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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
Cappuccina
Minister
 
Posts: 2256
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:50 pm

Pacomia wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:Not a fan of it, tbh. To me it's like capitalism with a bandage on it.

Democratic socialism is like socialism with a company on it.

I mean, not really.
Muslim, Female, Not white..... oppression points x3!!!!
Automobile fan!!! ^_^
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

وحاربهم حتى لم يعد هناك فتنة ، والعبادة ستكون كلها لله وحده.

User avatar
Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4501
Founded: May 23, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pacomia » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:51 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
Pacomia wrote:Democratic socialism is like socialism with a company on it.

I mean, not really.

Yeah, true. Couldn’t think of a good simile.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
CURRENT HDI: 0.87547 (similar to Malta)
Also known as Dollar Store Kowani_________#EternalLotharia2020

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1639
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:57 pm

Pacomia wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:I mean, not really.

Yeah, true. Couldn’t think of a good simile.

I think it's like a tangerine.
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5755
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:05 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:What do you think of social democracy?

Not a fan of it, tbh. To me it's like capitalism with a bandage on it.

Maybe you are a socialist, but just expressing a unique form of it.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
Cappuccina
Minister
 
Posts: 2256
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:08 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:Not a fan of it, tbh. To me it's like capitalism with a bandage on it.

Maybe you are a socialist, but just expressing a unique form of it.

I guess, like I said though, I don't really identify with socialism other than mutual opposition to capitalism. I generally like to avoid ideological labels.
Muslim, Female, Not white..... oppression points x3!!!!
Automobile fan!!! ^_^
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

وحاربهم حتى لم يعد هناك فتنة ، والعبادة ستكون كلها لله وحده.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11334
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:37 pm

Electic wrote:How were you all introduced to Left Wing ideology?

The interblag was where I first came across real left-wing stuff (socialism, etc.). I read The Communist Manifesto, agreed with it, and promptly became an anarchist. Those were in my younger days, though. I used to laugh at /r/neoliberal, now I'd fit in.
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Electic
Envoy
 
Posts: 337
Founded: Aug 10, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Electic » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:38 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Electic wrote:How were you all introduced to Left Wing ideology?

The interblag was where I first came across real left-wing stuff (socialism, etc.). I read The Communist Manifesto, agreed with it, and promptly became an anarchist. Those were in my younger days, though. I used to laugh at /r/neoliberal, now I'd fit in.

How do you feel about that realization?
I'm a proud member of the Dark Light Family

User avatar
Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4501
Founded: May 23, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pacomia » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:38 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
Pacomia wrote:Yeah, true. Couldn’t think of a good simile.

I think it's like a tangerine.

Mmm, tangerines...
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
CURRENT HDI: 0.87547 (similar to Malta)
Also known as Dollar Store Kowani_________#EternalLotharia2020

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11334
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:39 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
Pacomia wrote:Yeah, true. Couldn’t think of a good simile.

I think it's like a tangerine.

Democratic socialism is to glorious Marxism-Leninism as unripe bananas are to wild plantains.
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11334
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:39 pm

Electic wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:The interblag was where I first came across real left-wing stuff (socialism, etc.). I read The Communist Manifesto, agreed with it, and promptly became an anarchist. Those were in my younger days, though. I used to laugh at /r/neoliberal, now I'd fit in.

How do you feel about that realization?

Sexier and more modern.
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:44 pm

Electic wrote:How were you all introduced to Left Wing ideology?

I was first introduced to left-liberal type ideology by a Youtuber called CuteFuzzyWeasel back when I was 14, he helped me realize there was nothing wrong with being gay.

As for actual Socialism, I probably first heard about it from biographies of Orwell, and from learning about the Soviet Union. Before long I'd come to the conclusion I preferred capitalism. I was in a libertarian phase when I skimmed the Communist Manifesto, and disagreed with it, but learned from it.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1639
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:46 pm

Electic wrote:How were you all introduced to Left Wing ideology?

"The Communists Have the Music" by They Might Be Giants

From there, I began listening unironically to Red Army Choir music, and then read Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto. Obviously I no longer hold socialist beliefs, but that's what got me to where my beliefs are now from *shudders* libertarianism
Last edited by Jean-Paul Sartre on Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:48 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
Electic wrote:How were you all introduced to Left Wing ideology?

"The Communists Have the Music" by They Might Be Giants

From there, I began listening unironically to Red Army Choir music, and then read Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto. Obviously I no longer hold socialist beliefs, but that's what got me to where my beliefs are now from *shudders* libertarianism

Oi! What's wrong with libertarianism?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1639
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:49 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:"The Communists Have the Music" by They Might Be Giants

From there, I began listening unironically to Red Army Choir music, and then read Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto. Obviously I no longer hold socialist beliefs, but that's what got me to where my beliefs are now from *shudders* libertarianism

Oi! What's wrong with libertarianism?

Ayn Rand, Ron Paul, and Stefan Molyneux.
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5755
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:51 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oi! What's wrong with libertarianism?

Ayn Rand, Ron Paul, and Stefan Molyneux.

Is it because they're too extreme on their free marketism?
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16584
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:51 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oi! What's wrong with libertarianism?

Ayn Rand, Ron Paul, and Stefan Molyneux.

Where’s that awesome quotes thread?
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1639
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:52 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Ayn Rand, Ron Paul, and Stefan Molyneux.

Is it because they're too extreme on their free marketism?

It's because their ideology is pointless. "Muh Freedom"

But why freedom?
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25898
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:53 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oi! What's wrong with libertarianism?

Ayn Rand, Ron Paul, and Stefan Molyneux.


Don't forget Murray Rothbard and his Child Slave CircusTM, coming soon to a free market near you.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:53 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oi! What's wrong with libertarianism?

Ayn Rand, Ron Paul, and Stefan Molyneux.

While cringe inducing, those individuals aren't representative of all libertarianism.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16584
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:54 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Is it because they're too extreme on their free marketism?

It's because their ideology is pointless. "Muh Freedom"

But why freedom?

Freedom is of no inherent value.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
Cappuccina
Minister
 
Posts: 2256
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:55 pm

Kowani wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:It's because their ideology is pointless. "Muh Freedom"

But why freedom?

Freedom is of no inherent value.

I... actually... agree. :blink:
Muslim, Female, Not white..... oppression points x3!!!!
Automobile fan!!! ^_^
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

وحاربهم حتى لم يعد هناك فتنة ، والعبادة ستكون كلها لله وحده.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11334
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:56 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oi! What's wrong with libertarianism?

Ayn Rand, Ron Paul, and Stefan Molyneux.

Tbf Molyneux isn't really representative of your typical right-libertarianism. The others are true, though.
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Electic
Envoy
 
Posts: 337
Founded: Aug 10, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Electic » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:56 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Electic wrote:How do you feel about that realization?

Sexier and more modern.

Very insightful. I think the journey of discovering your beliefs is half the fun.

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:I was first introduced to left-liberal type ideology by a Youtuber called CuteFuzzyWeasel back when I was 14, he helped me realize there was nothing wrong with being gay.

As for actual Socialism, I probably first heard about it from biographies of Orwell, and from learning about the Soviet Union. Before long I'd come to the conclusion I preferred capitalism. I was in a libertarian phase when I skimmed the Communist Manifesto, and disagreed with it, but learned from it.

I encountered Orwell in middle school as well, though that led me down the Ayn Rand path. Now that was a phase :P Would you say you're still libertarian?

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
Electic wrote:How were you all introduced to Left Wing ideology?

"The Communists Have the Music" by They Might Be Giants

From there, I began listening unironically to Red Army Choir music, and then read Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto. Obviously I no longer hold socialist beliefs, but that's what got me to where my beliefs are now from *shudders* libertarianism

Military marches had a real attraction for me as a history buff, even now. I don't know how well they affected my politics, but I do still love a good rolling drum beat.
I'm a proud member of the Dark Light Family

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:56 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Is it because they're too extreme on their free marketism?

It's because their ideology is pointless. "Muh Freedom"

But why freedom?

Because freedom is good, and very important. Without freedom, people get hurt.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11334
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:57 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:It's because their ideology is pointless. "Muh Freedom"

But why freedom?

Because freedom is good, and very important. Without freedom, people get hurt.

authoritarians: but why is getting hurt bad tho
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

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