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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
Epicurustan
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: May 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Epicurustan » Sat May 18, 2019 1:06 pm

Communist Zombie Horde wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Yes, all factions in Syria are pretty bad, but bombing everything will only make it worse.

A rightist revolution probably wouldn’t work so bombing is the second option.

Projecting American political ideologies and culture on Syria is not the best thing to do, nor to hope for.
LEGALIZED MARIJUANA 2020
Philosophy and Religion student. Epicurean, Taoist.
Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25919
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sat May 18, 2019 3:15 pm

Communal concils wrote:
First American Empire wrote:

No. I'm hoping that Syria gets conquered by Rojava.



So you want arabs to be oppressed again.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syri ... SKCN1S40RD

I guess it's okay that the kurds can become economic manipulators, I guess it's okay for a historically oppress groups to oppress other people.


It's so fucking hilarious that you continue to pretend to be a Communist and then shit on successful, legitimate leftist movements because they don't toe your line of political beliefs lmao.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Asherahan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1969
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Asherahan » Sat May 18, 2019 11:53 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Communal concils wrote:

So you want arabs to be oppressed again.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syri ... SKCN1S40RD

I guess it's okay that the kurds can become economic manipulators, I guess it's okay for a historically oppress groups to oppress other people.


It's so fucking hilarious that you continue to pretend to be a Communist and then shit on successful, legitimate leftist movements because they don't toe your line of political beliefs lmao.

Have the Kurds started oppressing the Arabs yet?

Also thankfully I stopped calling myself a Communist to convenience you. I am now a Left Statist.
Last edited by Asherahan on Sat May 18, 2019 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Status: Serial Forum Lurker
Ideologically a Left Statist
Who Likes: Single Party Democracy | Democratic Centralism | State Capitalism | Blanquism | State Atheism | Sex Positive Feminism & Socialist Feminism
Former Resident of NSG CTALNH here since 2011 - Add like 10000 to my post number.
Political Stances

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25919
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sat May 18, 2019 11:55 pm

Asherahan wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
It's so fucking hilarious that you continue to pretend to be a Communist and then shit on successful, legitimate leftist movements because they don't toe your line of political beliefs lmao.

Have the Kurds started oppressing the Arabs yet?


The worst they've done, from what I can tell, is remove families from their homes in a couple of villages as a matter of military necessity in the fight against ISIS and take oil from occupied lands, presumably for their war effort against ISIS and Turkey's recent incursions.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Asherahan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1969
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Asherahan » Sat May 18, 2019 11:58 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Asherahan wrote:Have the Kurds started oppressing the Arabs yet?


The worst they've done, from what I can tell, is remove families from their homes in a couple of villages as a matter of military necessity in the fight against ISIS and take oil from occupied lands, presumably for their war effort against ISIS and Turkey's recent incursions.

Tag me when they start oppressing them for real like exile or extrajudicial killings. So I can tell everyone I told you so.
Status: Serial Forum Lurker
Ideologically a Left Statist
Who Likes: Single Party Democracy | Democratic Centralism | State Capitalism | Blanquism | State Atheism | Sex Positive Feminism & Socialist Feminism
Former Resident of NSG CTALNH here since 2011 - Add like 10000 to my post number.
Political Stances

User avatar
Cerinda
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Feb 18, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Cerinda » Sun May 19, 2019 2:35 am

TFW everyone is supporting Rojava but you want Syria to be part of a socialist pan-Arab State.
Nation does not represent irl views.
Pro: Socialism, Anti-imperialism, Anti-Fascism, Worker's rights, Gun Rights, Republicanism, Left-Wing Populism, History, LGBTQ+, Military parades, Atheism, Secularism

Anti: Capitalism, Fascism, Monarchism, Far right Nationalism, Gun Control, Imperialism, NATO, Religion, Racism, Conservativism, Traditionalism
Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:As always, she and her inbred minions will be fine whilst the rest of us get our arseholes annexed by the might of the Tory thundercock.
Title: The People's Socialist Republic of Cerinda
Leader: Andrei Kamriov
Government: One Party Marxist-Leninist State under the control of the Communist Party
Capital: Kovograd


Will be posting again soon

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 2:40 am

Cerinda wrote:TFW everyone is supporting Rojava but you want Syria to be part of a socialist pan-Arab State.

Arabs do not need Socialism, they first and foremost need liberalism, in order to temper fundamentalism and suppression.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Cerinda
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Feb 18, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Cerinda » Sun May 19, 2019 3:43 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Cerinda wrote:TFW everyone is supporting Rojava but you want Syria to be part of a socialist pan-Arab State.

Arabs do not need Socialism, they first and foremost need liberalism, in order to temper fundamentalism and suppression.

Arab Socialist movements are overly Liberal, they support secularism, women's rights, and are against religious fundamentalism. They're probably the most liberal force in the Arab world.
Nation does not represent irl views.
Pro: Socialism, Anti-imperialism, Anti-Fascism, Worker's rights, Gun Rights, Republicanism, Left-Wing Populism, History, LGBTQ+, Military parades, Atheism, Secularism

Anti: Capitalism, Fascism, Monarchism, Far right Nationalism, Gun Control, Imperialism, NATO, Religion, Racism, Conservativism, Traditionalism
Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:As always, she and her inbred minions will be fine whilst the rest of us get our arseholes annexed by the might of the Tory thundercock.
Title: The People's Socialist Republic of Cerinda
Leader: Andrei Kamriov
Government: One Party Marxist-Leninist State under the control of the Communist Party
Capital: Kovograd


Will be posting again soon

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 3:52 am

Cerinda wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Arabs do not need Socialism, they first and foremost need liberalism, in order to temper fundamentalism and suppression.

Arab Socialist movements are overly Liberal, they support secularism, women's rights, and are against religious fundamentalism. They're probably the most liberal force in the Arab world.

If that is true, then that is good.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Nakena
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5739
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Sun May 19, 2019 4:01 am

Asherahan wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
It's so fucking hilarious that you continue to pretend to be a Communist and then shit on successful, legitimate leftist movements because they don't toe your line of political beliefs lmao.

Have the Kurds started oppressing the Arabs yet?

Also thankfully I stopped calling myself a Communist to convenience you. I am now a Left Statist.


Just go by Marxism Leninism.
【Your friendly neighbourhood barista and genderqueer degenerate bohemian】
【Female or they/them pronoun preferred but not required】

₴Ø₦₳₭ Ø₴

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Asherahan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1969
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Asherahan » Sun May 19, 2019 4:50 am

Nakena wrote:
Asherahan wrote:Have the Kurds started oppressing the Arabs yet?

Also thankfully I stopped calling myself a Communist to convenience you. I am now a Left Statist.


Just go by Marxism Leninism.

I was for a long time.
Status: Serial Forum Lurker
Ideologically a Left Statist
Who Likes: Single Party Democracy | Democratic Centralism | State Capitalism | Blanquism | State Atheism | Sex Positive Feminism & Socialist Feminism
Former Resident of NSG CTALNH here since 2011 - Add like 10000 to my post number.
Political Stances

User avatar
North German Realm
Minister
 
Posts: 2808
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby North German Realm » Sun May 19, 2019 5:45 am

Cerinda wrote:TFW everyone is supporting Rojava but you want Syria to be part of a socialist pan-Arab State.

I don't think creating a fascist state for a peoples with a culture like that of the Arabs would be a good idea. It'd be even worse than a normal fascist state, in fact.
------------------
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North Germany
Norddeutschland

North German Realm will go through a massive overhaul in the next few months. Please stand by.
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Legislature || The World
23 October, 1912
Norddeutsche Morgenpost: North Germany, France begin evacuating Russia after 78% of Russian industry was transported back home. Russia warned that another invasion will be imminent if all reparations and debts are not paid until 1915. || Former-President Theodore Roosevelt passes away, killed by saloonkeeper John Schrank while on a speech on October 14. || Treaty of the Hague signed between the Pact powers and Yugoslavia. Yugoslavian independence recognized by 8 countries after Yugoslavia revokes claim on Greek Macedonia. || Ulster Covenant defeated in Ulster despite backlash from Protestant Irish.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 5:55 am

North German Realm wrote:
Cerinda wrote:TFW everyone is supporting Rojava but you want Syria to be part of a socialist pan-Arab State.

I don't think creating a fascist state for a peoples with a culture like that of the Arabs would be a good idea. It'd be even worse than a normal fascist state, in fact.

Socialism =/= Fascism. Are you going Ben Shapiro on us rn?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
New yugoslavaia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 793
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New yugoslavaia » Sun May 19, 2019 6:16 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
North German Realm wrote:I don't think creating a fascist state for a peoples with a culture like that of the Arabs would be a good idea. It'd be even worse than a normal fascist state, in fact.

Socialism =/= Fascism. Are you going Ben Shapiro on us rn?


Arab normies DESTROYED with FACTS and LOGIC!
Yugoslavia's back baby...

How the hell did this happen?
Well, this happened because after a failed attempt at a corporatocracy, Serbia was left with a pseudo-nationalist government which was incompetent to say the least. Following a revolution, a slightly authoritarian social democracy was established. More nations were incorporated as time went on. Now it's slightly-self sustaining and technologic advanced.

User avatar
Cerinda
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Feb 18, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Cerinda » Sun May 19, 2019 6:55 am

North German Realm wrote:
Cerinda wrote:TFW everyone is supporting Rojava but you want Syria to be part of a socialist pan-Arab State.

I don't think creating a fascist state for a peoples with a culture like that of the Arabs would be a good idea. It'd be even worse than a normal fascist state, in fact.

>Thinks Fascism and Socialism are the same.
Steven Crowder? Is that you?
Nation does not represent irl views.
Pro: Socialism, Anti-imperialism, Anti-Fascism, Worker's rights, Gun Rights, Republicanism, Left-Wing Populism, History, LGBTQ+, Military parades, Atheism, Secularism

Anti: Capitalism, Fascism, Monarchism, Far right Nationalism, Gun Control, Imperialism, NATO, Religion, Racism, Conservativism, Traditionalism
Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:As always, she and her inbred minions will be fine whilst the rest of us get our arseholes annexed by the might of the Tory thundercock.
Title: The People's Socialist Republic of Cerinda
Leader: Andrei Kamriov
Government: One Party Marxist-Leninist State under the control of the Communist Party
Capital: Kovograd


Will be posting again soon

User avatar
New yugoslavaia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 793
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New yugoslavaia » Sun May 19, 2019 8:15 am

Cerinda wrote:
North German Realm wrote:I don't think creating a fascist state for a peoples with a culture like that of the Arabs would be a good idea. It'd be even worse than a normal fascist state, in fact.

>Thinks Fascism and Socialism are the same.
Steven Crowder? Is that you?

Muslims *exist*
Steve:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRvI18OfiTI
Yugoslavia's back baby...

How the hell did this happen?
Well, this happened because after a failed attempt at a corporatocracy, Serbia was left with a pseudo-nationalist government which was incompetent to say the least. Following a revolution, a slightly authoritarian social democracy was established. More nations were incorporated as time went on. Now it's slightly-self sustaining and technologic advanced.

User avatar
North German Realm
Minister
 
Posts: 2808
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby North German Realm » Sun May 19, 2019 9:35 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
North German Realm wrote:I don't think creating a fascist state for a peoples with a culture like that of the Arabs would be a good idea. It'd be even worse than a normal fascist state, in fact.

Socialism =/= Fascism. Are you going Ben Shapiro on us rn?


Cerinda wrote:
North German Realm wrote:I don't think creating a fascist state for a peoples with a culture like that of the Arabs would be a good idea. It'd be even worse than a normal fascist state, in fact.

>Thinks Fascism and Socialism are the same.
Steven Crowder? Is that you?




I'm sorry, I'm too much of an idiot to realize a highly ethnic nationalistic ideology, mixed with collectivist policies mistakenly assumed to be socialism is not how you generally define fucking national socialism. It's not even in disguise. It's almost like you guys have never even studied the Ba'ath (Which is... almost consistently accepted to be fascist when its collectivist policies are successfully implemented alongside its ethnic supremacist irridentism)
------------------
------------------
------------------
North Germany
Norddeutschland

North German Realm will go through a massive overhaul in the next few months. Please stand by.
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Legislature || The World
23 October, 1912
Norddeutsche Morgenpost: North Germany, France begin evacuating Russia after 78% of Russian industry was transported back home. Russia warned that another invasion will be imminent if all reparations and debts are not paid until 1915. || Former-President Theodore Roosevelt passes away, killed by saloonkeeper John Schrank while on a speech on October 14. || Treaty of the Hague signed between the Pact powers and Yugoslavia. Yugoslavian independence recognized by 8 countries after Yugoslavia revokes claim on Greek Macedonia. || Ulster Covenant defeated in Ulster despite backlash from Protestant Irish.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 9:40 am

North German Realm wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Socialism =/= Fascism. Are you going Ben Shapiro on us rn?


Cerinda wrote:>Thinks Fascism and Socialism are the same.
Steven Crowder? Is that you?




I'm sorry, I'm too much of an idiot to realize a highly ethnic nationalistic ideology, mixed with collectivist policies mistakenly assumed to be socialism is not how you generally define fucking national socialism. It's not even in disguise. It's almost like you guys have never even studied the Ba'ath (Which is... almost consistently accepted to be fascist when its collectivist policies are successfully implemented alongside its ethnic supremacist irridentism)

Is pan-Arab Socialism ethno-Nationalistic by necessitity? I guess it could be argued to be. Still, theren's more to Fascism than racism and collectivist ecomonomics.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Cerinda
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Feb 18, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Cerinda » Sun May 19, 2019 9:51 am

North German Realm wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Socialism =/= Fascism. Are you going Ben Shapiro on us rn?


Cerinda wrote:>Thinks Fascism and Socialism are the same.
Steven Crowder? Is that you?




I'm sorry, I'm too much of an idiot to realize a highly ethnic nationalistic ideology, mixed with collectivist policies mistakenly assumed to be socialism is not how you generally define fucking national socialism. It's not even in disguise. It's almost like you guys have never even studied the Ba'ath (Which is... almost consistently accepted to be fascist when its collectivist policies are successfully implemented alongside its ethnic supremacist irridentism)

That's not what Ba'athism is at all, Jesus Christ. Ba'athism is a Socialist left-wing nationalist movement that calls for Pan-Arabism, nothing about it is fascist, fascism privatises the economy while Ba'athist governments have nationalised it and brought it under the control of the workers. Also the Syrian government is allies with communist groups and was allies with the Soviet Union, hell it's still allies with Cuba and North Korea, but yeah it's totally "fascist."
Last edited by Cerinda on Sun May 19, 2019 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nation does not represent irl views.
Pro: Socialism, Anti-imperialism, Anti-Fascism, Worker's rights, Gun Rights, Republicanism, Left-Wing Populism, History, LGBTQ+, Military parades, Atheism, Secularism

Anti: Capitalism, Fascism, Monarchism, Far right Nationalism, Gun Control, Imperialism, NATO, Religion, Racism, Conservativism, Traditionalism
Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:As always, she and her inbred minions will be fine whilst the rest of us get our arseholes annexed by the might of the Tory thundercock.
Title: The People's Socialist Republic of Cerinda
Leader: Andrei Kamriov
Government: One Party Marxist-Leninist State under the control of the Communist Party
Capital: Kovograd


Will be posting again soon

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25919
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun May 19, 2019 9:58 am

Cerinda wrote:
North German Realm wrote:




I'm sorry, I'm too much of an idiot to realize a highly ethnic nationalistic ideology, mixed with collectivist policies mistakenly assumed to be socialism is not how you generally define fucking national socialism. It's not even in disguise. It's almost like you guys have never even studied the Ba'ath (Which is... almost consistently accepted to be fascist when its collectivist policies are successfully implemented alongside its ethnic supremacist irridentism)

That's not what Ba'athism is at all, Jesus Christ. Ba'athism is a Socialist left-wing nationalist movement that calls for Pan-Arabism, nothing about it is fascist, fascism privatises the economy while Ba'athist governments have nationalised it and brought it under the control of the workers. Also the Syrian government is allies with communist groups and was allies with the Soviet Union, hell it's still allies with Cuba and North Korea, but yeah it's totally "fascist."


Funny how a "Socialist" movement doesn't support seizing the means of production:

"A Ba'athist state supports socialist economics to a varying degree and supports public ownership over the heights of the economy, but opposes the confiscation of private property."
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
North German Realm
Minister
 
Posts: 2808
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby North German Realm » Sun May 19, 2019 10:08 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Is pan-Arab Socialism ethno-Nationalistic by necessitity? I guess it could be argued to be. Still, theren's more to Fascism than racism and collectivist ecomonomics.
Yes. By its very nature, Pan-Arabism is ethno-centric, because there is no "civic" culture for any non-ethnic nationalism to originate from among Arab Cultures. And... kinda, not really? At its core, economic or social collectivist policies, the existence of a "master race" (or "master culture"), and a totalitarian state is all you need to deduce a state is roughly "Fascist".

Cerinda wrote:That's not what Ba'athism is at all, Jesus Christ. Ba'athism is a Socialist left-wing nationalist movement that calls for Pan-Arabism, nothing about it is fascist, fascism privatises the economy while Ba'athist governments have nationalised it and brought it under the control of the workers. Also the Syrian government is allies with communist groups and was allies with the Soviet Union, hell it's still allies with Cuba and North Korea, but yeah it's totally "fascist."

1- Ba'athism is only left-wing in the same sense Strasserism is left-wing. It has proto-collectivist economic principles hidden behind layers and layers of ethno-centric hate and spite. It is Nationalist first and foremost, and by very design only implements collectivist economic policies (and not socialist either. As Torocca so-eloquently put, it is no fan of collectivisation beyond what is necessary for the Arab State to survive) because it is "What the Arab People Need". Kinda like how early post-syndicalist Fascists thought about socialism, which is of course no surprised as its early founders were either fascists or heavily influenced by fascists.

2- Depending on the Fascist State in question, your "privatizes the economy" can have no leg to stand on. Early Fascists were no fan of privatization, but rather "collectivisation". Not full control of everything, but "anything that can Help" the ethno-state in question.

3- I'm not sure if you realize how diplomatic principles work. People, contrary to popular belief, don't make alliances based on political or social opinions, but on common benefits.
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------------------
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North Germany
Norddeutschland

North German Realm will go through a massive overhaul in the next few months. Please stand by.
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Legislature || The World
23 October, 1912
Norddeutsche Morgenpost: North Germany, France begin evacuating Russia after 78% of Russian industry was transported back home. Russia warned that another invasion will be imminent if all reparations and debts are not paid until 1915. || Former-President Theodore Roosevelt passes away, killed by saloonkeeper John Schrank while on a speech on October 14. || Treaty of the Hague signed between the Pact powers and Yugoslavia. Yugoslavian independence recognized by 8 countries after Yugoslavia revokes claim on Greek Macedonia. || Ulster Covenant defeated in Ulster despite backlash from Protestant Irish.

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Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41689
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun May 19, 2019 10:25 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Cerinda wrote:TFW everyone is supporting Rojava but you want Syria to be part of a socialist pan-Arab State.

Arabs do not need Socialism, they first and foremost need liberalism, in order to temper fundamentalism and suppression.


The last thing any part of the world needs is western liberalism tbh

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 10:27 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Arabs do not need Socialism, they first and foremost need liberalism, in order to temper fundamentalism and suppression.


The last thing any part of the world needs is western liberalism tbh

Would you prefer the theocratic, authoritarian fundamentalism the Arab world has now?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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Cerinda
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Feb 18, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Cerinda » Sun May 19, 2019 10:27 am

North German Realm wrote:
1- Ba'athism is only left-wing in the same sense Strasserism is left-wing. It has proto-collectivist economic principles hidden behind layers and layers of ethno-centric hate and spite. It is Nationalist first and foremost, and by very design only implements collectivist economic policies (and not socialist either. As Torocca so-eloquently put, it is no fan of collectivisation beyond what is necessary for the Arab State to survive) because it is "What the Arab People Need". Kinda like how early post-syndicalist Fascists thought about socialism, which is of course no surprised as its early founders were either fascists or heavily influenced by fascists.

"Ethno-centric hate and spite" lol, I guess being against Israel is hate and spite. Also the founder Michel Aflaq was a communist, so no he wasn't a "fascist", unless you think communism and fascism are the same.

2- Depending on the Fascist State in question, your "privatizes the economy" can have no leg to stand on. Early Fascists were no fan of privatization, but rather "collectivisation". Not full control of everything, but "anything that can Help" the ethno-state in question.

All Fascist states privatized the economy, just because early fascists were "no fan of privatization" doesn't mean anything. Also Ba'athism doesn't call for an ethno-state, it uses Pan-Arabism as a way for the Arab world to not be oppressed by foreign imperialists, non-Arabs can live peacefully in the state.

3- I'm not sure if you realize how diplomatic principles work. People, contrary to popular belief, don't make alliances based on political or social opinions, but on common benefits.

Nice doge there, you would think if the Syrian government were fascist then they wouldn't be allies with communist states, because, you know? Fascism is anti communist.
Nation does not represent irl views.
Pro: Socialism, Anti-imperialism, Anti-Fascism, Worker's rights, Gun Rights, Republicanism, Left-Wing Populism, History, LGBTQ+, Military parades, Atheism, Secularism

Anti: Capitalism, Fascism, Monarchism, Far right Nationalism, Gun Control, Imperialism, NATO, Religion, Racism, Conservativism, Traditionalism
Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:As always, she and her inbred minions will be fine whilst the rest of us get our arseholes annexed by the might of the Tory thundercock.
Title: The People's Socialist Republic of Cerinda
Leader: Andrei Kamriov
Government: One Party Marxist-Leninist State under the control of the Communist Party
Capital: Kovograd


Will be posting again soon

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Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41689
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun May 19, 2019 10:28 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The last thing any part of the world needs is western liberalism tbh

Would you prefer the theocratic, authoritarian fundamentalism the Arab world has now?


As long as it remains isolated to their little corner of the world I wouldn't care.

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