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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:03 pm
by Torrocca

The Left-Wing Discussion Thread
Vol. VII: YPG Edition!
Leave it All to the YPG :3*
Image
Now 1,000,000% more FULLY AUTOMATED AND A LGBT+ safe place thanks to the positive intersectionality of yours truly, The Anarkitty :3



So I'll be continuing to steal Comrade Conscentia's words, and post format, and resources (from previous supreme leader UMN) and welcome you all once again to the Left-Wing Discussion Thread (LWDT), where all are welcome to discuss all matters pertaining to the political left. This is a discussion thread about left-wing politics, not a thread exclusively for left-wing people. All are invited to post here, as long as discussion pertains to the topic and complies with the forum rules.

Suggestions for improvements, changes, or additions to the poll and opening post are very welcome.

The previous iteration of the LWDT can be found here.

Relevant subjects for discussion include:

  • The politics, philosophies, and ideologies of the political left.
  • Left-wing perspectives on economics and political economy.
  • News and history relevant to the political left.
  • Left-wing responses to current events.
  • Left-wing perspectives on social and economic problems.
  • Political, social, cultural, and economic problems and their solutions according to the political left.
  • Leftist intersectionality with movements aimed at alleviating the suffering of oppressed minority groups such as the LGBT+ community, oppressed racial minority groups, and more.
  • Bread, bread, bread, and bread! Thanks Bread Santa!
  • How Capitalism oppresses the working class laborers of society.
  • Why the concept of billionaires is a horrible concept for any society, ever.
  • The problems facing particular left-wing movements or the political left in general, and how to resolve them.

Poll History:

”What kind of Leftist are you?”
  • Centrist/Moderate/Third wayer - 279 (13%)
  • Social Liberal - 259 (12%)
  • Social Democrat - 338 (16%)
  • Green Progressive - 188 (9%)
  • Democratic Socialist - 433 (20%)
  • Marxist Communist - 246 (12%)
  • Anarchist Communist - 202 (10%)
  • Other (please state) - 176 (8%)
Total Votes: 2121 (Recorded 28/11/2016)

”What type of leftist are you?”
  • Left-leaning Centrist - 50 (12%)
  • Social Liberal - 57 (14%)
  • Social Democrat - 62 (15%)
  • Democratic Socialist - 80 (19%)
  • Marxist Communist - 59 (14%)
  • Anarchist Communist - 41 (10%)
  • Collectivist Anarchist - 9 (2%)
  • Individualist Anarchist - 10 (2%)
  • Revolutionary Syndicalist - 22 (5%)
  • Other (Please State) - 28 (7%)
Total Votes: 418 (Recorded 26/12/2016)

”What type of leftist are you?”
  • Left-leaning Centrist - 57 (13%)
  • Left/Social Liberal - 51 (12%)
  • Social Democrat - 73 (17%)
  • Democratic Socialist - 78 (18%)
  • Libertarian Marxist - 22 (5%)
  • Other Marxist - 43 (10%)
  • Social Anarchist - 31 (7%)
  • Individualist Anarchist - 13 (3%)
  • Revolutionary Syndicalist - 21 (5%)
  • Other (Please State) - 47 (11%)
Total Votes: 436 (Recorded 05/02/2017)

”Favourite Left-Wing Thinker?”
  • John Rawls - 11 (7%)
  • John Stuart Mill - 12 (8%)
  • Karl Marx - 44 (29%)
  • Max Stirner - 11 (7%)
  • Simone de Beauvoir - 1 (1%)
  • Noam Chomsky - 13 (9%)
  • Peter Kropotkin - 30 (20%)
  • Pierre-Joseph Proudhon - 6 (4%)
  • Slavoj Žižek - 7 (5%)
  • Other (Please State) - 15 (10%)
Total Votes: 150 (Recorded 19/02/2017)

”Favourite Left-Wing Politician?”
  • Bernie Sanders - 25 (17%)
  • Clement Attlee - 9 (6%)
  • Eugene V. Debs - 19 (13%)
  • Franklin D. Roosevelt - 37 (25%)
  • François Mitterand - 1 (1%)
  • Nikita Krushchev - 4 (3%)
  • Nelson Mandela - 21 (14%)
  • Salvador Allende - 8 (5%)
  • Tony Benn - 4 (3%)
  • Other (Please State) - 23 (15%)
Total Votes: 151 (Recorded 14/03/2017)

”Favourite Left-Wing Social Movement/Revolution?”
  • French Revolution, 1789 (France) - 61 (14%)
  • Spring Of Nations, 1848 (Europe) - 34 (8%)
  • October Revolution, 1917 (Russia) - 60 (14%)
  • Spanish Revolution, 1936 (Spain) - 57 (14%)
  • Chinese Communist Revolution, 1946 (China) - 14 (3%)
  • Resistance To Apartheid, 1950 (South Africa) - 24 (6%)
  • Cuban Revolution, 1953 (Cuba) - 19 (5%)
  • Civil Rights Movement, 1954 (USA) - 123 (29%)
  • Occupy Movement, 2011 (International) - 10 (2%)
  • Other (Please State) - 19 (5%)
Total Votes: 421 (Recorded 29/7/2017)

”Preferred economic system?”
  • Welfare Capitalism 92 (23%)
  • Market Socialism 62 (16%)
  • Mutualism 10 (3%)
  • Syndicalism 40 (10%)
  • Communalism 13 (3%)
  • State Planning 36 (9%)
  • Decentralised Planning 27 (7%)
  • Higher Phase Communism 38 (10%)
  • Left-wing Market Anarchism 15 (4%)
  • Other 67 (17%)
Total Votes: 400 (Recorded 05/11/2017)


Left-leaning Centrist
105 13%
Left/Social Liberal
74 9%
Social Democrat
115 14%
Democratic Socialist
139 17%
Marxist Communist
139 17%
Social Anarchist
50 6%
Individualist Anarchist
38 5%
Revolutionary Syndicalist
39 5%
Communalist
27 3%
Other (Please Post)
71 9%
Total votes : 797 (6/3/18)


Was Trotsky Polyamorous?
Yes 141 58%
Yes 103 42%


Who are the greatest threat to the Revolution?

Class traitors 9 5%
Social Democratic Fascists 17 9%
Bourgeois Homosexuals 30 16%
Kulaks 7 4%
Trotskyite Conspirator Saboteurs 16 9%
Actual Capitalists and Fascists 103 57%
Total votes : 182


Poll 1: Bread poll! Which Bread Anarchism is the best? (65 votes total)
  • Bread Santa, of course! - 3 (5%)
  • Bread Santa but more red. - 3 (5%)
  • Seriously? THIS is a poll? - 4 (6%)
  • Yes. - 3 (5%)
  • The Conquest of Bread. - 3 (5%)
  • I knead to get out of this thread. - 5 (8%)
  • Can you not be OP anymore? - 5 (8%)
  • No. - 13 (20%)
  • Fully Automated Luxury Hella Queer Space Anarchy forever! - 11 (17%) ( ;~; )
  • Torra, are you okay? Are you inbread? Because these poll options suck. - 15 (23%)

Poll 2: Roughly where do you sit on the left-wing of the political spectrum?

  • Yes. - 6 (17%)
  • Center-left, authoritarian. - 1 (3%)
  • Center-left, libertarian. - 3 (9%)
  • Center-left, centrist. - 4 (11%)
  • Mid-left, authoritarian. - 1 (3%)
  • Mid-left, libertarian. - 4 (11%)
  • Mid-left, centrist. - 3 (9%)
  • Far-left, authoritarian. - 1 (3%)
  • Far-left, libertarian. - 10 (29%)
  • Far-left, centrist. - 2 (6%)

Poll 3: Title Time! Which Title Should We Have?

  • Keep it as it is. - 4 (11%)
  • Yes. - 6 (17%)
  • Bread Dead Redemption. - 18 (50%)
  • Makhno Mistake, The Left is The Best! - 4 (11%)
  • The Right Can't Fight! - 4 (11%)


Poll 1: What do you think is currently the most successful existing example of a leftist movement globally?

  • Rojava, Northern Syria (2,000,000 people, acting as a governing body since 2014 and autonomous since 2016; Semi-Direct Democratic Libertarian Socialism) - 57 (40%)
  • The Zapatista Autonomous Communities, Chiapas, Mexico (364,000 people, autonomous since 1994; Direct Democratic Libertarian Socialism) - 37 (26%)
  • The DSA, USA (60,000 members as of 2019, founded in 1982; Democratic Socialist/Social Democratic, depending on region or person) - 11 (8%)
  • The International Workers' Association (17 member groups across the world, founded in 1922; Anarcho-Syndicalism) - 10 (7%)
  • The Committee for a Workers' Internationale (41 member groups globally, founded in 1974; Trotskyist) - 7 (5%)
  • Movement for Socialism, Bolivia (88/130 Deputies and 25/36 Senators, has democratically held power since 2006; Socialism of the 21st Century) - 20 (14%)


Reading Suggestions:
If you’re looking to read something relevant to left-wing politics, consider reading some of the texts below. If you think something’s missing from this list, please post a recommendation. If you think something should be removed, please explain why.



Video Suggestions:
If you’d rather watch something relevant to left-wing politics, consider having a look at some of the videos below. If you think something’s missing from this list, please post a recommendation. If you think something should be removed, please explain why.

Videos

YouTube Playlists

YouTube Channels


Lots of free leftist literature is available at:

Free leftist audiobooks are also available at:

Other useful resources:

If you’re interested in discussing matters pertaining to the political right, we can recommend several entirely voluntary re-education seminars to remedy this unfortunate perspective. So, get to it.

*as we now have developed our intellectual industry, we are immediately launching the people's revolution against the fascist forces of the RWDT
I dedicate this thread in honor of Torrocca's Anarchist Internet Commune. AMA about it :3

First Poll will be added shortily after the thread is secured in its position on NSG.

**The short-lived Samurai incursion into our leftist space has been obliterated swiftly.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:03 pm
by New haven america
>:3

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:04 pm
by Byzconia
Yusseria wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Fuck yeah, censor authoritarians.

God, the irony.

That's why it's called a paradox. Yes, defending freedom and democracy requires censoring groups that are opposed to freedom and democracy. It'd be nice if it weren't that way, but what we want and what "is" are sometimes two very different things.

Proctopeo wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
It's the paradox of intolerance, famalam. There's no problem with suppressing authoritarianism to preserve liberty.

I mean, sure, but if I went with that line of thinking I'd have to suppress you too.
As much fun as that might be you're more useful alive and free than alive and in a political prison.

Since she's not an authoritarian, no. At that point you'd literally just be suppressing a person for disagreeing with you, rather than because they present a legitimate threat to other people's wellbeing.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:04 pm
by Torrocca
New haven america wrote:>:3


Welcome to the YPGvolution, comrade. Your anti-ISIS results may vary, but only very goodly of course. :3

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:05 pm
by LiberNovusAmericae
Torrocca wrote:
New haven america wrote:>:3


Welcome to the YPGvolution, comrade. Your anti-ISIS results may vary, but only very goodly of course. :3

I'm glad to be on the first page, sir.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:05 pm
by Bienenhalde
Samurai? Really? Samurai were traditionalist aristocrats, what would they have to do with the left wing?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:06 pm
by Torrocca
Bienenhalde wrote:Samurai? Really? Samurai were traditionalist aristocrats, what would they have to do with the left wing?


... I-I liked Seven Samurai as a movie and I had nothing else on my mind r-regarding the number! I-It's totally not a call for a world-dominating system of Japanese Feudalism!

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:06 pm
by Crysuko
This is now a Maximist thread.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:06 pm
by Yusseria
Communism is bad.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:07 pm
by Conserative Morality
Crysuko wrote:This is now a Maximist thread.

This is now a minimalist thread.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:07 pm
by Uiiop
Yusseria wrote:Communism is bad.

Christianity is brilliant. :P

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:08 pm
by Torrocca
Conserative Morality wrote:
Crysuko wrote:This is now a Maximist thread.

This is now a minimalist thread.


This is now a moderatist thread. Any straying from the medium will be met with neutral squabbling.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:08 pm
by First American Empire
Crysuko wrote:This is now a Maximist thread.


Down with Maximism! Long live Revolutionary SocDem Netherlands!

EDIT: This is a somewhat obscure Kaiserreich reference. The Netherlands can have a leftist political revolution and join the Internationale... while continuously maintaining a Social Democratic government and a constitutional monarchy.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:08 pm
by Crysuko
Uiiop wrote:
Yusseria wrote:Communism is bad.

Christianity is brilliant. :P

religion is no longer needed, and must be retired.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:08 pm
by Byzconia
Reminder, the literal goddamn Nazis didn't persecute someone for training his dog to do the Nazi salute on command. They considered it, but decided it wasn't necessary to press charges against Tor Borg and his dog Jackie.

No, the literal goddamn Nazis just want to murder everyone who doesn't look like them. Clearly they have the moral high ground.

It's obvious, from the example given by Borg, that Dankula was making fun of the German Reich and not congratulating it, which is corroborated by his statements saying (paraphrasing here) that "wouldn't it be funny to make a cute thing do the least cute thing imaginable?".

His intent is completely irrelevant. We can't prove what he "intended," we can only prove what he did (not that I particularly give a shit what his intent was anyway).

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:09 pm
by LiberNovusAmericae
Bienenhalde wrote:Samurai? Really? Samurai were traditionalist aristocrats, what would they have to do with the left wing?

Either way, what happened to them in the end was awesome.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:09 pm
by Uiiop
Conserative Morality wrote:
Crysuko wrote:This is now a Maximist thread.

This is now a minimalist thread.

Now post-minimalism.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:10 pm
by Greater Westralia
Byzconia wrote:His intent is completely irrelevant. We can't prove what he "intended," we can only prove what he did (not that I particularly give a shit what his intent was anyway).

What he did was teach his dog to do a Hitler salute. It was a complete and utter non-issue.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:10 pm
by The Xenopolis Confederation
Torrocca wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:This is now a minimalist thread.


This is now a moderatist thread. Any straying from the medium will be met with neutral squabbling.

Damn right.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:11 pm
by Crysuko
Greater Westralia wrote:
Byzconia wrote:His intent is completely irrelevant. We can't prove what he "intended," we can only prove what he did (not that I particularly give a shit what his intent was anyway).

What he did was teach his dog to do a Hitler salute. It was a complete and utter non-issue.

he was being an edgelord and the law made a mountain out of a molehill. it could have been a complete non-issue if not for the kneejerk

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:11 pm
by Byzconia
Torrocca wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:This is now a minimalist thread.


This is now a moderatist thread. Any straying from the medium will be met with neutral squabbling.

"Never trust a Neutral, Kif." - Zapp Branigan. Those words have stuck with me always.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:11 pm
by LiberNovusAmericae
Byzconia wrote:His intent is completely irrelevant. We can't prove what he "intended," we can only prove what he did (not that I particularly give a shit what his intent was anyway).

He said that his intent was to turn the dog evil to prank his Girlfriend. His intent was obvious, unless you actually believe that anyone who dares make a joke should be subjected to the boot of the law.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:11 pm
by Torrocca
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
This is now a moderatist thread. Any straying from the medium will be met with neutral squabbling.

Damn right.


"Right"? YOU STRAY FROM THE MEDIAN. INCONSEQUENTIAL SHAME IS YOURS FOR HALF OF YOUR LIFE NOW.

Byzconia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
This is now a moderatist thread. Any straying from the medium will be met with neutral squabbling.

"Never trust a Neutral, Kif." - Zapp Branigan. Those words have stuck with me always.


Zapp Brannigan is a hero, I tell you what.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:12 pm
by Byzconia
Greater Westralia wrote:
Byzconia wrote:His intent is completely irrelevant. We can't prove what he "intended," we can only prove what he did (not that I particularly give a shit what his intent was anyway).

What he did was teach his dog to do a Hitler salute. It was a complete and utter non-issue.

"It didn't personally affect me, therefore it doesn't matter."

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:12 pm
by Torrocca
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Welcome to the YPGvolution, comrade. Your anti-ISIS results may vary, but only very goodly of course. :3

I'm glad to be on the first page, sir ma'am.


Fixed that for you :3