LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[Nova Cyberia]

Even then, that doesn't prevent under-the-table deals and the like from occurring, and it still doesn't address the issue of a select few people getting rich (even at a capped wealth level) from exploiting the work of others.

Sure nothing is perfect but the same argument could be made for any system.

You should look into more leftist ideas and works, and read the Bread Book. :3

I did back when I was an edgy anarchist in high school. Not a fan of it nowadays tbh, and any new recommendations would have to wait cuz I'm still on my huge binge of guerrilla and assymetric warfare reading.

And, again, none of this accounts for new job creation.

Because there's not going to be nearly enough new job creation.

Unless you have an Oracle you cannot accurately predict that.

[Torrocca]

Even then, that doesn't prevent under-the-table deals and the like from occurring, and it still doesn't address the issue of a select few people getting rich (even at a capped wealth level) from exploiting the work of others.

Sure nothing is perfect but the same argument could be made for any system.

I mean, that's true but the continued exploitation of the working class is a pretty big fucking issue.

You should look into more leftist ideas and works, and read the Bread Book. :3

I did back when I was an edgy anarchist in high school. Not a fan of it nowadays tbh, and any new recommendations would have to wait cuz I'm still on my huge binge of guerrilla and assymetric warfare reading.

Regardless, I wholly recommend rereading the Bread Book and also Kropotkin's other book, Mutual Aid. :3

[Kowani]

Sure nothing is perfect but the same argument could be made for any system.



I did back when I was an edgy anarchist in high school. Not a fan of it nowadays tbh, and any new recommendations would have to wait cuz I'm still on my huge binge of guerrilla and assymetric warfare reading.



Because there's not going to be nearly enough new job creation.

Unless you have an Oracle you cannot accurately predict that.

If current trends continue, we can.

[Nova Cyberia]

Unless you have an Oracle you cannot accurately predict that.

If current trends continue, we can.

This is the current trend.

[Cappuccina]

Nor would your system do either, tbh.

Well. My idealized system is a postcapitalist, postnational one, in which things are done by automation and the basic concept of currency is no more. The concerns here are not quite the same.
However my pragmatic one is a European Social Democracy which would allow for all to progress.

That's quite utopian, automation will do nothing but do the opposite of what you think it will. If you think the common man is enslaved now, just wait til you take away the value of the one power that all men are born with, their labor. The level of automation is currently near its practical limit, beyond that it'll become an issue.

[Cekoviu]

Well. My idealized system is a postcapitalist, postnational one, in which things are done by automation and the basic concept of currency is no more. The concerns here are not quite the same.
However my pragmatic one is a European Social Democracy which would allow for all to progress.

That's quite utopian, automation will do nothing but do the opposite of what you think it will. If you think the common man is enslaved now, just wait til you take away the value of the one power that all men are born with, their labor. The level of automation is currently near its practical limit, beyond that it'll become an issue.

Labor is repurposed with automation. The consumption of blue-collar jobs by robots is counteracted by the need for people to maintain those robots.

[Cappuccina]

That's quite utopian, automation will do nothing but do the opposite of what you think it will. If you think the common man is enslaved now, just wait til you take away the value of the one power that all men are born with, their labor. The level of automation is currently near its practical limit, beyond that it'll become an issue.

Labor is repurposed with automation. The consumption of blue-collar jobs by robots is counteracted by the need for people to maintain those robots.

Sure, some new careers will come from needing to maintain the robots, I doubt it'd be enough to counteract the loss of those taken over by them. Who says the robots won't eventually fix themselves, or eachother? Then what?

[Nova Cyberia]

Labor is repurposed with automation. The consumption of blue-collar jobs by robots is counteracted by the need for people to maintain those robots.

Sure, some new careers will come from needing to maintain the robots, I doubt it'd be enough to counteract the loss of those taken over by them. Who says the robots won't eventually fix themselves, or eachother? Then what?

Then we've achieved peak Skynet and it would be time for us to reevaluate our views on automation.

[Cekoviu]

Labor is repurposed with automation. The consumption of blue-collar jobs by robots is counteracted by the need for people to maintain those robots.

Sure, some new careers will come from needing to maintain the robots, I doubt it'd be enough to counteract the loss of those taken over by them. Who says the robots won't eventually fix themselves, or eachother? Then what?

That would be a warranted concern except that machine learning algorithms are expensive and difficult to implement, so they're not used in robots that simply need to perform menial inspections and whatnot.

[Kowani]

Labor is repurposed with automation. The consumption of blue-collar jobs by robots is counteracted by the need for people to maintain those robots.

Sure, some new careers will come from needing to maintain the robots, I doubt it'd be enough to counteract the loss of those taken over by them. Who says the robots won't eventually fix themselves, or eachother? Then what?

Then people no longer have to work.

[Ostroeuropa]

That's quite utopian, automation will do nothing but do the opposite of what you think it will. If you think the common man is enslaved now, just wait til you take away the value of the one power that all men are born with, their labor. The level of automation is currently near its practical limit, beyond that it'll become an issue.

Labor is repurposed with automation. The consumption of blue-collar jobs by robots is counteracted by the need for people to maintain those robots.

This is not how automation works. The entire point is to hire less people.

[Joohan]

Sure, some new careers will come from needing to maintain the robots, I doubt it'd be enough to counteract the loss of those taken over by them. Who says the robots won't eventually fix themselves, or eachother? Then what?

Then people no longer have to work.

No labor = no power

People will have become cattle.

[Grenartia]

Then people no longer have to work.

No labor = no power

People will have become cattle.

Doubtful.

[Loben The 2nd]

Sure, some new careers will come from needing to maintain the robots, I doubt it'd be enough to counteract the loss of those taken over by them. Who says the robots won't eventually fix themselves, or eachother? Then what?

Then people no longer have to work.

Hope you enjoy a good riot.

[Grenartia]

Then people no longer have to work.

Hope you enjoy a good riot.

Why would people riot over no longer needing to slowly kill themselves by toiling to earn money to continue living?

[Loben The 2nd]

Hope you enjoy a good riot.

Why would people riot over no longer needing to slowly kill themselves by toiling to earn money to continue living?

No work, no income, bills to pay, mouths to feed, maybe wanting to do something other then whatever the hell you think they’re gonna do with their lives?

[Kowani]

Why would people riot over no longer needing to slowly kill themselves by toiling to earn money to continue living?

No work, no income, bills to pay, mouths to feed, maybe wanting to do something other then whatever the hell you think they’re gonna do with their lives?

If everything is automated, the entire economic system is going to diametrically shift. The current concerns don’t really apply.

[Grenartia]

Why would people riot over no longer needing to slowly kill themselves by toiling to earn money to continue living?

No work, no income, bills to pay, mouths to feed, maybe wanting to do something other then whatever the hell you think they’re gonna do with their lives?

If there's no bills to pay and mouths are still getting fed, why are work and income necessary?

And as for that last one, they can do whatever the fuck they want. They're free to do anything that doesn't harm others (apparently, I have to specify this, because I know some smart alec would otherwise say "well what about rape and murder?").

Say Bob previously worked as a lawn mower, and actually enjoyed doing it. He's now free to use his skills to make his former career into an art form.

Say Alice previously worked as a grocery cashier, and fucking hated every moment of it. She's now free to use her free time to do whatever she wants, like tinkering in her garage.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

I think it's naive to think that automation will change the system. Personally, I think jobs will continue becoming White Collar. Imagine a mix of the working and middle classes.

The only way the system will change is if we change it.

[Pasong Tirad]

I think it's naive to think that automation will change the system. Personally, I think jobs will continue becoming White Collar. Imagine a mix of the working and middle classes.

The only way the system will change is if we change it.

Hell yeah now you're talking, let me get my milkshake.

[Nova Cyberia]

No work, no income, bills to pay, mouths to feed, maybe wanting to do something other then whatever the hell you think they’re gonna do with their lives?

If there's no bills to pay and mouths are still getting fed, why are work and income necessary?

And as for that last one, they can do whatever the fuck they want. They're free to do anything that doesn't harm others (apparently, I have to specify this, because I know some smart alec would otherwise say "well what about rape and murder?").

Say Bob previously worked as a lawn mower, and actually enjoyed doing it. He's now free to use his skills to make his former career into an art form.

Say Alice previously worked as a grocery cashier, and fucking hated every moment of it. She's now free to use her free time to do whatever she wants, like tinkering in her garage.

Ah, yes, the old "everyone is actually a secret Mozart or Picasso but are incapable of realizing their true potential because they're forced to work under the evil capitalist regime" tripe.

[Kowani]

I think it's naive to think that automation will change the system. Personally, I think jobs will continue becoming White Collar. Imagine a mix of the working and middle classes.

The only way the system will change is if we change it.

Eh. Robots can do many White Collar jobs as well, as over time, as AI improves, those that cannot be done by them will decrease.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Well. My idealized system is a postcapitalist, postnational one, in which things are done by automation and the basic concept of currency is no more. The concerns here are not quite the same.

That sounds like the Venus Project or the Zeitgeist Movement (a resource based economy).

[Nakena]

I think it's naive to think that automation will change the system. Personally, I think jobs will continue becoming White Collar. Imagine a mix of the working and middle classes.

The only way the system will change is if we change it.

I wouldn rule it entirely out in the long run.

Technological revolutions also resulted in revolutions to human society and economy to varying degrees.

[Pasong Tirad]

If there's no bills to pay and mouths are still getting fed, why are work and income necessary?

And as for that last one, they can do whatever the fuck they want. They're free to do anything that doesn't harm others (apparently, I have to specify this, because I know some smart alec would otherwise say "well what about rape and murder?").

Say Bob previously worked as a lawn mower, and actually enjoyed doing it. He's now free to use his skills to make his former career into an art form.

Say Alice previously worked as a grocery cashier, and fucking hated every moment of it. She's now free to use her free time to do whatever she wants, like tinkering in her garage.

Ah, yes, the old "everyone is actually a secret Mozart or Picasso but are incapable of realizing their true potential because they're forced to work under the evil capitalist regime" tripe.

idk man i'd love to work in the performing arts full time if i wasn't worried about how it's so skewed towards a small handful of celebrities that the rest of the people working in the arts industry aren't paid enough to be able to survive on a day-to-day basis