NationStates

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:

Crysuko wrote:And yet the rightists crow about how popular they're getting. I wonder how much of it is just blind vanity, the desire to say that they're more popular. More influential.

Please note that "rightist" is a vague term. We're not all Nazis or do we all come even close to Nazi doctrine.

When the Nazis rise, you all fall in line.

Crysuko wrote:

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Please note that "rightist" is a vague term. We're not all Nazis or do we all come even close to Nazi doctrine.

When the Nazis rise, you all fall in line.

To be fair, a lot of people do.

Crysuko wrote:

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Please note that "rightist" is a vague term. We're not all Nazis or do we all come even close to Nazi doctrine.

When the Nazis rise, you all fall in line.

Tell that to the Anti-Nazi conservatives and other anti-Nazi right wingers who were purged during the Night of The Long Knives. We don't all "fall in line."

Crysuko wrote:

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:That comes as no surprise. I mean, I'm sure the overwhelming majority of the populace doesn't want to start Holocaust 2.0 or anything like that. Even with immigration issues, I doubt any Nazi parties will gain power. Golden Dawn is a Neo-Nazi group that was a rising star in Greek politics for example, but now the trend is reversing. The 2019 election just resulted in all of their seats being lost in the Greek legislature.

And yet the rightists crow about how popular they're getting. I wonder how much of it is just blind vanity, the desire to say that they're more popular. More influential.

Identitarians and right-wing populists have gone from cringe-fringe to a force to be reckoned with in the past years. In many cases they have become the White Elephant in the room of european politics.

Nakena wrote:

Crysuko wrote:And yet the rightists crow about how popular they're getting. I wonder how much of it is just blind vanity, the desire to say that they're more popular. More influential.

Identitarians and right-wing populists have gone from cringe-fringe to a force to be reckoned with in the past years. In many cases they have become the White Elephant in the room of european politics.

This ^^

Kowani wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:The alt-right isn't shrinking as a result of the Trump presidency, why would you think that?

The growth of the far-right is still going on. In Germany they've overtaken Merkels party in a few areas. In general in fact they're a growing movement.

Yeah, it was quite obvious that we were talking about the US.

If you think it's dead in the US you aren't paying attention either.

Portlands mayor for instance has all but ceded the city to a far-right rally on august 17th, and polling indicates the normalization of far-right viewpoints on a number of topics.

Beyond that you've also got the normalization of a general anti-idpol left sentiment on issues like feminism and anti-white racism and so on.

I don't know what you're basing this on. Is it the triumphalism of the media claiming victory over their enemies? That's the same thing that caused the Trump upset in the first place. The polls indicate precisely the opposite.

"Immigration" ranks as the most important issue to americans as of 30th of june. Healthcare is also up there, the two trade places frequently.

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:

Crysuko wrote:When the Nazis rise, you all fall in line.

Tell that to the conservatives and other anti-Nazi right wingers who were purged during the Night of The Long Knives.

Good point.

Aaaalso... if the immigration situation ever hits the fan (which it might someday in a number of euro countries, specifically France) a whole lot of liberals and even left-wingers will snddely move towards the radical right and become the most aggressive, most reckless, nasty opponents of immigration ever.

In fact no little number of right-wing populists are, in fact, former liberals (or conservatives) turned really angry, rogue and all around nasty.

When normies get mad...

Ostroeuropa wrote:

Kowani wrote:Yeah, it was quite obvious that we were talking about the US.

If you think it's dead in the US you aren't paying attention either.

Portlands mayor for instance has all but ceded the city to a far-right rally on august 17th,

You mean he followed the Constitution?

and polling indicates the normalization of far-right viewpoints on a number of topics.

Could we stop confusing the far right and the alt-lite? It makes it quite hard to have a conversation about this.

Beyond that you've also got the normalization of a general anti-idpol left sentiment on issues like feminism and anti-white racism and so on.

Yeah, this is what we call the alt-lite.

I don't know what you're basing this on. Is it the triumphalism of the media claiming victory over their enemies? That's the same thing that caused the Trump upset in the first place. The polls indicate precisely the opposite.

Sigh.

Ostroeuropa wrote:"Immigration" ranks as the most important issue to americans as of 30th of june. Healthcare is also up there, the two trade places frequently.

You realize that isn’t actually proof of the far right rising up.

The mainstream left portraying all of this as evidence of the far-right rising up and claiming it's all racism/sexism and so on means functionally the conversation we're having is a different one.

I'm inclined to agree with you when you properly frame it, but i'd also say the alt-right then never really had all that influence in the first place and Trump hasn't managed to do anything to lose them their shot.

Nakena wrote:

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Tell that to the conservatives and other anti-Nazi right wingers who were purged during the Night of The Long Knives.

Good point.

Aaaalso... if the immigration situation ever hits the fan (which it might someday in a number of euro countries, specifically France) a whole lot of liberals and even left-wingers will snddely move towards the radical right and become the most aggressive, most reckless, nasty opponents of immigration ever.

In fact no little number of right-wing populists are, in fact, former liberals (or conservatives) turned really angry, rogue and all around nasty.

When normies get mad...

See Kristallnacht for a prime example of this

Crysuko wrote:

Nakena wrote:
Good point.

Aaaalso... if the immigration situation ever hits the fan (which it might someday in a number of euro countries, specifically France) a whole lot of liberals and even left-wingers will snddely move towards the radical right and become the most aggressive, most reckless, nasty opponents of immigration ever.

In fact no little number of right-wing populists are, in fact, former liberals (or conservatives) turned really angry, rogue and all around nasty.

When normies get mad...

See Kristallnacht for a prime example of this

Which demonstrates that the Nazis were evil. That was carried out by the SA and pro-Nazi civilians.

Crysuko wrote:See Kristallnacht for a prime example of this

Kristallnacht was an organized pogrom by Goebbels and Hitler and mostly conducted by the SA.

Its description as "public and spontanous outburst of popular anger" is literal NSDAP propaganda.

Nakena wrote:

Crysuko wrote:See Kristallnacht for a prime example of this

Kristallnacht was an organized pogrom by Goebbels and Hitler and mostly conducted by the SA.

Its description as "public and spontanous outburst of popular anger" is literal NSDAP propaganda.

My point being to stop these people getting into power, so we don't get another one pogrom such as this

Crysuko wrote:

Nakena wrote:
Kristallnacht was an organized pogrom by Goebbels and Hitler and mostly conducted by the SA.

Its description as "public and spontanous outburst of popular anger" is literal NSDAP propaganda.

My point being to stop these people getting into power, so we don't get another one pogrom such as this

To do that, follow Sweden's example, and start imposing moderate immigration restrictions. This won't appease the hardcore fascist activists, but it would appease the people, and result in Nazis not having any grievance to campaign on, and losing.

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:

Crysuko wrote:My point being to stop these people getting into power, so we don't get another one pogrom such as this

To do that, follow Sweden's example, and start imposing moderate immigration restrictions. This won't appease the hardcore fascist activists, but it would appease the people, and result in Nazis not having any grievance to campaign on, and losing.

As a strategic move to prevent the far right gaining traction, I can agree to that.

Crysuko wrote:

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Please note that "rightist" is a vague term. We're not all Nazis or do we all come even close to Nazi doctrine.

When the Nazis rise, you all fall in line.

That's untrue.

Crysuko wrote:

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:To do that, follow Sweden's example, and start imposing moderate immigration restrictions. This won't appease the hardcore fascist activists, but it would appease the people, and result in Nazis not having any grievance to campaign on, and losing.

As a strategic move to prevent the far right gaining traction, I can agree to that.

A strategic move and something to fix the problem with immigrants not assimilating.

Crysuko wrote:

Nakena wrote:
Kristallnacht was an organized pogrom by Goebbels and Hitler and mostly conducted by the SA.

Its description as "public and spontanous outburst of popular anger" is literal NSDAP propaganda.

My point being to stop these people getting into power, so we don't get another one pogrom such as this

Next time it happens in the United States. For its very own special reasons which keep piling up increasingly.

Nakena wrote:

Crysuko wrote:My point being to stop these people getting into power, so we don't get another one pogrom such as this

Next time it happens in the United States. For its very own special reasons which keep piling up increasingly.

Most of which include people blaming immigrants for all their problems.

Kowani wrote:

Nakena wrote:
Next time it happens in the United States. For its very own special reasons which keep piling up increasingly.

Most of which include people blaming immigrants for all their problems.

There's plenty of right leaning militias and republicans who would be more than happy to organise and execute such an act

Looks like we're almost ready for the 8th iteration. Don't think I'll OP that one, this time around (like I said a while back), so, uh... somebody feel free to take charge? Hold a quick vote for a new OP? I dunno.

Torrocca wrote:Looks like we're almost ready for the 8th iteration. Don't think I'll OP that one, this time around (like I said a while back), so, uh... somebody feel free to take charge? Hold a quick vote for a new OP? I dunno.

Maybe I'll do it, depending on anyone else's input

Torrocca wrote:Looks like we're almost ready for the 8th iteration. Don't think I'll OP that one, this time around (like I said a while back), so, uh... somebody feel free to take charge? Hold a quick vote for a new OP? I dunno.

I'd say holding a poll over it is probably the smarter idea, but honestly I doubt we can reach an accord in the next, what, 4-5 pages?

North German Realm wrote:

Torrocca wrote:Looks like we're almost ready for the 8th iteration. Don't think I'll OP that one, this time around (like I said a while back), so, uh... somebody feel free to take charge? Hold a quick vote for a new OP? I dunno.

I'd say holding a poll over it is probably the smarter idea, but honestly I doubt we can reach an accord in the next, what, 4-5 pages?

It'd just end up being an ego thing.