LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[Nova Cyberia]

I don't know.

But that's the thing, you can't always predict new job creation.

Many people during the Industrial Revolution thought machines were going to steal their jobs. They didn't realize that the machines just created new jobs that needed to be filled.

Except the Technological Revolution is of a fundamentally different nature than anything that preceded it. Unlike before, this one does not just do the work, it makes those that do the work. The new jobs created, whatever they may be, if they can be done by humans, they can be done by machines.

There could be certain jobs that are better filled by humans than machines.

Also, governments could place restrictions on automation since having like 60% of your population be unemployed is not particularly desirable.

[Kowani]

Well. My idealized system is a postcapitalist, postnational one, in which things are done by automation and the basic concept of currency is no more.

As realistic as Keith Moon just walking into my room right now and doing a drum solo there.

As of now, yes.
But. Give it time.

[Kowani]

Except the Technological Revolution is of a fundamentally different nature than anything that preceded it. Unlike before, this one does not just do the work, it makes those that do the work. The new jobs created, whatever they may be, if they can be done by humans, they can be done by machines.

There could be certain jobs that are better filled by humans than machines.

Such as?

Also, governments could place restrictions on automation since having like 60% of your population be unemployed is not particularly desirable.

Yes. They could. Would it work? No.
Additionally, that logic of unemployment only makes sense from a capitalist framework, which this is decidedly not.

[Nova Cyberia]

As realistic as Keith Moon just walking into my room right now and doing a drum solo there.

As of now, yes.
But. Give it time.

Oh, come on. The go-to commie answer right here.

"When will communism happen?"

"I don't know... but some day!"

[Torrocca]

My boi, you're this close to greatness. Eat the rich with the rest of us; all belongs to all of us. ;~;

Girl, you’re an anarchist. I’m neither of the two, but even I know socialism and anarchism aren’t the same thing.

You can still eat the rich with stock-standard Socialism, friendo. It's just not as fun. :^3

[Nova Cyberia]

There could be certain jobs that are better filled by humans than machines.

Such as?

This.

Yes. They could. Would it work? No.

Why?

Additionally, that logic of unemployment only makes sense from a capitalist framework, which this is decidedly not.

Uh, I'm pretty sure it also makes sense from a socialist standpoint to, depending on the type of socialist.

[Kowani]

As of now, yes.
But. Give it time.

Oh, come on. The go-to commie answer right here.

"When will communism happen?"

"I don't know... but some day!"

Ignoring the fact that I’m not communist for a second, time is the greatest weapon for my system. Lacking a radical worldshift, this will happen. It’s merely following the rhythms that capitalism has already established.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Oh make no mistake I'm not a socialist

My boi, you're this close to greatness. Eat the rich with the rest of us; all belongs to all of us. ;~;

I like the state tho

[Hanafuridake]

My boi, you're this close to greatness. Eat the rich with the rest of us; all belongs to all of us. ;~;

I like the state tho

^ Having a state is pretty nice. I believe really strongly in national institutions so I'm not going to become an anarchist.

[Nova Cyberia]

Oh, come on. The go-to commie answer right here.

"When will communism happen?"

"I don't know... but some day!"

Ignoring the fact that I’m not communist for a second, time is the greatest weapon for my system. Lacking a radical worldshift, this will happen. It’s merely following the rhythms that capitalism has already established.

No, it won't.

[Torrocca]

My boi, you're this close to greatness. Eat the rich with the rest of us; all belongs to all of us. ;~;

I like the state tho

... You do realize you could still have a state (of whatever flavor of state you happen to like) and have the people socially own the means of production, yes?

I may be the most fervent anarkitty on this site but even I know that.

[Nova Cyberia]

My boi, you're this close to greatness. Eat the rich with the rest of us; all belongs to all of us. ;~;

I like the state tho

It's better than being governed by unions, tbqh.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I like the state tho

... You do realize you could still have a state (of whatever flavor of state you happen to like) and have the people socially own the means of production, yes?

I may be the most fervent anarkitty on this site but even I know that.

But socialism sucks as much as pure capitalism sucks. Why not have the best of both systems?

[Torrocca]

... You do realize you could still have a state (of whatever flavor of state you happen to like) and have the people socially own the means of production, yes?

I may be the most fervent anarkitty on this site but even I know that.

But socialism sucks as much as pure capitalism sucks. Why not have the best of both systems?

How does sharing the MoP in common with your fellow citizens or whoever suck as much as a select few rich dickwads controlling 99% of the MoP and most of society's wealth?

[Kowani]

Ignoring the fact that I’m not communist for a second, time is the greatest weapon for my system. Lacking a radical worldshift, this will happen. It’s merely following the rhythms that capitalism has already established.

No, it won't.

Nah. Automation is unstoppable, mate. You cannot put the genie back in the bottle. On that front, I’ve won. The worldstate is the one that would take the longest to achieve.

[Nova Cyberia]

No, it won't.

Nah. Automation is unstoppable, mate. You cannot put the genie back in the bottle. On that front, I’ve won. The worldstate is the one that would take the longest to achieve.

>automation is unstoppable

Uh-huh.

Did you see this?

Such as?

This.

Yes. They could. Would it work? No.

Why?

Additionally, that logic of unemployment only makes sense from a capitalist framework, which this is decidedly not.

Uh, I'm pretty sure it also makes sense from a socialist standpoint to, depending on the type of socialist.

[Washington Resistance Army]

But socialism sucks as much as pure capitalism sucks. Why not have the best of both systems?

How does sharing the MoP in common with your fellow citizens or whoever suck as much as a select few rich dickwads controlling 99% of the MoP and most of society's wealth?

Because it's overall a worse economic system but it balances out on the suckiness scale cuz, as you said, rich dickwards can abuse the fuck out of the system and rig it in their favor. The solution though isn't to throw the baby out with the bath water, it's to instead reform the system and keep all the good bits while taking crony capitalism and the super rich out of the equation.

[Kowani]

Nah. Automation is unstoppable, mate. You cannot put the genie back in the bottle. On that front, I’ve won. The worldstate is the one that would take the longest to achieve.

>automation is unstoppable

Uh-huh.

Did you see this?

This.

Why?

Uh, I'm pretty sure it also makes sense from a socialist standpoint to, depending on the type of socialist.

The Report is for 2022. You have to think long term.

[Torrocca]

How does sharing the MoP in common with your fellow citizens or whoever suck as much as a select few rich dickwads controlling 99% of the MoP and most of society's wealth?

Because it's overall a worse economic system but it balances out on the suckiness scale cuz, as you said, rich dickwards can abuse the fuck out of the system and rig it in their favor. The solution though isn't to throw the baby out with the bath water, it's to instead reform the system and keep all the good bits while taking crony capitalism and the super rich out of the equation.

Crony Capitalism's just Capitalism, though. As long as there are people richer than others - who've become rich through the exploitation of those on the lower rungs of society - they can always make some degree of an effort to rig the game in their favor.

Besides that, there's other leftist economic theories that aren't Socialist nor Capitalist. Have you considered, say, Mutualism?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Because it's overall a worse economic system but it balances out on the suckiness scale cuz, as you said, rich dickwards can abuse the fuck out of the system and rig it in their favor. The solution though isn't to throw the baby out with the bath water, it's to instead reform the system and keep all the good bits while taking crony capitalism and the super rich out of the equation.

Crony Capitalism's just Capitalism, though. As long as there are people richer than others - who've become rich through the exploitation of those on the lower rungs of society - they can always make some degree of an effort to rig the game in their favor.

Besides that, there's other leftist economic theories that aren't Socialist nor Capitalist. Have you considered, say, Mutualism?

Wealth caps and no lobbyists friendo :3

I've been interested in mutualism in the past but I've never really bought into it. I don't particularly subscribe to any isms currently in general. It's all about that picking and choosing yo.

[Nova Cyberia]

>automation is unstoppable

Uh-huh.

Did you see this?

The Report is for 2022. You have to think long term.

I am thinking long-term. Right now, there's exactly 0 evidence that automation is going to lead to mass unemployment and social strife. In fact, there's plenty of evidence it's going to create a ton of new jobs.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The Report is for 2022. You have to think long term.

I am thinking long-term. Right now, there's exactly 0 evidence that automation is going to lead to mass unemployment and social strife. In fact, there's plenty of evidence it's going to create a ton of new jobs.

http://fortune.com/2019/01/10/automation-replace-jobs/

[Torrocca]

Crony Capitalism's just Capitalism, though. As long as there are people richer than others - who've become rich through the exploitation of those on the lower rungs of society - they can always make some degree of an effort to rig the game in their favor.

Besides that, there's other leftist economic theories that aren't Socialist nor Capitalist. Have you considered, say, Mutualism?

Wealth caps and no lobbyists friendo :3

Even then, that doesn't prevent under-the-table deals and the like from occurring, and it still doesn't address the issue of a select few people getting rich (even at a capped wealth level) from exploiting the work of others.

I've been interested in mutualism in the past but I've never really bought into it. I don't particularly subscribe to any isms currently in general. It's all about that picking and choosing yo.

You should look into more leftist ideas and works, and read the Bread Book. :3

[Nova Cyberia]

I am thinking long-term. Right now, there's exactly 0 evidence that automation is going to lead to mass unemployment and social strife. In fact, there's plenty of evidence it's going to create a ton of new jobs.

http://fortune.com/2019/01/10/automation-replace-jobs/

And, again, none of this accounts for new job creation.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Wealth caps and no lobbyists friendo :3

Even then, that doesn't prevent under-the-table deals and the like from occurring, and it still doesn't address the issue of a select few people getting rich (even at a capped wealth level) from exploiting the work of others.

Sure nothing is perfect but the same argument could be made for any system.

You should look into more leftist ideas and works, and read the Bread Book. :3

I did back when I was an edgy anarchist in high school. Not a fan of it nowadays tbh, and any new recommendations would have to wait cuz I'm still on my huge binge of guerrilla and assymetric warfare reading.

http://fortune.com/2019/01/10/automation-replace-jobs/

And, again, none of this accounts for new job creation.

Because there's not going to be nearly enough new job creation.