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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
Painisia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1596
Founded: Nov 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Painisia » Thu May 16, 2019 4:00 am

I think many Commies (including libertarian and utopian socialists) here in the LWDT view Nicolae Ceausescu as the biggest revisionist in the left-wing universe. He basically went turbo-fascist after he paid a visit to Kim Il-sung in 1971 and made Romania look like another Hoxhaist utopia.

The difference between Kim`s Juche and Eastern European Communism is that he implemented religious ideas (a divine leader) and militaristic nationalism into his ideological hotpot.
-Christian Democrat
-Syncretic
-Distributist
-Personalist
-Ecologism
-Popolarismo
-Corporatist
Formerly, the nation of Painisia November 2017 - August 2019

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Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11398
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Thu May 16, 2019 9:45 am

Painisia wrote:I think many Commies (including libertarian and utopian socialists) here in the LWDT view Nicolae Ceausescu as the biggest revisionist in the left-wing universe. He basically went turbo-fascist after he paid a visit to Kim Il-sung in 1971 and made Romania look like another Hoxhaist utopia.

The difference between Kim`s Juche and Eastern European Communism is that he implemented religious ideas (a divine leader) and militaristic nationalism into his ideological hotpot.

>Hoxhaist
>utopia
Image
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Painisia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1596
Founded: Nov 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Painisia » Thu May 16, 2019 11:19 am

Cekoviu wrote:
Painisia wrote:I think many Commies (including libertarian and utopian socialists) here in the LWDT view Nicolae Ceausescu as the biggest revisionist in the left-wing universe. He basically went turbo-fascist after he paid a visit to Kim Il-sung in 1971 and made Romania look like another Hoxhaist utopia.

The difference between Kim`s Juche and Eastern European Communism is that he implemented religious ideas (a divine leader) and militaristic nationalism into his ideological hotpot.

>Hoxhaist
>utopia
Image


I meant the ideal Hoxhaist state. Not a Six Flags Fun Paradise
Last edited by Painisia on Thu May 16, 2019 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Christian Democrat
-Syncretic
-Distributist
-Personalist
-Ecologism
-Popolarismo
-Corporatist
Formerly, the nation of Painisia November 2017 - August 2019

User avatar
First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 790
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Libertarian Police State

Postby First American Empire » Thu May 16, 2019 11:28 am

Kowani wrote:
Joohan wrote: I don’t deny that it’ll undergo evolutions, but I doubt it’ll die. Most people aren’t inclined to give up their rights.
Yes, but you said “our faith.” To put that in perspective, it’s as if a Muslim has said the exact same thing. Just because it grew out of Judaism doesn’t make it as old as Judaism. And in terms of persecution, the only entity that could possibly have wiped out Christianity was the Roman Empire. That doesn’t mean that Christians weren’t persecuted, but the actual religion was never in danger.

…Not really? Once Christians became the dominant power within Rome, they treated the pagans about the same way they had been. In the medieval era, it was the papacy and the constant search for heretics that plunged the Church into blood. In the Age of Empire, well.
The idea that Christianity won out because of the correctness of its doctrine is ahistorical. Heck, the idea that for the majority of its time, Christianity was peaceful isn’t entirely true, either.


This. Christianity only won out because the Roman Empire forced its people to convert at swordpoint. (Which, as a Pagan, I am still really angry about.) Christianity can't maintain its position of religious dominance without coercion, and its decline in much of the world is proof of that.
The American Empire is a socially progressive and strongly anti-nationalist absolute monarchy ruled by the heirs of Emperor Norton.

This nation doesn't reflect my political views on many issues, especially monarchism and foreign policy. I'm an ordinary social democrat in real life.

User avatar
Loben The 2nd
Minister
 
Posts: 2158
Founded: Apr 29, 2019
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Loben The 2nd » Thu May 16, 2019 11:57 am

First American Empire wrote:
Kowani wrote:…Not really? Once Christians became the dominant power within Rome, they treated the pagans about the same way they had been. In the medieval era, it was the papacy and the constant search for heretics that plunged the Church into blood. In the Age of Empire, well.
The idea that Christianity won out because of the correctness of its doctrine is ahistorical. Heck, the idea that for the majority of its time, Christianity was peaceful isn’t entirely true, either.


This. Christianity only won out because the Roman Empire forced its people to convert at swordpoint. (Which, as a Pagan, I am still really angry about.) Christianity can't maintain its position of religious dominance without coercion, and its decline in much of the world is proof of that.


Wow. A pagan.

Was never fond of putting effort into faith were you?
Eternal Lotharia wrote:You prioritize hatred of ideology over human rights. Fucking disgusting of you.

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Loben is a low tier poster who hardly represents Americans. He is pretty much an edgelord.

Satisfaction guaranteed.

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41689
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu May 16, 2019 11:59 am

Loben The 2nd wrote:
First American Empire wrote:
This. Christianity only won out because the Roman Empire forced its people to convert at swordpoint. (Which, as a Pagan, I am still really angry about.) Christianity can't maintain its position of religious dominance without coercion, and its decline in much of the world is proof of that.


Wow. A pagan.

Was never fond of putting effort into faith were you?


Amusingly enough every pagan I know puts far more effort into their faith than most every Christian I've met.

User avatar
Loben The 2nd
Minister
 
Posts: 2158
Founded: Apr 29, 2019
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Loben The 2nd » Thu May 16, 2019 12:00 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Loben The 2nd wrote:
Wow. A pagan.

Was never fond of putting effort into faith were you?


Amusingly enough every pagan I know puts far more effort into their faith than most every Christian I've met.


Perhaps you could expand your search in an area wider then “cultural Christians”
Eternal Lotharia wrote:You prioritize hatred of ideology over human rights. Fucking disgusting of you.

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Loben is a low tier poster who hardly represents Americans. He is pretty much an edgelord.

Satisfaction guaranteed.

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41689
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu May 16, 2019 12:03 pm

Loben The 2nd wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Amusingly enough every pagan I know puts far more effort into their faith than most every Christian I've met.


Perhaps you could expand your search in an area wider then “cultural Christians”


Don't think I would need to, I have a pretty decent sample size already. There's a good 5-6 churches of various denominations (and a Mosque of some really obscure sect of Islam) in a 20 minute radius of my house.

It's actually kinda weird how many religious places are nearby tbh.

User avatar
Loben The 2nd
Minister
 
Posts: 2158
Founded: Apr 29, 2019
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Loben The 2nd » Thu May 16, 2019 12:06 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Loben The 2nd wrote:
Perhaps you could expand your search in an area wider then “cultural Christians”


Don't think I would need to, I have a pretty decent sample size already. There's a good 5-6 churches of various denominations (and a Mosque of some really obscure sect of Islam) in a 20 minute radius of my house.

It's actually kinda weird how many religious places are nearby tbh.


Eh, most pagans I’ve met are pagans because they are spiritually lazy, and are genuinely terrible people who are still ass mad over being treated like a turd being waffle stomped down a shower drain.
Eternal Lotharia wrote:You prioritize hatred of ideology over human rights. Fucking disgusting of you.

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Loben is a low tier poster who hardly represents Americans. He is pretty much an edgelord.

Satisfaction guaranteed.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11398
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Thu May 16, 2019 2:55 pm

Loben The 2nd wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Don't think I would need to, I have a pretty decent sample size already. There's a good 5-6 churches of various denominations (and a Mosque of some really obscure sect of Islam) in a 20 minute radius of my house.

It's actually kinda weird how many religious places are nearby tbh.


Eh, most pagans I’ve met are pagans because they are spiritually lazy, and are genuinely terrible people who are still ass mad over being treated like a turd being waffle stomped down a shower drain.

I take it you're fond of pagans.
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Loben The 2nd
Minister
 
Posts: 2158
Founded: Apr 29, 2019
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Loben The 2nd » Thu May 16, 2019 3:53 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Loben The 2nd wrote:
Eh, most pagans I’ve met are pagans because they are spiritually lazy, and are genuinely terrible people who are still ass mad over being treated like a turd being waffle stomped down a shower drain.

I take it you're fond of pagans.

Sarcasm I know but the exact opposite of fondness. A disdain, borderline immediate dismal attitude of them.
Eternal Lotharia wrote:You prioritize hatred of ideology over human rights. Fucking disgusting of you.

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Loben is a low tier poster who hardly represents Americans. He is pretty much an edgelord.

Satisfaction guaranteed.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11398
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Thu May 16, 2019 6:32 pm

Loben The 2nd wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:I take it you're fond of pagans.

Sarcasm I know but the exact opposite of fondness. A disdain, borderline immediate dismal attitude of them.

No way. You?
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Senator
 
Posts: 3775
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Thu May 16, 2019 7:21 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Certainly. And of course, i'm viewing this from the standpoint of dialectics. The end goal being "true communism", but market socialism is a very solid system.


Of course, market socialists don't agree among themselves. Ehere [typo edit: There] are many completing approaches to market socialism. Personally, I see little difference between many proposals for market socialism and social democracy.
Last edited by Democratic Communist Federation on Thu May 16, 2019 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 790
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Libertarian Police State

Postby First American Empire » Thu May 16, 2019 8:18 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:Personally, I see little difference between many proposals for market socialism and social democracy.


Me neither, which is why I like a lot of market socialist proposals even though I'm a social democrat.
The American Empire is a socially progressive and strongly anti-nationalist absolute monarchy ruled by the heirs of Emperor Norton.

This nation doesn't reflect my political views on many issues, especially monarchism and foreign policy. I'm an ordinary social democrat in real life.

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Reploid Productions
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 25887
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Reploid Productions » Thu May 16, 2019 8:46 pm

Loben The 2nd wrote:Was never fond of putting effort into faith were you?
Loben The 2nd wrote:Eh, most pagans I’ve met are pagans because they are spiritually lazy, and are genuinely terrible people who are still ass mad over being treated like a turd being waffle stomped down a shower drain.

Given your history, recent account deletion, and apparent steadfast refusal to adjust your conduct to fit within the site rules, we're skipping the nice-nice.

*** Loben, 7-day ban for trolling/flamebaiting. ***

You've already been erroneously presumed to be Delete-On-Sight by folks, and if you don't self-regulate your conduct, that's going to end up coming true.

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I believe in the magic of friendship, the wholly awesome bronydom, the conventions of fans,
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In nomine poni, et filly, et spiritus stable.
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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25919
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu May 16, 2019 8:49 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Painisia wrote:I think many Commies (including libertarian and utopian socialists) here in the LWDT view Nicolae Ceausescu as the biggest revisionist in the left-wing universe. He basically went turbo-fascist after he paid a visit to Kim Il-sung in 1971 and made Romania look like another Hoxhaist utopia.

The difference between Kim`s Juche and Eastern European Communism is that he implemented religious ideas (a divine leader) and militaristic nationalism into his ideological hotpot.

>Hoxhaist
>utopia
Image


>bunkers
>not the utopian dream

I'll fight you from my well-fortified concrete defensive position! >:c
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu May 16, 2019 10:43 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:Personally, I see little difference between many proposals for market socialism and social democracy.

That's because they're both better than Socialism.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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Cerinda
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Feb 18, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Cerinda » Fri May 17, 2019 2:20 am

Image


Image
Nation does not represent irl views.
Pro: Socialism, Anti-imperialism, Anti-Fascism, Worker's rights, Gun Rights, Republicanism, Left-Wing Populism, History, LGBTQ+, Military parades, Atheism, Secularism

Anti: Capitalism, Fascism, Monarchism, Far right Nationalism, Gun Control, Imperialism, NATO, Religion, Racism, Conservativism, Traditionalism
Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:As always, she and her inbred minions will be fine whilst the rest of us get our arseholes annexed by the might of the Tory thundercock.
Title: The People's Socialist Republic of Cerinda
Leader: Andrei Kamriov
Government: One Party Marxist-Leninist State under the control of the Communist Party
Capital: Kovograd


Will be posting again soon

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Duhon
Senator
 
Posts: 4105
Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Duhon » Fri May 17, 2019 2:24 am

The irony of going after the one segment of the population that really, really likes the institution of marriage, because cultural Marxism.

Also, lol at Immanuelsen.

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West Leas Oros 2
Minister
 
Posts: 2135
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri May 17, 2019 5:43 am

Cerinda wrote:


Some reactionary: *doesn't like something* REEEE MARXISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
West Leas Oros 2, Election Boogaloo (Please ignore the 2 in our name in all IC interactions)
WLO Public News: West Leas Oros now a sponsor of Leninade!
I killed the entire population of Vuvuzela by raising the minimum wage
Simultaneously an evil commie who wants to take your toothbrush, and an evil brocialist reactionary and revisionist.
An accurate description of NSG: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IQFU1y928dw

MP Arthur Woole in the NS Parliament

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West Leas Oros 2
Minister
 
Posts: 2135
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri May 17, 2019 5:44 am

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Certainly. And of course, i'm viewing this from the standpoint of dialectics. The end goal being "true communism", but market socialism is a very solid system.


Of course, market socialists don't agree among themselves. Ehere [typo edit: There] are many completing approaches to market socialism. Personally, I see little difference between many proposals for market socialism and social democracy.

True, but when someone advocates true market socialism, its quite uplifting.
West Leas Oros 2, Election Boogaloo (Please ignore the 2 in our name in all IC interactions)
WLO Public News: West Leas Oros now a sponsor of Leninade!
I killed the entire population of Vuvuzela by raising the minimum wage
Simultaneously an evil commie who wants to take your toothbrush, and an evil brocialist reactionary and revisionist.
An accurate description of NSG: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IQFU1y928dw

MP Arthur Woole in the NS Parliament

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri May 17, 2019 6:10 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Of course, market socialists don't agree among themselves. Ehere [typo edit: There] are many completing approaches to market socialism. Personally, I see little difference between many proposals for market socialism and social democracy.

True, but when someone advocates true market socialism, its quite uplifting.

But what is "true" market socialism?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Painisia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1596
Founded: Nov 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Painisia » Fri May 17, 2019 8:02 am

Torrocca wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:>Hoxhaist
>utopia
Image


>bunkers
>not the utopian dream

I'll fight you from my well-fortified concrete defensive position! >:c



Hoxhaist Albania, Ceasescu`s Romania, Kim`s Juche Korea is the most smexiest commie countries.
-Christian Democrat
-Syncretic
-Distributist
-Personalist
-Ecologism
-Popolarismo
-Corporatist
Formerly, the nation of Painisia November 2017 - August 2019

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New yugoslavaia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 793
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New yugoslavaia » Fri May 17, 2019 8:03 am

Hey, isn't the alt right trying to appropriate the LGBT flag? If so, should the left do the same with one of their things? Maybe the happy merchant or the bundle?
Yugoslavia's back baby...

How the hell did this happen?
Well, this happened because after a failed attempt at a corporatocracy, Serbia was left with a pseudo-nationalist government which was incompetent to say the least. Following a revolution, a slightly authoritarian social democracy was established. More nations were incorporated as time went on. Now it's slightly-self sustaining and technologic advanced.

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri May 17, 2019 8:06 am

New yugoslavaia wrote:Hey, isn't the alt right trying to appropriate the LGBT flag? If so, should the left do the same with one of their things? Maybe the happy merchant or the bundle?

Are you talking about the "take back the rainbow" clownworld thing? That's just a trash meme, not a dedicated attempt to reclaim the LGBT flag.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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