is happening, I'm saying Trump didn't collude with Russia

some members of his campaign are crooks

oh the shock!

It doesn't have to be shocking. I know that I certainly wasn't shocked. But you cannot just sure back and say "well everyone does it" just to excuse them. I don't care. That doesn't make their actions ok.

And if Trump were such a hero he would be doing more to dispose of these people, rather than trying to hide shit by sweeping it under the rug.

[Gormwood]

They are literally in Trump's campaign. How can Trump himself not be involved?????

And guess what? I never said that corruption is exclusive to the Republican party. But to cover your ears and pretend that nothing is happening, or that it's insignificant, well, I just can't agree with that. Sorry.

I'm not saying NOTHING is happening, I'm saying Trump didn't collude with Russia

some members of his campaign are crooks

oh the shock!

Maybe it's just me, but historically the presidencies where the President is surrounded by crooks tend to not do so well.

[San Montalbano]

I'm not saying NOTHING is happening, I'm saying Trump didn't collude with Russia

some members of his campaign are crooks

oh the shock!

It doesn't have to be shocking. I know that I certainly wasn't shocked. But you cannot just sure back and say "well everyone does it" just to excuse them. I don't care. That doesn't make their actions ok.

And if Trump were such a hero he would be doing more to dispose of these people, rather than trying to hide shit by sweeping it under the rug.

I think your super mad that they found no collussion so your jumping on the " Well lets dig and claw and see if we can get him for anything else, even though the WHOLE REASON we started it is because of Russia, fuck it though it was never about justice, it was about getting rid of him, because if it was about Russia we would have taken Mueller at his word" bandwagon.

but let's be honest here...this is just like kavanaugh, even with no evidence.

[Gormwood]

It doesn't have to be shocking. I know that I certainly wasn't shocked. But you cannot just sure back and say "well everyone does it" just to excuse them. I don't care. That doesn't make their actions ok.

And if Trump were such a hero he would be doing more to dispose of these people, rather than trying to hide shit by sweeping it under the rug.

I think your super mad that they found no collussion so your jumping on the " Well lets dig and claw and see if we can get him for anything else, even though the WHOLE REASON we started it is because of Russia, fuck it though it was never about justice, it was about getting rid of him, because if it was about Russia we would have taken Mueller at his word" bandwagon.

but let's be honest here...this is just like kavanaugh, even with no evidence.

James Comey and the FBI would have likely reached a similar conclusion that there was no real solid evidence of collusion, but Trump panicked stupidly and fired Comey before telling Lester Holt and the country he did it to shut down the investigation, thus compelling Rod Rosenstein to form the special counsel. Like Bashar Assad, Trump managed to survive a crisis that might have removed them from power of their own making.

[WENDIP SHIPPER]

It doesn't have to be shocking. I know that I certainly wasn't shocked. But you cannot just sure back and say "well everyone does it" just to excuse them. I don't care. That doesn't make their actions ok.

And if Trump were such a hero he would be doing more to dispose of these people, rather than trying to hide shit by sweeping it under the rug.

I think your super mad that they found no collussion so your jumping on the " Well lets dig and claw and see if we can get him for anything else, even though the WHOLE REASON we started it is because of Russia, fuck it though it was never about justice, it was about getting rid of him, because if it was about Russia we would have taken Mueller at his word" bandwagon.

but let's be honest here...this is just like kavanaugh, even with no evidence.

I'm not on any bandwagon. And honestly it doesn't matter who is doing the collusion. I couldn't give less of a fuck whether it was Donald Trump, or Hillary Clinton, or Ted Cruz, or Jeb Bush, or Joe Biden, or Bernie Sanders, or Bill O'Reilly, or Grunkle Stan, or Kevin Bacon, or the Pillsbury Doughboy who was being caught meddling with Russia. Guess what. I WOULD STILL CONDEM THEIR ACTIONS.

Honestly I don't even think you're reading my posts.

[San Montalbano]

I think your super mad that they found no collussion so your jumping on the " Well lets dig and claw and see if we can get him for anything else, even though the WHOLE REASON we started it is because of Russia, fuck it though it was never about justice, it was about getting rid of him, because if it was about Russia we would have taken Mueller at his word" bandwagon.

but let's be honest here...this is just like kavanaugh, even with no evidence.

I'm not on any bandwagon. And honestly it doesn't matter who is doing the collusion. I couldn't give less of a fuck whether it was Donald Trump, or Hillary Clinton, or Ted Cruz, or Jeb Bush, or Joe Biden, or Bernie Sanders, or Bill O'Reilly, or Grunkle Stan, or Kevin Bacon, or the Pillsbury Doughboy who was being caught meddling with Russia. Guess what. I WOULD STILL CONDEM THEIR ACTIONS.

Honestly I don't even think you're reading my posts.

what actions did Donald J Trump do that were treasonous

getting tired of deflection to other bullcrap, the Mueller probe's explicit primary goal was for collusion with russia.

[Neutraligon]

I'm not on any bandwagon. And honestly it doesn't matter who is doing the collusion. I couldn't give less of a fuck whether it was Donald Trump, or Hillary Clinton, or Ted Cruz, or Jeb Bush, or Joe Biden, or Bernie Sanders, or Bill O'Reilly, or Grunkle Stan, or Kevin Bacon, or the Pillsbury Doughboy who was being caught meddling with Russia. Guess what. I WOULD STILL CONDEM THEIR ACTIONS.

Honestly I don't even think you're reading my posts.

what actions did Donald J Trump do that were treasonous

getting tired of deflection to other bullcrap, the Mueller probe's explicit primary goal was for collusion with russia.

Where did you get treasonous from? And yes the Mueller probe was about collusion and then also about obstruction.

[San Montalbano]

what actions did Donald J Trump do that were treasonous

getting tired of deflection to other bullcrap, the Mueller probe's explicit primary goal was for collusion with russia.

Where did you get treasonous from? And yes the Mueller probe was about collusion and then also about obstruction.

the goal is remove Trump, this was merley a method of doing it. It failed, that's why they are pissed and are now DEMANDING that Mueller be brought before congress etc etc

guarantee they wouldn't have done that if Mueller found real collusion, this is merely a desperate attempt to squeak out some kind of "win"

which is fucked up because they were hoping he was a traitor.

[Neutraligon]

Where did you get treasonous from? And yes the Mueller probe was about collusion and then also about obstruction.

the goal is remove Trump, this was merley a method of doing it. It failed, that's why they are pissed and are now DEMANDING that Mueller be brought before congress etc etc

guarantee they wouldn't have done that if Mueller found real collusion, this is merely a desperate attempt to squeak out some kind of "win"

which is fucked up because they were hoping he was a traitor.

If Mueller had found that Trump had colluded he would have been called before congress to testify about that. As it is he is being called before congress to talk about his report, since the summary we got doesn't really say all that much

[Gormwood]

Where did you get treasonous from? And yes the Mueller probe was about collusion and then also about obstruction.

the goal is remove Trump, this was merley a method of doing it. It failed, that's why they are pissed and are now DEMANDING that Mueller be brought before congress etc etc

guarantee they wouldn't have done that if Mueller found real collusion, this is merely a desperate attempt to squeak out some kind of "win"

which is fucked up because they were hoping he was a traitor.

Ahem.

James Comey and the FBI would have likely reached a similar conclusion that there was no real solid evidence of collusion, but Trump panicked stupidly and fired Comey before telling Lester Holt and the country he did it to shut down the investigation, thus compelling Rod Rosenstein to form the special counsel. Like Bashar Assad, Trump managed to survive a crisis that might have removed them from power of their own making.

[San Montalbano]

the goal is remove Trump, this was merley a method of doing it. It failed, that's why they are pissed and are now DEMANDING that Mueller be brought before congress etc etc

guarantee they wouldn't have done that if Mueller found real collusion, this is merely a desperate attempt to squeak out some kind of "win"

which is fucked up because they were hoping he was a traitor.

If Mueller had found that Trump had colluded he would have been called before congress to testify about that. As it is he is being called before congress to talk about his report, since the summary we got doesn't really say all that much

right

the thing is though, there is no COLLUSION which was the whole reason it was launched, thole reason MSM has been jerking off to it, and the whole reason we got to deal with nut bags on social media and tv screaming about Trump being some kind of manchurian candidate.

it's like that never happend and " OH no, it's all about the "crimes" he MUST have committed...yeah yeah...we can maybe try and get him on a technicality or something."

[Neutraligon]

If Mueller had found that Trump had colluded he would have been called before congress to testify about that. As it is he is being called before congress to talk about his report, since the summary we got doesn't really say all that much

right

the thing is though, there is no COLLUSION which was the whole reason it was launched, thole reason MSM has been jerking off to it, and the whole reason we got to deal with nut bags on social media and tv screaming about Trump being some kind of manchurian candidate.

it's like that never happend and " OH no, it's all about the "crimes" he MUST have committed...yeah yeah...we can maybe try and get him on a technicality or something."

No, what wa said was there was there was not sufficient evidence for Trump to be "indited" for collusion, not that there was no collusion.

[Shofercia]

to think Trump colluded with the Russians is tin-foil levels of nuts

it's as stupid as the people who said that Obama was a kenyan muslim.

Obama was born in Hawaii, but even if he was born in Kenya it wouldn't have mattered at all. His mother was a US citizen, which would make Obama a US citizen no matter what. Which is why Ted Cruz was able to run despite being born in Canada.

As for the Russian collusion being a 'tin foil hat conspiracy', that's not true. There are multiple people in Trump's inner circle that have pleaded guilty to wrongdoings, including Manafront and Flynn and Rick Gates, and George Papadopoulos.

If anything, denying the collusion is the real conspiracy

You do realize that their crimes were either procedural in nature, i.e. wouldn't have happened if they took the Fifth, or had to do with money laundering or identity theft, right? That's not Russian Collusion.

The lack of concern at the numerous financial and political crimes committed by Trump associates and staffers as well as Trump's likelihood of committing financial crimes merely because Trump's personal collusion could not conclusively be proven strikes me as bizaare.

The lack of concern by the Democrats about their leaders being wrong about Russian Collusion, about Schiff continuing to lie, even after the report came about, that's what strikes me as bizarre.

No it dosn't because you do not have proof of anything other than CNN talking points.

Mr. Schiff, would you like to take this?

It'd be best if you didn't quote him lying his pants off: "Trump's son said he'd love the help of the Russians"
Actual report said: "as noted above, the Special Counsel did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple. offers from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign."

Have fun with liars like Schiff in the 2020 election!

yes they did plead guilty....but they were not related to some conspiracy that Trump is colluding with russians.

most were shit that many politicians are guilty off, money issues etc etc, not excusing that behavior but if you shook the political branch on either side you would find that.

They are literally in Trump's campaign. How can Trump himself not be involved?????

Quite easily. He didn't lie to the FBI or Mueller, and didn't engage in tax evasion or identity theft.

I'm not saying NOTHING is happening, I'm saying Trump didn't collude with Russia

some members of his campaign are crooks

oh the shock!

Maybe it's just me, but historically the presidencies where the President is surrounded by crooks tend to not do so well.

Would you prefer cartel gun suppliers like Eric Holder?

[Cannot think of a name]

I think your super mad that they found no collussion so your jumping on the " Well lets dig and claw and see if we can get him for anything else, even though the WHOLE REASON we started it is because of Russia, fuck it though it was never about justice, it was about getting rid of him, because if it was about Russia we would have taken Mueller at his word" bandwagon.

but let's be honest here...this is just like kavanaugh, even with no evidence.

I'm not on any bandwagon. And honestly it doesn't matter who is doing the collusion. I couldn't give less of a fuck whether it was Donald Trump, or Hillary Clinton, or Ted Cruz, or Jeb Bush, or Joe Biden, or Bernie Sanders, or Bill O'Reilly, or Grunkle Stan, or Kevin Bacon, or the Pillsbury Doughboy who was being caught meddling with Russia. Guess what. I WOULD STILL CONDEM THEIR ACTIONS.

Honestly I don't even think you're reading my posts.

His response to a speech that included:
-Trumps sons and son in law and campaign officials taking a meeting with a Russian agent offering dirt on Clinton
-Trump helping craft the lie that it was about adoption
-Members of his staff offering data to Russian agents and Wikileaks
-Opening channels to undermine Russian sanctions
-Lying about a personal real estate deal with Russia

Was that it had nothing to do with Trump and Russia.

So no, I don't think he is reading your posts. You're not actually debating someone, you're putting coins in a machine.

[Cannot think of a name]

It'd be best if you didn't quote him lying his pants off: "Trump's son said he'd love the help of the Russians"
Actual report said: "as noted above, the Special Counsel did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple. offers from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign."

Have fun with liars like Schiff in the 2020 election!

I love it!

[Gormwood]

The lack of concern at the numerous financial and political crimes committed by Trump associates and staffers as well as Trump's likelihood of committing financial crimes merely because Trump's personal collusion could not conclusively be proven strikes me as bizaare.

The lack of concern by the Democrats about their leaders being wrong about Russian Collusion, about Schiff continuing to lie, even after the report came about, that's what strikes me as bizarre.

Why would it strike you as bizaare when you obviously subscribe to the theory that Democrats are determined to "get" Trump.and remove him by any means?

Plus overlooking the numerous crimes and guilty pleas are akin to a cop pulling over a car for speeding, seeing a stash of narcotics in the back seat and just letting the driver off with a ticket.

Maybe it's just me, but historically the presidencies where the President is surrounded by crooks tend to not do so well.

Would you prefer cartel gun suppliers like Eric Holder?

About that allegation...

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal

Some call it the “parade of ants”; others the “river of iron.” The Mexican government has estimated that 2,000 weapons are smuggled daily from the U.S. into Mexico. The ATF is hobbled in its effort to stop this flow. No federal statute outlaws firearms trafficking within the U.S., so agents must build cases using a patchwork of often toothless laws. For six years, due to Beltway politics, the bureau has gone without permanent leadership, neutered in its fight for funding and authority. The National Rifle Association has so successfully opposed a comprehensive electronic database of gun sales that the ATF’s congressional appropriation explicitly prohibits establishing one.

Quite simply, there’s a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.

[San Montalbano]

It'd be best if you didn't quote him lying his pants off: "Trump's son said he'd love the help of the Russians"
Actual report said: "as noted above, the Special Counsel did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple. offers from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign."

Have fun with liars like Schiff in the 2020 election!

I love it!

If you understood Trumps mannerisms you would see how he is bullshitting, he probably found the idea interesting, but hes clearly BSing.

that's like saying your brother is LITERALLY trying to murder you because he said he would "kill you" if you took his chips.

we all know hes kidding...

[Gormwood]

I love it!

If you understood Trumps mannerisms you would see how he is bullshitting, he probably found the idea interesting, but hes clearly BSing.

that's like saying your brother is LITERALLY trying to murder you because he said he would "kill you" if you took his chips.

we all know hes kidding...

Just like he's kidding when he called the Justice Department officials who did their jobs investigating him traitors I suppose?

[Cannot think of a name]

I love it!

If you understood Trumps mannerisms you would see how he is bullshitting, he probably found the idea interesting, but hes clearly BSing.

that's like saying your brother is LITERALLY trying to murder you because he said he would "kill you" if you took his chips.

we all know hes kidding...

Hahahaha...I think Homer tried that one on Marge once.