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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9515
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:52 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Global thermonuclear warfare will just lead to capitalism but with more radiation.

Have you considered P O S A D I S M

Hey Oros, long time no see, how are you doing?
Last edited by The Xenopolis Confederation on Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

User avatar
Evil Dictators Happyland
Senator
 
Posts: 3518
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:05 am

North German Realm wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:I'm 90% certain that the first societies built after global thermonuclear war will be quasi-feudal aristocracies created by one warlord managing to secure the loyalty of those under him/her as vassals, probably with a promise of elections that somehow never manage to happen.
Why promise elections when you have the guns and the food?

Ask the average African president-for-life why they keep promising elections.
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Global thermonuclear warfare will just lead to capitalism but with more radiation.

Anyone remember those "I support thermonuclear war, do you?" sigs?

Yeah, I always thought they were stupid.

User avatar
The Galactic Liberal Democracy
Minister
 
Posts: 2518
Founded: Jun 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:09 am

Proctopeo wrote:
Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
I doubt there will be a war in the usual sense. IMO, the revolution will be a result of global devastation (as was anticipated by Roy Bhaskar).

Global thermonuclear warfare will just lead to capitalism but with more radiation.

Actually, we can lead an economy that is not socialist or usual capitalism if enough people die.
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17220
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:39 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Global thermonuclear warfare will just lead to capitalism but with more radiation.

Have you considered P O S A D I S M
there's only one way to signal the fourth intergalactic
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

User avatar
The Galactic Liberal Democracy
Minister
 
Posts: 2518
Founded: Jun 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:44 am

Kubra wrote:there's only one way to signal the fourth intergalactic

Should we make the symbol nuke or dolphin shaped?
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:19 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
North German Realm wrote:Why promise elections when you have the guns and the food?

Ask the average African president-for-life why they keep promising elections.
I mean the Africans have more Democratic nations to look at and think "We want that". When you have to literally fight over food and farmingplaces with other packs of humans like how we came into existence, there're more important things to care about.
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12370
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:09 am

Valrifell wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Global thermonuclear warfare will just lead to capitalism but with more radiation.


"Guys, I know the last structure of society resulted in this irradiated hellhole which we find ourselves, but, let's do it again"

Hey, capitalism gets a second try if socialism gets a twentieth.
Arachno-anarchism || NO GODS NO MASTERS || Free NSG Odreria

User avatar
The Galactic Liberal Democracy
Minister
 
Posts: 2518
Founded: Jun 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:11 am

Proctopeo wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
"Guys, I know the last structure of society resulted in this irradiated hellhole which we find ourselves, but, let's do it again"

Hey, capitalism gets a second try if socialism gets a twentieth.

Capitalism has been tried more times than socialism by far.
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

User avatar
Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12370
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:12 am

The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Hey, capitalism gets a second try if socialism gets a twentieth.

Capitalism has been tried more times than socialism by far.

We're counting total failures, not total tries fyi
Arachno-anarchism || NO GODS NO MASTERS || Free NSG Odreria

User avatar
The Galactic Liberal Democracy
Minister
 
Posts: 2518
Founded: Jun 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:15 am

Proctopeo wrote:
The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:Capitalism has been tried more times than socialism by far.

We're counting total failures, not total tries fyi

‘Failure’ is an opinion, although laissez faire has failed as often as state socialism. Neither is desirable because they both have poor living conditions.
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27805
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:19 am

The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:We're counting total failures, not total tries fyi

‘Failure’ is an opinion, although laissez faire has failed as often as state socialism. Neither is desirable because they both have poor living conditions.


Lmao, are you kidding? America's Gilded Age (and everyone's industrial revolutions) were the pinnacle of Capitalist success! *sweeps massacred labor unionists and dead, diseased, or maimed workers under a rug*
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They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
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User avatar
Western Vale Confederacy
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9211
Founded: Nov 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:58 am

Torrocca wrote:
The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:‘Failure’ is an opinion, although laissez faire has failed as often as state socialism. Neither is desirable because they both have poor living conditions.


Lmao, are you kidding? America's Gilded Age (and everyone's industrial revolutions) were the pinnacle of Capitalist success! *sweeps massacred labor unionists and dead, diseased, or maimed workers under a rug*


*laughs in tortured and murdered clergy, widespread starvation, and little concern for the workers*

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27805
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:59 am

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Lmao, are you kidding? America's Gilded Age (and everyone's industrial revolutions) were the pinnacle of Capitalist success! *sweeps massacred labor unionists and dead, diseased, or maimed workers under a rug*


*laughs in tortured and murdered clergy, widespread starvation, and little concern for the workers*


Ah, yes, because I tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootally said those were good things. :roll:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:08 am

Torrocca wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
*laughs in tortured and murdered clergy, widespread starvation, and little concern for the workers*


Ah, yes, because I tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootally said those were good things. :roll:


No I think he was talking about the Revolutions of 1848 :p
Last edited by Valrifell on Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27805
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:10 am

Valrifell wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Ah, yes, because I tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootally said those were good things. :roll:


No I think he was talking about the Revolutions of 1848 :p


Image


He could also be talking about any general Fascist uprising, like Franco's rebellion or the Nazis. :3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58544
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:51 am

Valrifell wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Ah, yes, because I tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootally said those were good things. :roll:


No I think he was talking about the Revolutions of 1848 :p


Napoleon should never have made himself Emperor. I agree with Beethoven on the subject.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:55 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
No I think he was talking about the Revolutions of 1848 :p


Napoleon should never have made himself Emperor. I agree with Beethoven on the subject.


On one hand, he betrayed the Revolution to secure his personal glory and go down in history. On the other, he spread the the flames of Revolution across the continent.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58544
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:57 am

Valrifell wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Napoleon should never have made himself Emperor. I agree with Beethoven on the subject.


On one hand, he betrayed the Revolution to secure his personal glory and go down in history. On the other, he spread the the flames of Revolution across the continent.


The latter could be done without imperial titles or hereditary office.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:58 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
On one hand, he betrayed the Revolution to secure his personal glory and go down in history. On the other, he spread the the flames of Revolution across the continent.


The latter could be done without imperial titles or hereditary office.


Fair
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:01 am

Valrifell wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Napoleon should never have made himself Emperor. I agree with Beethoven on the subject.


On one hand, he betrayed the Revolution to secure his personal glory and go down in history. On the other, he spread the the flames of Revolution across the continent.

He kinda spread the flames of Strongman Soldier-monarchy across Europe. The exporting of the revolution kinda ended when he started creating his own Monarchies all over the continent.
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:07 am

North German Realm wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
On one hand, he betrayed the Revolution to secure his personal glory and go down in history. On the other, he spread the the flames of Revolution across the continent.

He kinda spread the flames of Strongman Soldier-monarchy across Europe. The exporting of the revolution kinda ended when he started creating his own Monarchies all over the continent.


There were still the Sister Republics for a while.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69943
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:09 am

[region-tag][/region-tag]
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
On one hand, he betrayed the Revolution to secure his personal glory and go down in history. On the other, he spread the the flames of Revolution across the continent.


The latter could be done without imperial titles or hereditary office.

^^^This.

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:10 am

Valrifell wrote:
North German Realm wrote:He kinda spread the flames of Strongman Soldier-monarchy across Europe. The exporting of the revolution kinda ended when he started creating his own Monarchies all over the continent.


There were still the Sister Republics for a while.

Which he either annexed or turned into monarchies, yes.
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
The Galactic Liberal Democracy
Minister
 
Posts: 2518
Founded: Jun 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:29 am

Genivaria wrote:[region-tag][/region-tag]
Ostroeuropa wrote:
The latter could be done without imperial titles or hereditary office.

^^^This.

I agree

[region-tag][/region-tag]
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58544
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:33 am

Genivaria wrote:[region-tag][/region-tag]
Ostroeuropa wrote:
The latter could be done without imperial titles or hereditary office.

^^^This.


Even adopting "Dictator" in the roman style would have been better, though not ideal. 6 month terms and so on.

Maybe with stronger constitutional limitations, like, "2/3rds of the senate needed to overule dictats.", in order to ensure a commitment to the war effort.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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