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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9222
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun May 19, 2019 7:40 pm

Kowani wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:I don't know what your basis is for a success story but Egypt coming out of a revolution and then the revolution getting beat down by its own armed forces doesn't sound like it. Tunisia seems to have been doing a lot better.

Oh, I was being sarcastic.

Ah, apologies then. So it was just ND praising authoritarians again.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11389
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Sun May 19, 2019 7:46 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:I don't know what your basis is for a success story but Egypt coming out of a revolution and then the revolution getting beat down by its own armed forces doesn't sound like it. Tunisia seems to have been doing a lot better.

Tunisia seems to be the only North African country doing well for itself, and not screwing over its people in the process.

And it's not even ruled by Shariah to a significant extent.
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Proctopeo
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9977
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Proctopeo » Sun May 19, 2019 7:59 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Tunisia seems to be the only North African country doing well for itself, and not screwing over its people in the process.

And it's not even ruled by Shariah to a significant extent.

Seems like avoiding Shariah - or any religiously-centered law system, for that matter, but it's the only one with such strong influence today - is a requirement for any degree of lasting success.
That, or being fuckoff rich so you can pay your people not to overthrow you, but that only works for so long.
Center-right libertarian LockeabooEconomic: 5.25
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RIP Balk
Crockerland wrote:Yes, we are aware, the Israelis protect their civilians with weapons while the Palestinians protect their weapons with civilians.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11389
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Sun May 19, 2019 8:23 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:And it's not even ruled by Shariah to a significant extent.

Seems like avoiding Shariah - or any religiously-centered law system, for that matter, but it's the only one with such strong influence today - is a requirement for any degree of lasting success.
That, or being fuckoff rich so you can pay your people not to overthrow you, but that only works for so long.

Referring to Brunei, I imagine?
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9222
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun May 19, 2019 8:25 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Seems like avoiding Shariah - or any religiously-centered law system, for that matter, but it's the only one with such strong influence today - is a requirement for any degree of lasting success.
That, or being fuckoff rich so you can pay your people not to overthrow you, but that only works for so long.

Referring to Brunei, I imagine?

And most of the Gulf States - Bahrain and Qatar, most prominently. Qatar is literally a slave state.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11389
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Sun May 19, 2019 8:25 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Referring to Brunei, I imagine?

And most of the Gulf States - Bahrain and Qatar, most prominently. Qatar is literally a slave state.

Don't know much about Kuwait - is it the same way?
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9222
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun May 19, 2019 8:26 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:And most of the Gulf States - Bahrain and Qatar, most prominently. Qatar is literally a slave state.

Don't know much about Kuwait - is it the same way?

Not all too familiar. Bahrain and Qatar are the most striking for me personally. Qatari employers can literally take passports from foreign migrants.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16750
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun May 19, 2019 8:45 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Kowani wrote:Oh, I was being sarcastic.

Ah, apologies then. So it was just ND praising authoritarians again.

Ironically, yes.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 52263
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon May 20, 2019 5:48 am

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/a ... 086/701424

Tax cuts for the rich do not generate many jobs according to studies on the matter. Only tax cuts for the poor and middle class have this effect.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Mon May 20, 2019 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
New Sig, who dis?
Patriarchy theory is a valid academic theory, not incel tier psychological abuse which maps on to any situation a woman doesn't like and enables them to rationalize a hostility to men, we swear.
https://i.redd.it/zj1a11ooxwb31.jpg

User avatar
Epicurustan
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: May 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Epicurustan » Mon May 20, 2019 6:18 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/701424

Tax cuts for the rich do not generate many jobs according to studies on the matter. Only tax cuts for the poor and middle class have this effect.

Great! Now just put it into practice.
LEGALIZED MARIJUANA 2020
Philosophy and Religion student. Epicurean, Taoist.
Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05

User avatar
Evil Dictators Happyland
Minister
 
Posts: 3225
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon May 20, 2019 6:23 am

Epicurustan wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/701424

Tax cuts for the rich do not generate many jobs according to studies on the matter. Only tax cuts for the poor and middle class have this effect.

Great! Now just put it into practice.

But won't you think of the poor, poor billionaires, working their fingers to the bone setting up offshore accounts and buying private planes for their mistresses?
Killer Queen has already touched this signature.

User avatar
Epicurustan
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: May 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Epicurustan » Mon May 20, 2019 6:24 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Epicurustan wrote:Great! Now just put it into practice.

But won't you think of the poor, poor billionaires, working their fingers to the bone setting up offshore accounts and buying private planes for their mistresses?

Don't worry, they too will receive a basic income.
LEGALIZED MARIJUANA 2020
Philosophy and Religion student. Epicurean, Taoist.
Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11389
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Mon May 20, 2019 8:45 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Epicurustan wrote:Great! Now just put it into practice.

But won't you think of the poor, poor billionaires, working their fingers to the bone setting up offshore accounts and buying private planes for their mistresses?

Hey! I'll have you know that some of the billionaires are good, hardworking people and they have male sidepieces!
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Kavagrad
Diplomat
 
Posts: 967
Founded: Nov 22, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kavagrad » Mon May 20, 2019 9:07 am

Cekoviu wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:But won't you think of the poor, poor billionaires, working their fingers to the bone setting up offshore accounts and buying private planes for their mistresses?

Hey! I'll have you know that some of the billionaires are good, hardworking people and they have male sidepieces!

Away, liberal! Away!
Claorica wrote:It's leftists like this that really warm me up to Hoppe's idea of physical removal
Sobriety & Anti-Fascism

User avatar
West Leas Oros 2
Minister
 
Posts: 2135
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon May 20, 2019 1:26 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:But won't you think of the poor, poor billionaires, working their fingers to the bone setting up offshore accounts and buying private planes for their mistresses?

Hey! I'll have you know that some of the billionaires are good, hardworking people and they have male sidepieces!

I don't see why these bigoted people hate capitalism! Capitalism is woke! They value all wallets equally!
West Leas Oros 2, Election Boogaloo (Please ignore the 2 in our name in all IC interactions)
WLO Public News: West Leas Oros now a sponsor of Leninade!
I killed the entire population of Vuvuzela by raising the minimum wage
Simultaneously an evil commie who wants to take your toothbrush, and an evil brocialist reactionary and revisionist.
An accurate description of NSG: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IQFU1y928dw

MP Arthur Woole in the NS Parliament

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Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11389
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Mon May 20, 2019 2:29 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Hey! I'll have you know that some of the billionaires are good, hardworking people and they have male sidepieces!

I don't see why these bigoted people hate capitalism! Capitalism is woke! They value all wallets equally!

Not sure what your point is or why you quoted my post.
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Mon May 20, 2019 9:46 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Hey! I'll have you know that some of the billionaires are good, hardworking people and they have male sidepieces!

I don't see why these bigoted people hate capitalism! Capitalism is woke! They value all wallets equally!

"True equality will only be achieved when 50% of CEOs are women."
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Senator
 
Posts: 4430
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon May 20, 2019 10:06 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:I don't see why these bigoted people hate capitalism! Capitalism is woke! They value all wallets equally!

"True equality will only be achieved when 50% of CEOs are women."


Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

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Asherahan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1969
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Asherahan » Tue May 21, 2019 2:38 am

Should we force secularism on all people and State Atheism for State Employees?

I believe this is the best choice to deal with fundamentalists.
Status: Serial Forum Lurker
Ideologically a Left Statist
Who Likes: Single Party Democracy | Democratic Centralism | State Capitalism | Blanquism | State Atheism | Sex Positive Feminism & Socialist Feminism
Former Resident of NSG CTALNH here since 2011 - Add like 10000 to my post number.
Political Stances

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue May 21, 2019 3:02 am

Asherahan wrote:Should we force secularism on all people and State Atheism for State Employees?

I believe this is the best choice to deal with fundamentalists.

Secularism is not forced, it is only infringed upon. To restrict expression of religion is not secularism but a violation of it. State atheism is as bad as theocracy. The state should not have a position on religion, other than that all people are entitled to their beliefs.
Last edited by The Xenopolis Confederation on Tue May 21, 2019 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Page
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10580
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Tue May 21, 2019 3:02 am

Asherahan wrote:Should we force secularism on all people and State Atheism for State Employees?

I believe this is the best choice to deal with fundamentalists.


No. We should promote secularism by example, by making it look appealing. Show people how we aren't ashamed of our bodies and our sexuality, how we don't live in fear of divine judgment, how we have a consistent moral code based on humanist principles, and that we're happier because we are free from religion.

Rather than coerce people, show that secular life is free from coercion.
I am a libertarian socialist.
I am ungovernable.
I owe no allegiance to any state.
I am bound to my conscience, not to the law.
I stand for liberty, justice, and peace.

User avatar
Asherahan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1969
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Asherahan » Tue May 21, 2019 3:09 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Asherahan wrote:Should we force secularism on all people and State Atheism for State Employees?

I believe this is the best choice to deal with fundamentalists.

Secularism is not forced, it is only infringed upon. State atheism is as bad as theocracy. The state should not have a position on religion, other than that all people are entitled to their beliefs.

Why should progress by slowed by a Fundamentalists even if the moderates among them don't care?
Status: Serial Forum Lurker
Ideologically a Left Statist
Who Likes: Single Party Democracy | Democratic Centralism | State Capitalism | Blanquism | State Atheism | Sex Positive Feminism & Socialist Feminism
Former Resident of NSG CTALNH here since 2011 - Add like 10000 to my post number.
Political Stances

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue May 21, 2019 3:10 am

Asherahan wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Secularism is not forced, it is only infringed upon. State atheism is as bad as theocracy. The state should not have a position on religion, other than that all people are entitled to their beliefs.

Why should progress by slowed by a Fundamentalists even if the moderates among them don't care?

Because fundamentalists have a right to peacefully express their beliefs.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Asherahan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1969
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Asherahan » Tue May 21, 2019 3:14 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Asherahan wrote:Why should progress by slowed by a Fundamentalists even if the moderates among them don't care?

Because fundamentalists have a right to peacefully express their beliefs.

No as an extremist I refuse to allow other extremists to even breath why would I let them have feelings and opinions?
Status: Serial Forum Lurker
Ideologically a Left Statist
Who Likes: Single Party Democracy | Democratic Centralism | State Capitalism | Blanquism | State Atheism | Sex Positive Feminism & Socialist Feminism
Former Resident of NSG CTALNH here since 2011 - Add like 10000 to my post number.
Political Stances

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue May 21, 2019 3:17 am

Asherahan wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Because fundamentalists have a right to peacefully express their beliefs.

No as an extremist I refuse to allow other extremists to even breath why would I let them have feelings and opinions?

Poe's law, help pls.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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