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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

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Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:27 pm

Byzconia wrote:

Rather hilarious coming from the guy who calls himself a National Syndicalist (the ideological predecessors of Fascism who explicitly called for a crackdown on all forms of individualism and freedom).

I gotta say I've pretty much gotten numb to being called a fascist and a Nazi. Doesn't really even phase me anymore.

It's almost like when someone has a really weird name and people constantly mispronounce it. You just stop caring and tune out the noise.
Last edited by Yusseria on Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

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New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37416
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:28 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:The question is, can Centrists meme?

Some say they can, some say they can't, really it depends on the person.
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Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6362
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:28 pm

Greater Westralia wrote:
Byzconia wrote:At this point in time, the salute is almost exclusively associated with the Nazis. Nice try, though.

Because they're totally comparable.

I knew you would raise to the bait. Mind showing how a doggo saluting is the same as making fun of genocide?

You can't just drop a fallacy and walk off, that leans incredibly close to the fallacy fallacy. How are they not comparable? Both are pieces of humour which make fun of Nazism and all its trappings, if the intent of Count Dankula and British propagandists are to believed. I don't particularly see how a little dog doing the nazi salute glorifies Nazism. It's not exactly "peak aesthetics".

oh, so we can have all the trappings of nazism but it's k because wE'rE bEiNg tOtAlLy iRoNiC
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Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60834
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liriena » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:28 pm

Crysuko wrote:
Yusseria wrote:"The right can't meme" they say as they regurgitate memes created by rightists.

nobody said that

anywhere

ever.

But also, the right seriously can't meme.
be gay do crime


I am:
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An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
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Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9979
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:29 pm

New haven america wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:The question is, can Centrists meme?

Some say they can, some say they can't, really it depends on the person.

You could say there are two sides to that issue.

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60834
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liriena » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:29 pm

New haven america wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:The question is, can Centrists meme?

Some say they can, some say they can't, really it depends on the person.

I'm gonna go with "nope". Not if, by centrists, we mean establishment Democrats trying to make Beto or Kamala look cool.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:30 pm

Liriena wrote:
Crysuko wrote:nobody said that

anywhere

ever.

But also, the right seriously can't meme.

If I was more petty I'd start keeping track of each time you regurgitate a right-wing meme.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

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LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6945
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:30 pm

Byzconia wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I'm sorry I have the radical idea that free speech should apply to asswipes who make stupid jokes.

I'm sorry I have the radical idea that mass murder isn't fucking funny. Although I don't know what else I should expect from the guy who literally said, "Pinochet did nothing wrong!" :roll:

Let us abolish all jokes. The Far-Left has decreed it!
China Lied, People Died.
Anti-imperialism is really code for anti-west.
Not to be confused with Novus America! We are NOT the same player.

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Byzconia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1123
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Yusseria wrote:
Byzconia wrote:Rather hilarious coming from the guy who calls himself a National Syndicalist (the ideological predecessors of Fascism who explicitly called for a crackdown on all forms of individualism and freedom).

I gotta say I've pretty much gotten numb to being called a fascist and a Nazi. Doesn't really even phase me anymore.

It's almost like when someone has a really weird name and people constantly mispronounce. You just stop caring and tune out the noise.

Right-wingers: "Facts don't care about your feelings!"

Also Right-wingers: "You know, I feel really insulted by you pointing out those facts about my self-professed ideology."

Literally zero of what you said is relevant. National Syndicalism is the ideological precursor of Fascism, the fact you don't like that doesn't make it not true.
Populist social democrat. Share Our Wealth! Every man a king!

"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read: 'All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy." - Abraham Lincoln

9Axes

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LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6945
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:
Crysuko wrote:I'm sorry that I have the radical idea that rightists should be silenced, joking or otherwise


If anything, it would probably be better to silence the far-left, Nazis included. :^) But in all seriousness, I do thing it would be a good idea to bring back laws against blasphemy and lèse majesté.

I say: If a monarch is triggered by what I say, then he or she should screw off.
China Lied, People Died.
Anti-imperialism is really code for anti-west.
Not to be confused with Novus America! We are NOT the same player.

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Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Liriena wrote:
New haven america wrote:Some say they can, some say they can't, really it depends on the person.

I'm gonna go with "nope". Not if, by centrists, we mean establishment Democrats trying to make Beto or Kamala look cool.

It's always funny to remember that Beto is an Irishman by the name of Robert Francis O'Rourke who only calls himself Beto to appeal to Hispanics.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60834
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liriena » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:31 pm

First American Empire wrote:
Arduo wrote:"Perfectly balanced, as all things should be." - Thanos da Supa-Centrist

Wise words from a wise man.


TBH, the best thing about Infinity War is that we now have someone to hyperbolically compare centrists to.

Some people want to do omnicide. Some people say omnicide is bad thing. One should avoid extremes at all times, because horseshoe theory, so how about we compromise and only do half an omnicide?
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6362
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:31 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Byzconia wrote:I'm sorry I have the radical idea that mass murder isn't fucking funny. Although I don't know what else I should expect from the guy who literally said, "Pinochet did nothing wrong!" :roll:

Let us abolish all jokes. The Far-Left has decreed it!

Image
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

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Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Byzconia wrote:
Yusseria wrote:I gotta say I've pretty much gotten numb to being called a fascist and a Nazi. Doesn't really even phase me anymore.

It's almost like when someone has a really weird name and people constantly mispronounce. You just stop caring and tune out the noise.

Right-wingers: "Facts don't care about your feelings!"

Also Right-wingers: "You know, I feel really insulted by you pointing out those facts about my self-professed ideology."

Literally zero of what you said is relevant. National Syndicalism is the ideological precursor of Fascism, the fact you don't like that doesn't make it not true.

I don't really care dude lmao. I don't take it to the lengths of fascism.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8228
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:32 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:He broke the law and he got punished for what he did. Why is this such a big deal anyway?

The big deal is that it's a horrible law, and Dankula did nothing that ought to be illegal.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm a 19 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

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Uiiop
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5804
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Uiiop » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:32 pm

Greater Westralia wrote:
Byzconia wrote:At this point in time, the salute is almost exclusively associated with the Nazis. Nice try, though.

Because they're totally comparable.

I knew you would raise to the bait. Mind showing how a doggo saluting is the same as making fun of genocide?

You can't just drop a fallacy and walk off, that leans incredibly close to the fallacy fallacy. How are they not comparable? Both are pieces of humour which make fun of Nazism and all its trappings, if the intent of Count Dankula and British propagandists are to believed. I don't particularly see how a little dog doing the nazi salute glorifies Nazism. It's not exactly "peak aesthetics".

Making a joke involving Nazism doesn't inherently mean it makes nazism the butt of a joke.
"I made a dog do a bad thing. Umad." regradless of his right to make it doesn't quite the same punch as "Nazism will come back again under a wimpy flimsy disguise." Does it?

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8228
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:32 pm

Crysuko wrote:
Greater Westralia wrote:I knew you would raise to the bait. Mind showing how a doggo saluting is the same as making fun of genocide?

You can't just drop a fallacy and walk off, that leans incredibly close to the fallacy fallacy. How are they not comparable? Both are pieces of humour which make fun of Nazism and all its trappings, if the intent of Count Dankula and British propagandists are to believed. I don't particularly see how a little dog doing the nazi salute glorifies Nazism. It's not exactly "peak aesthetics".

oh, so we can have all the trappings of nazism but it's k because wE'rE bEiNg tOtAlLy iRoNiC

What trappings of Nazism?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm a 19 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60834
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liriena » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:33 pm

Yusseria wrote:

If I was more petty I'd start keeping track of each time you regurgitate a right-wing meme.

By "regurgitate" you mean when I point out that right-wing "memes" like the NPC thing are huge self-owns that prove the exact opposite point they were created to make?
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15283
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:33 pm

I wouldn't consider teaching your dog how to nazi salute be anything horrible, but it's a little messed up tho. Also, the dude's intention was just to tease his girlfriend iirc, not cause a whole ruckus.
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Byzconia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1123
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
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Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:33 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Byzconia wrote:I'm sorry I have the radical idea that mass murder isn't fucking funny. Although I don't know what else I should expect from the guy who literally said, "Pinochet did nothing wrong!" :roll:

Let us abolish all jokes. The Far-Left has decreed it!

Why, hello, Mr. Strawman, fancy seeing you here! (Also, under no definition of the phrase does a liberal socialist qualify as "far-left.")
Populist social democrat. Share Our Wealth! Every man a king!

"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read: 'All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy." - Abraham Lincoln

9Axes

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:34 pm

Liriena wrote:
Yusseria wrote:If I was more petty I'd start keeping track of each time you regurgitate a right-wing meme.

By "regurgitate" you mean when I point out that right-wing "memes" like the NPC thing are huge self-owns that prove the exact opposite point they were created to make?

When you try and use our own memes against us, yes. Honestly, you just end up proving how funny they are, tbh.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 809
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby First American Empire » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:34 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Liriena wrote:
The only good first post ever.

Anyway, circling back to "brocialist", because I have nothing better to do right now and I feel like being a ponderous oaf, I almost felt like equating the term with "TERF" in terms of how accurate its definition as a "slur" is... but then it came to me that that's not fair.

I'd say "brocialist" is kinda stuck in the grey area between "overused slur sometimes hurled in one form of other at anyone to the left of Clinton in bad faith" and "useful shorthand for identifying an actual problem in many left-wing circles". I don't think it's unfair to say that some left-wing circles do suffer from having a very... umm... monolithic demographic and, thus, a very limited perspective on social and cultural that feeds on economic reductionism, which in turns justifies that limited perspective. No joke, I actually got a couple not-at-all-mad DMs from one on Reddit a couple days back, and in true brocialist fashion, they combined their whining about "idpol" with ableist slurs and tinges of homophobia.

I twitch whenever I hear 'brocialist' because it gives me flashbacks to the Dem primary in 2015/16.

We were literally supporting the more radical candidate in regards to undertaking action regarding race and gender.

[screaming externally]


I supported Sanders in 2016 too, but there were definitely some awful people who also happened to support him. They didn't make up a majority of Sanders supporters, and Sanders himself wasn't one of them, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a problem.

(I'm probably going to vote for Warren in 2020 though.)
The American Empire is a socially progressive and strongly anti-nationalist absolute monarchy ruled by the heirs of Emperor Norton.

This nation doesn't reflect my political views on many issues, especially monarchism and foreign policy. I'm an ordinary social democrat in real life.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60834
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liriena » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:34 pm

Liriena wrote:
Yusseria wrote:If I was more petty I'd start keeping track of each time you regurgitate a right-wing meme.

By "regurgitate" you mean when I point out that right-wing "memes" like the NPC thing are huge self-owns that prove the exact opposite point they were created to make?

"The left are all like pre-programmed video game characters who collectively say the same thing over and over and have no independent thought... and to prove it, we're going to collectively adopt and repeat this three-letter insult over and over"
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8228
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:34 pm

Byzconia wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Let us abolish all jokes. The Far-Left has decreed it!

Why, hello, Mr. Strawman, fancy seeing you here! (Also, under no definition of the phrase does a liberal socialist qualify as "far-left.")

If you think Dankula ought to be charged with anything, you're not far-left, you're far-gone.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm a 19 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6362
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:35 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I wouldn't consider teaching your dog how to nazi salute be anything horrible, but it's a little messed up tho. Also, the dude's intention was just to tease his girlfriend iirc, not cause a whole ruckus.

then why put it up on youtube, he was stirring shit and got upset when it blew up in his face.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

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