NationStates

Kubra wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Tbf 80% of the world also has drastically lower costs of living than we do.

sure, insofar as they lack creature comforts we take for granted. For instance, air conditioning; shits expensive, both to buy and maintain.
I mean, It's not expensive for me, at all, but other people, like the family back in the old country.

Do you know how much air conditioning matters, or are you some northern germanic barbarian?

I'm a Celtic barbarian thank you very much

We do have AC but we live in WA so it's not super necessary most of the time so it doesn't break the bank.

In semi-unrelated news, shit like this continues to give me a helluva lot of hope. Just look at how genuinely enthusiastic and supportive these people are of Bernie. It's amazing.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Kubra wrote: sure, insofar as they lack creature comforts we take for granted. For instance, air conditioning; shits expensive, both to buy and maintain.
I mean, It's not expensive for me, at all, but other people, like the family back in the old country.

Do you know how much air conditioning matters, or are you some northern germanic barbarian?

I'm a Celtic barbarian thank you very much

We do have AC but we live in WA so it's not super necessary most of the time so it doesn't break the bank.

WA? Oh yeah, northern barbarian. Ya don't know struggle, bruv.
Jokes aside, you see what i'm getting at. $10 a day just doesn't buy what we got, and what we got is super nice. We can just have AC for the couple warm months and let it rot the rest of em.
Like yo places in the world have separate air-conditioned transit that people pay extra for and let me tell ya the extra 50 cents is definitely worth it

Torrocca wrote:

Kowani wrote:Hey, that’s just for the US. Things are different in other countries.

Obviously, but still. The US is one of the most developed countries in the world, so it's not hard to imagine that conditions are worse elsewhere, or better in the cases of those few countries that don't treat their workers as little more than cattle.

Hyperbole to the max comrade!!!

Torrocca wrote:In semi-unrelated news, shit like this continues to give me a helluva lot of hope. Just look at how genuinely enthusiastic and supportive these people are of Bernie. It's amazing.

Bernie is shit, not even a real socialist.

Cappuccina wrote:

Torrocca wrote:In semi-unrelated news, shit like this continues to give me a helluva lot of hope. Just look at how genuinely enthusiastic and supportive these people are of Bernie. It's amazing.

Bernie is shit, not even a real socialist.

Bernie's literally America's best option at getting things fixed for the better right now. That's far more important than holding the dude up to overly-stringent, precise standards.

Torrocca wrote:

Cappuccina wrote:
Bernie is shit, not even a real socialist.

Bernie's literally America's best option at getting things fixed for the better right now. That's far more important than holding the dude up to overly-stringent, precise standards.

neither bernie or trump but international socialism
cmon man shoot for the stars, you'll at least hit the moon

Torrocca wrote:

Cappuccina wrote:
Bernie is shit, not even a real socialist.

Bernie's literally America's best option at getting things fixed for the better right now. That's far more important than holding the dude up to overly-stringent, precise standards.

Realistically Bernie wouldn't be able to do much of anything.

Kubra wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
Bernie's literally America's best option at getting things fixed for the better right now. That's far more important than holding the dude up to overly-stringent, precise standards.

neither bernie or trump but international socialism
cmon man shoot for the stars, you'll at least hit the moon

We're not gonna have a very good time shooting for la internationale if we don't have positive reinforcers and role models to motivate the masses into genuine leftism tbqh.

Torrocca wrote:

Kubra wrote: neither bernie or trump but international socialism
cmon man shoot for the stars, you'll at least hit the moon

We're not gonna have a very good time shooting for la internationale if we don't have positive reinforcers and role models to motivate the masses into genuine leftism tbqh.

ah yes, the ol' "we need strong social democracy so we can shit on social democracy"
I may sound snide, but I'm really not, it's really worthwhile sentiment. I mean that's truly how the big radical parties of the 20th century got going.
Still tho someones gotta carry the banner of radical radicalism, no? If not us, who?

Torrocca wrote:

Cappuccina wrote:
Bernie is shit, not even a real socialist.

Bernie's literally America's best option at getting things fixed for the better right now. That's far more important than holding the dude up to overly-stringent, precise standards.

All we'd get is another idiot in the white house, no one that gets to the big time in Washington is going to actually be worth their beans in office. People are literally wasting effort and stressing out over elections that don't make a single iota of difference from one candidate to the next.

Cappuccina wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
Bernie's literally America's best option at getting things fixed for the better right now. That's far more important than holding the dude up to overly-stringent, precise standards.

All we'd get is another idiot in the white house, no one that gets to the big time in Washington is going to actually be worth their beans in office. People are literally wasting effort and stressing out over elections that don't make a single iota of difference from one candidate to the next.

Material conditions matter. Electing Bernie Sanders President would result in better material conditions for the people.

Kubra wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
We're not gonna have a very good time shooting for la internationale if we don't have positive reinforcers and role models to motivate the masses into genuine leftism tbqh.

ah yes, the ol' "we need strong social democracy so we can shit on social democracy"
I may sound snide, but I'm really not, it's really worthwhile sentiment. I mean that's truly how the big radical parties of the 20th century got going.
Still tho someones gotta carry the banner of radical radicalism, no? If not us, who?

IDK about you, but I certainly don't see how we're gonna just magically get enough people on board with the revolution in any near future. Going full accelerationist is just going to needlessly get too many innocent people hurt along the way. Shit hasn't quite hit the destitute, dystopic levels needed to spur the masses into action. This is, right now, the best chance to accomplish something. Maybe it won't be much, or whatever, but it's better than nothing.

Cappuccina wrote:All we'd get is another idiot in the white house, no one that gets to the big time in Washington is going to actually be worth their beans in office. People are literally wasting effort and stressing out over elections that don't make a single iota of difference from one candidate to the next.

What's the alternative? Fantasise over a revolution that's not going to happen?

I know the Nordics are very different to America, but at least they show that it's possible to create meaningful reforms democratically in the face of aristocratic and landowner resistance.

Page wrote:

Cappuccina wrote:All we'd get is another idiot in the white house, no one that gets to the big time in Washington is going to actually be worth their beans in office. People are literally wasting effort and stressing out over elections that don't make a single iota of difference from one candidate to the next.

Material conditions matter. Electing Bernie Sanders President would result in better material conditions for the people.

Would it really though? How is he going to rally the entire party to his cause? What of the Senate, and it likely remaining Republican?

Page wrote:

Cappuccina wrote:All we'd get is another idiot in the white house, no one that gets to the big time in Washington is going to actually be worth their beans in office. People are literally wasting effort and stressing out over elections that don't make a single iota of difference from one candidate to the next.

Material conditions matter. Electing Bernie Sanders President would result in better material conditions for the people.

No, it literally won't. He'll never get elected in the first place, he's spoiled milk as far as the so called "left" in this country is concerned, he's white, and old.

Cappuccina wrote:

Page wrote:
Material conditions matter. Electing Bernie Sanders President would result in better material conditions for the people.

No, it literally won't. He'll never get elected in the first place, he's spoiled milk as far as the so called "left" in this country is concerned, he's white, and old.

Is that why so many on the left are turning to him, rather than against him? Or are these just your preconceived notions regarding his electability? Because the polls by and large show that people love Bernie.

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:

Cappuccina wrote:All we'd get is another idiot in the white house, no one that gets to the big time in Washington is going to actually be worth their beans in office. People are literally wasting effort and stressing out over elections that don't make a single iota of difference from one candidate to the next.

What's the alternative? Fantasise over a revolution that's not going to happen?

I know the Nordics are very different to America, but at least they show that it's possible to create meaningful reforms democratically in the face of aristocratic and landowner resistance.

Honestly, I'm not committed to the idea of violent revolution in itself, it's not necessary just yet. All I'm saying is out current options are pretty bottom barrel as far as anyone actually able to gain a good post in the government, let alone the POTUS. We have people dedicated to obsolete ideas (most GOP) or cooky nutjobs like "the squad", the Democrats are washed up with no charisma for shit too.

Torrocca wrote:

Cappuccina wrote:No, it literally won't. He'll never get elected in the first place, he's spoiled milk as far as the so called "left" in this country is concerned, he's white, and old.

Is that why so many on the left are turning to him, rather than against him? Or are these just your preconceived notions regarding his electability? Because the polls by and large show that people love Bernie.

He's nearly consistently the most popular among the democratic candidates. If the Democrats are going to elect someone though, I'm worried they'll make the same mistake they did in 2016 and elect the less-popular establishment option and pick Biden. Hopefully they won't though.

North German Realm wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
Is that why so many on the left are turning to him, rather than against him? Or are these just your preconceived notions regarding his electability? Because the polls by and large show that people love Bernie.

He's nearly consistently the most popular among the democratic candidates. If the Democrats are going to elect someone though, I'm worried they'll make the same mistake they did in 2016 and elect the less-popular establishment option and pick Biden. Hopefully they won't though.

Fucking Biden. I'm honestly not going to be too shocked if he somehow wins by playing up the Obama nostalgia, but my hope for anything good will definitely be shattered if that does happen. Hopefully, though, people will be smarter about the election this time through.

Soviet schoolchildren were taught this song, and I gotta say, it's pretty good.

Talking about the US again? Ignorant foreigner here who thinks America more desperately needs a social Democrat than a woke lifestyle-liberal whose defining feature is being loudly from a minority, a symbol of progress just by being in power. Depending on the nominee, you'll get one or the other with a few rhetorical totem policies to try and make it sound like they're also committed to the other wing's politics.

Obama was okay and much better than Trump but systematic issues aren't solved by being a smiley media trained smooth talker who routinely gives "if by whiskey" style non-answers to any fundamental question. You're against oppression and you want people worldwide to be happy and full of love? That's nice, but politics isn't Miss World.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
Bernie's literally America's best option at getting things fixed for the better right now. That's far more important than holding the dude up to overly-stringent, precise standards.

Realistically Bernie wouldn't be able to do much of anything.

He’d still be substantially better than who we currently have in office.

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Realistically Bernie wouldn't be able to do much of anything.

He’d still be substantially better than who we currently have in office.

Probably not.

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Talking about the US again? Ignorant foreigner here who thinks America more desperately needs a social Democrat than a woke lifestyle-liberal whose defining feature is being loudly from a minority, a symbol of progress just by being in power. Depending on the nominee, you'll get one or the other with a few rhetorical totem policies to try and make it sound like they're also committed to the other wing's politics.

Obama was okay and much better than Trump but systematic issues aren't solved by being a smiley media trained smooth talker who routinely gives "if by whiskey" style non-answers to any fundamental question. You're against oppression and you want people worldwide to be happy and full of love? That's nice, but politics isn't Miss World.

The thing is here in America concepts like social democracy ring the layman's "but dats gommunist" alarm. I'd like for some actual variety in our candidates, but that's not gonna happen, our political scene is fossilized into generic Republicans and generic Democrats.

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Realistically Bernie wouldn't be able to do much of anything.

He’d still be substantially better than who we currently have in office.

If he lacked a cooperative Senate, which he almost certainly would, then he really wouldn't be due to sheer gridlock and an inability to pass anything.

Though tbh I don't think that would entirely be a bad thing. Much as Trump's presidency helped kill the alt-right maybe an equally ineffective Sanders presidency could kneecap the left.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:He’d still be substantially better than who we currently have in office.

If he lacked a cooperative Senate, which he almost certainly would, then he really wouldn't be due to sheer gridlock and an inability to pass anything.

Though tbh I don't think that would entirely be a bad thing. Much as Trump's presidency helped kill the alt-right maybe an equally ineffective Sanders presidency could kneecap the left.

It might slow them down however I am pretty sure of the far-right we may only have experienced their primary form and first wave. With the seeds planted already and starting to bear their evil fruits.