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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 681
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Libertarian Police State

Postby First American Empire » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:27 pm

Arduo wrote:
First American Empire wrote:You know who else was a centrist? Thanos.

"Perfectly balanced, as all things should be." - Thanos da Supa-Centrist

Wise words from a wise man.


TBH, the best thing about Infinity War is that we now have someone to hyperbolically compare centrists to.
The American Empire is a socially progressive and strongly anti-nationalist absolute monarchy ruled by the heirs of Emperor Norton.

Formerly Second Empire of America.

User avatar
Byzconia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 632
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:27 pm

Crysuko wrote:
Byzconia wrote:I would argue against this. I have plenty of right-leaning friends who aren't racist pieces of shit.

in my experience, right and racist are mutually inclusive. I can't speak for everyone though.

Anglo-Saxon conservatism does tend to have a large degree of implicit racism in it, but it's important to distinguish between actual racists and people who are simply uninformed about the racist connotations of certain arguments/ideas.

Uiiop wrote:
Byzconia wrote:"Making light of the mass murder of millions of innocent people affects no one."

This cuts both ways mind.
Just like "It was a just a joke" doesn't make a statement inherently harmless. ""Making light of the mass murder of millions of innocent people" doesn't make a statement harmful by itself.
It's not like a joke can't be aimed at how fucked up the murders are or how good the screams must have sounded. Or in this case it seems "Ohh i made him do a baad thing."

Yes, it absolutely fucking does.
For: Liberal socialism, Left-libertarianism, Progressivism, Atheism, Equality, Materialism, Absurdism, Individualism, Palestinians, Kurds

Neutral: EU, Existentialism, Nihilism, non-ML Communism

Against: Neoliberalism, Conservatism, Social Darwinism (Right-"libertarianism," Fascism, Nazism), Monarchism, Marxism-Leninism (and its spin-offs), Nationalism, Imperialism, Racism, Sexism, Xenophobia, Religion, Theism, Idealism, Optimism, Egoism, Incels


Private prisons are modern Gulags. (Forced labor isn't good just because it's not the government doing the forcing.)

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:27 pm

Byzconia wrote:

Rather hilarious coming from the guy who calls himself a National Syndicalist (the ideological predecessors of Fascism who explicitly called for a crackdown on all forms of individualism and freedom).

I gotta say I've pretty much gotten numb to being called a fascist and a Nazi. Doesn't really even phase me anymore.

It's almost like when someone has a really weird name and people constantly mispronounce it. You just stop caring and tune out the noise.
Last edited by Yusseria on Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31635
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:28 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:The question is, can Centrists meme?

Some say they can, some say they can't, really it depends on the person.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5249
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:28 pm

Greater Westralia wrote:
Byzconia wrote:At this point in time, the salute is almost exclusively associated with the Nazis. Nice try, though.

Because they're totally comparable.

I knew you would raise to the bait. Mind showing how a doggo saluting is the same as making fun of genocide?

You can't just drop a fallacy and walk off, that leans incredibly close to the fallacy fallacy. How are they not comparable? Both are pieces of humour which make fun of Nazism and all its trappings, if the intent of Count Dankula and British propagandists are to believed. I don't particularly see how a little dog doing the nazi salute glorifies Nazism. It's not exactly "peak aesthetics".

oh, so we can have all the trappings of nazism but it's k because wE'rE bEiNg tOtAlLy iRoNiC
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 56639
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:28 pm

Crysuko wrote:
Yusseria wrote:"The right can't meme" they say as they regurgitate memes created by rightists.

nobody said that

anywhere

ever.

But also, the right seriously can't meme.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8963
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:29 pm

New haven america wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:The question is, can Centrists meme?

Some say they can, some say they can't, really it depends on the person.

You could say there are two sides to that issue.
"If there is no friendship with them [the poor] and no sharing of the life of the poor, then there is no authentic commitment to liberation, because love exists only among equals."
- Gustavo Gutiérrez
Filipino|Catholic Liberationist|Leftist|He/Him|Bisexual|Trans Rights
North and East Syria|Taiwan|Hong Kong|Autonomous Cordillera|Zapatistas|Assyria


User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 56639
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:29 pm

New haven america wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:The question is, can Centrists meme?

Some say they can, some say they can't, really it depends on the person.

I'm gonna go with "nope". Not if, by centrists, we mean establishment Democrats trying to make Beto or Kamala look cool.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Eternal Lotharia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9181
Founded: Dec 27, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Eternal Lotharia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:29 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
New haven america wrote:Some say they can, some say they can't, really it depends on the person.

You could say there are two sides to that issue.

A West and East side you could say.
My RP.
Keyboard being a pain. Will take longer to do stuff until further notice.
This flag does not represent my nation being evil or nazi, fascist, etc., it's not. I'm also not any of those.
This nation's Policies partially represent my views, partially are experimental, same thing with how my nation is in RP.
Left-Wing Christian Pro-Life Pragmatic Populist. Oregonian.
Candidate for City Council of a large city.
A little too obsessed with food.

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:30 pm

Liriena wrote:
Crysuko wrote:nobody said that

anywhere

ever.

But also, the right seriously can't meme.

If I was more petty I'd start keeping track of each time you regurgitate a right-wing meme.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Senator
 
Posts: 4611
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:30 pm

Byzconia wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I'm sorry I have the radical idea that free speech should apply to asswipes who make stupid jokes.

I'm sorry I have the radical idea that mass murder isn't fucking funny. Although I don't know what else I should expect from the guy who literally said, "Pinochet did nothing wrong!" :roll:

Let us abolish all jokes. The Far-Left has decreed it!

User avatar
Byzconia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 632
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Yusseria wrote:
Byzconia wrote:Rather hilarious coming from the guy who calls himself a National Syndicalist (the ideological predecessors of Fascism who explicitly called for a crackdown on all forms of individualism and freedom).

I gotta say I've pretty much gotten numb to being called a fascist and a Nazi. Doesn't really even phase me anymore.

It's almost like when someone has a really weird name and people constantly mispronounce. You just stop caring and tune out the noise.

Right-wingers: "Facts don't care about your feelings!"

Also Right-wingers: "You know, I feel really insulted by you pointing out those facts about my self-professed ideology."

Literally zero of what you said is relevant. National Syndicalism is the ideological precursor of Fascism, the fact you don't like that doesn't make it not true.
For: Liberal socialism, Left-libertarianism, Progressivism, Atheism, Equality, Materialism, Absurdism, Individualism, Palestinians, Kurds

Neutral: EU, Existentialism, Nihilism, non-ML Communism

Against: Neoliberalism, Conservatism, Social Darwinism (Right-"libertarianism," Fascism, Nazism), Monarchism, Marxism-Leninism (and its spin-offs), Nationalism, Imperialism, Racism, Sexism, Xenophobia, Religion, Theism, Idealism, Optimism, Egoism, Incels


Private prisons are modern Gulags. (Forced labor isn't good just because it's not the government doing the forcing.)

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Senator
 
Posts: 4611
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:
Crysuko wrote:I'm sorry that I have the radical idea that rightists should be silenced, joking or otherwise


If anything, it would probably be better to silence the far-left, Nazis included. :^) But in all seriousness, I do thing it would be a good idea to bring back laws against blasphemy and lèse majesté.

I say: If a monarch is triggered by what I say, then he or she should screw off.

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Liriena wrote:
New haven america wrote:Some say they can, some say they can't, really it depends on the person.

I'm gonna go with "nope". Not if, by centrists, we mean establishment Democrats trying to make Beto or Kamala look cool.

It's always funny to remember that Beto is an Irishman by the name of Robert Francis O'Rourke who only calls himself Beto to appeal to Hispanics.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 56639
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:31 pm

First American Empire wrote:
Arduo wrote:"Perfectly balanced, as all things should be." - Thanos da Supa-Centrist

Wise words from a wise man.


TBH, the best thing about Infinity War is that we now have someone to hyperbolically compare centrists to.

Some people want to do omnicide. Some people say omnicide is bad thing. One should avoid extremes at all times, because horseshoe theory, so how about we compromise and only do half an omnicide?
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Eternal Lotharia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9181
Founded: Dec 27, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Eternal Lotharia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Liriena wrote:
New haven america wrote:Some say they can, some say they can't, really it depends on the person.

I'm gonna go with "nope". Not if, by centrists, we mean establishment Democrats trying to make Beto or Kamala look cool.



Harris<Delaney

Warren>Delaney

Gillibrand=Harris

Delaney>Gillibrand

Just so we're all clear on my stances, used the generic candidate(Delaney) to explain my stances.
My RP.
Keyboard being a pain. Will take longer to do stuff until further notice.
This flag does not represent my nation being evil or nazi, fascist, etc., it's not. I'm also not any of those.
This nation's Policies partially represent my views, partially are experimental, same thing with how my nation is in RP.
Left-Wing Christian Pro-Life Pragmatic Populist. Oregonian.
Candidate for City Council of a large city.
A little too obsessed with food.

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5249
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:31 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Byzconia wrote:I'm sorry I have the radical idea that mass murder isn't fucking funny. Although I don't know what else I should expect from the guy who literally said, "Pinochet did nothing wrong!" :roll:

Let us abolish all jokes. The Far-Left has decreed it!

Image
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Byzconia wrote:
Yusseria wrote:I gotta say I've pretty much gotten numb to being called a fascist and a Nazi. Doesn't really even phase me anymore.

It's almost like when someone has a really weird name and people constantly mispronounce. You just stop caring and tune out the noise.

Right-wingers: "Facts don't care about your feelings!"

Also Right-wingers: "You know, I feel really insulted by you pointing out those facts about my self-professed ideology."

Literally zero of what you said is relevant. National Syndicalism is the ideological precursor of Fascism, the fact you don't like that doesn't make it not true.

I don't really care dude lmao. I don't take it to the lengths of fascism.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7417
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:32 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:He broke the law and he got punished for what he did. Why is this such a big deal anyway?

The big deal is that it's a horrible law, and Dankula did nothing that ought to be illegal.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Uiiop
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5047
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Uiiop » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:32 pm

Greater Westralia wrote:
Byzconia wrote:At this point in time, the salute is almost exclusively associated with the Nazis. Nice try, though.

Because they're totally comparable.

I knew you would raise to the bait. Mind showing how a doggo saluting is the same as making fun of genocide?

You can't just drop a fallacy and walk off, that leans incredibly close to the fallacy fallacy. How are they not comparable? Both are pieces of humour which make fun of Nazism and all its trappings, if the intent of Count Dankula and British propagandists are to believed. I don't particularly see how a little dog doing the nazi salute glorifies Nazism. It's not exactly "peak aesthetics".

Making a joke involving Nazism doesn't inherently mean it makes nazism the butt of a joke.
"I made a dog do a bad thing. Umad." regradless of his right to make it doesn't quite the same punch as "Nazism will come back again under a wimpy flimsy disguise." Does it?

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7417
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:32 pm

Crysuko wrote:
Greater Westralia wrote:I knew you would raise to the bait. Mind showing how a doggo saluting is the same as making fun of genocide?

You can't just drop a fallacy and walk off, that leans incredibly close to the fallacy fallacy. How are they not comparable? Both are pieces of humour which make fun of Nazism and all its trappings, if the intent of Count Dankula and British propagandists are to believed. I don't particularly see how a little dog doing the nazi salute glorifies Nazism. It's not exactly "peak aesthetics".

oh, so we can have all the trappings of nazism but it's k because wE'rE bEiNg tOtAlLy iRoNiC

What trappings of Nazism?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 56639
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:33 pm

Yusseria wrote:

If I was more petty I'd start keeping track of each time you regurgitate a right-wing meme.

By "regurgitate" you mean when I point out that right-wing "memes" like the NPC thing are huge self-owns that prove the exact opposite point they were created to make?
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15283
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:33 pm

I wouldn't consider teaching your dog how to nazi salute be anything horrible, but it's a little messed up tho. Also, the dude's intention was just to tease his girlfriend iirc, not cause a whole ruckus.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

User avatar
Byzconia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 632
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:33 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Byzconia wrote:I'm sorry I have the radical idea that mass murder isn't fucking funny. Although I don't know what else I should expect from the guy who literally said, "Pinochet did nothing wrong!" :roll:

Let us abolish all jokes. The Far-Left has decreed it!

Why, hello, Mr. Strawman, fancy seeing you here! (Also, under no definition of the phrase does a liberal socialist qualify as "far-left.")
For: Liberal socialism, Left-libertarianism, Progressivism, Atheism, Equality, Materialism, Absurdism, Individualism, Palestinians, Kurds

Neutral: EU, Existentialism, Nihilism, non-ML Communism

Against: Neoliberalism, Conservatism, Social Darwinism (Right-"libertarianism," Fascism, Nazism), Monarchism, Marxism-Leninism (and its spin-offs), Nationalism, Imperialism, Racism, Sexism, Xenophobia, Religion, Theism, Idealism, Optimism, Egoism, Incels


Private prisons are modern Gulags. (Forced labor isn't good just because it's not the government doing the forcing.)

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:34 pm

Liriena wrote:
Yusseria wrote:If I was more petty I'd start keeping track of each time you regurgitate a right-wing meme.

By "regurgitate" you mean when I point out that right-wing "memes" like the NPC thing are huge self-owns that prove the exact opposite point they were created to make?

When you try and use our own memes against us, yes. Honestly, you just end up proving how funny they are, tbh.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

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