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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6945
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:12 pm

Byzconia wrote:
Greater Westralia wrote:What he did was teach his dog to do a Hitler salute. It was a complete and utter non-issue.

"It didn't personally affect me, therefore it doesn't matter."

"I'm triggered that someone would make a joke."
China Lied, People Died.
Anti-imperialism is really code for anti-west.
Not to be confused with Novus America! We are NOT the same player.

User avatar
Greater Westralia
Envoy
 
Posts: 227
Founded: Nov 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Westralia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:13 pm

Byzconia wrote:"It didn't personally affect me, therefore it doesn't matter."

It didn't affect anyone particularly, unless you make a habit of being easily offended or buy into the slippery slope fallacy.
Unapologetic WA Supremacist

We did it once, we'll do it again!

User avatar
Byzconia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1123
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:13 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Byzconia wrote:His intent is completely irrelevant. We can't prove what he "intended," we can only prove what he did (not that I particularly give a shit what his intent was anyway).

He said that his intent was to turn the dog evil to prank his Girlfriend. His intent was obvious, unless you actually believe that anyone who dares make a joke should be subjected to the boot of the law.

So fucking sick of edgelords and "Libertarians" hiding shitty behavior behind "it's just a joke, brah!" Even if that weren't a completely bullshit excuse, it still wouldn't fucking matter because being an asswipe isn't magically justified by calling it a joke (anymore than it's magically justified by calling it a "political belief").
Populist social democrat. Share Our Wealth! Every man a king!

"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read: 'All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy." - Abraham Lincoln

9Axes

User avatar
Byzconia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1123
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:14 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Byzconia wrote:"It didn't personally affect me, therefore it doesn't matter."

"I'm triggered that someone would make a joke."

"I have no argument, so #TRIGGERED, stupid libcom cuck!"
Populist social democrat. Share Our Wealth! Every man a king!

"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read: 'All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy." - Abraham Lincoln

9Axes

User avatar
Byzconia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1123
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:15 pm

Greater Westralia wrote:
Byzconia wrote:"It didn't personally affect me, therefore it doesn't matter."

It didn't affect anyone particularly, unless you make a habit of being easily offended or buy into the slippery slope fallacy.

"Making light of the mass murder of millions of innocent people affects no one."
Populist social democrat. Share Our Wealth! Every man a king!

"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read: 'All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy." - Abraham Lincoln

9Axes

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6945
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:15 pm

Byzconia wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:He said that his intent was to turn the dog evil to prank his Girlfriend. His intent was obvious, unless you actually believe that anyone who dares make a joke should be subjected to the boot of the law.

So fucking sick of edgelords and "Libertarians" hiding shitty behavior behind "it's just a joke, brah!" Even if that weren't a completely bullshit excuse, it still wouldn't fucking matter because being an asswipe isn't magically justified by calling it a joke (anymore than it's magically justified by calling it a "political belief").

I'm sorry I have the radical idea that free speech should apply to asswipes who make stupid jokes.
China Lied, People Died.
Anti-imperialism is really code for anti-west.
Not to be confused with Novus America! We are NOT the same player.

User avatar
Bienenhalde
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5426
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Bienenhalde » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:16 pm

He broke the law and he got punished for what he did. Why is this such a big deal anyway?
Bienenhalde (mostly) represents my real political views.
https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=75.6&d=68.6&g=38.8&s=45.2
OOC:
[*]Age: 24 [*]Pennsylvania Dutch [*]ELCA Lutheran [*]Male [*]Bisexual - leaning towards gay [*]Independent [*]Sinophile-Japanophile [*]Monarchist [*]Has Asperger's

User avatar
Uiiop
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5804
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Uiiop » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:16 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Byzconia wrote:"It didn't personally affect me, therefore it doesn't matter."

"I'm triggered that someone would make a joke."

It's just a joke. Not a framing that makes something inherently harmless or not.
Some pranks can be horrible. Not enough information has given in this convo that actually proves whether this pranks has or wasn't.
I mean, i do believe in "innocent until gulity" so i'm not saying he should have been fined or anything but only that y'all are bad at giving the proper context or reasoning.

User avatar
Byzconia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1123
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:17 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Byzconia wrote:So fucking sick of edgelords and "Libertarians" hiding shitty behavior behind "it's just a joke, brah!" Even if that weren't a completely bullshit excuse, it still wouldn't fucking matter because being an asswipe isn't magically justified by calling it a joke (anymore than it's magically justified by calling it a "political belief").

I'm sorry I have the radical idea that free speech should apply to asswipes who make stupid jokes.

I'm sorry I have the radical idea that mass murder isn't fucking funny. Although I don't know what else I should expect from the guy who literally said, "Pinochet did nothing wrong!" :roll:
Populist social democrat. Share Our Wealth! Every man a king!

"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read: 'All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy." - Abraham Lincoln

9Axes

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60834
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liriena » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:17 pm

New haven america wrote:>:3


The only good first post ever.

Anyway, circling back to "brocialist", because I have nothing better to do right now and I feel like being a ponderous oaf, I almost felt like equating the term with "TERF" in terms of how accurate its definition as a "slur" is... but then it came to me that that's not fair.

I'd say "brocialist" is kinda stuck in the grey area between "overused slur sometimes hurled in one form of other at anyone to the left of Clinton in bad faith" and "useful shorthand for identifying an actual problem in many left-wing circles". I don't think it's unfair to say that some left-wing circles do suffer from having a very... umm... monolithic demographic and, thus, a very limited perspective on social and cultural that feeds on economic reductionism, which in turns justifies that limited perspective. No joke, I actually got a couple not-at-all-mad DMs from one on Reddit a couple days back, and in true brocialist fashion, they combined their whining about "idpol" with ableist slurs and tinges of homophobia.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6362
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:17 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Byzconia wrote:So fucking sick of edgelords and "Libertarians" hiding shitty behavior behind "it's just a joke, brah!" Even if that weren't a completely bullshit excuse, it still wouldn't fucking matter because being an asswipe isn't magically justified by calling it a joke (anymore than it's magically justified by calling it a "political belief").

I'm sorry I have the radical idea that free speech should apply to asswipes who make stupid jokes.

I'm sorry that I have the radical idea that rightists should be silenced, joking or otherwise
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76677
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:18 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:He broke the law and he got punished for what he did. Why is this such a big deal anyway?

It's a silly application of the law. Even though Count Dankula is an alt-right cuck, he doesn't deserve to get fined for making his dog a wee Nazi.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Byzconia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1123
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:18 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:He broke the law and he got punished for what he did. Why is this such a big deal anyway?

Because middle class white dudes are more deserving of sympathy than millions of dead minorities.
Populist social democrat. Share Our Wealth! Every man a king!

"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read: 'All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy." - Abraham Lincoln

9Axes

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60834
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liriena » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:18 pm

Wait... are we litigating the Count Dankula thing again?
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9979
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:18 pm

*sniff* Smells like... revolution.

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6945
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:18 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:He broke the law and he got punished for what he did. Why is this such a big deal anyway?

Because a good chunk of people don't blindly kiss the government's ass.
China Lied, People Died.
Anti-imperialism is really code for anti-west.
Not to be confused with Novus America! We are NOT the same player.

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26912
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Torrocca » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:18 pm

Friendos pls, argue as you please but the excessive text-resizing is too much. We don't need mod action for silly shit on page two.
Communist now and forever.
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - [b]Buenaventura Durruti

"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6362
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:19 pm

Torrocca wrote:Friendos pls, argue as you please but the excessive text-resizing is too much. We don't need mod action for silly shit on page two.

what utter twaddle
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Byzconia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1123
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:20 pm

Crysuko wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I'm sorry I have the radical idea that free speech should apply to asswipes who make stupid jokes.

I'm sorry that I have the radical idea that rightists should be silenced, joking or otherwise

I would argue against this. I have plenty of right-leaning friends who aren't racist pieces of shit.
Populist social democrat. Share Our Wealth! Every man a king!

"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read: 'All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy." - Abraham Lincoln

9Axes

User avatar
First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 809
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby First American Empire » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:20 pm

Torrocca wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Damn right.


"Right"? YOU STRAY FROM THE MEDIAN. INCONSEQUENTIAL SHAME IS YOURS FOR HALF OF YOUR LIFE NOW.

Byzconia wrote:"Never trust a Neutral, Kif." - Zapp Branigan. Those words have stuck with me always.


Zapp Brannigan is a hero, I tell you what.


You know who else was a centrist? Thanos.
The American Empire is a socially progressive and strongly anti-nationalist absolute monarchy ruled by the heirs of Emperor Norton.

This nation doesn't reflect my political views on many issues, especially monarchism and foreign policy. I'm an ordinary social democrat in real life.

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26912
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Torrocca » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:20 pm

Crysuko wrote:
Torrocca wrote:Friendos pls, argue as you please but the excessive text-resizing is too much. We don't need mod action for silly shit on page two.

what utter twaddle


cry no
Communist now and forever.
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - [b]Buenaventura Durruti

"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Greater Westralia
Envoy
 
Posts: 227
Founded: Nov 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Westralia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:20 pm

Byzconia wrote:"Making light of the mass murder of millions of innocent people affects no one."

It's an incredible stretch to connect a dog doing a Roman Salute (to be pedantically precise) to making fun of genocide.

Let me guess, all that Allied propaganda depicting Hitler and Nazis as stupid fools and bumbling idiots was making fun of Holocaust.
Unapologetic WA Supremacist

We did it once, we'll do it again!

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:20 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Byzconia wrote:So fucking sick of edgelords and "Libertarians" hiding shitty behavior behind "it's just a joke, brah!" Even if that weren't a completely bullshit excuse, it still wouldn't fucking matter because being an asswipe isn't magically justified by calling it a joke (anymore than it's magically justified by calling it a "political belief").

I'm sorry I have the radical idea that free speech should apply to asswipes who make stupid jokes.

FREE SPEECH BAD
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26912
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Torrocca » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:20 pm

First American Empire wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
"Right"? YOU STRAY FROM THE MEDIAN. INCONSEQUENTIAL SHAME IS YOURS FOR HALF OF YOUR LIFE NOW.



Zapp Brannigan is a hero, I tell you what.


You know who else was a centrist? Thanos.


Why is half of my body suddenly missing?
Communist now and forever.
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - [b]Buenaventura Durruti

"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Byzconia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1123
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:21 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:He broke the law and he got punished for what he did. Why is this such a big deal anyway?

Because a good chunk of people don't blindly kiss the government's ass.

"Following laws I don't agree with is 'blindly kissing the government's ass.'" Yeah, fuck rule of law, amiright, guys!?
Populist social democrat. Share Our Wealth! Every man a king!

"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read: 'All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy." - Abraham Lincoln

9Axes

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