NATION

PASSWORD

LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44957
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:03 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Kowani wrote:So, how do you feel about transitioning away from coal?

It should be done incrementally rather than all at once, as Pasong Tirad suggests.

You realize that doesn’t actually solve the problem-and the timescale makes that idea a terrible one regardless.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12370
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:06 pm

Whatever the solution is, it needs to involve nuclear power. And more funding to fusion research.
Arachno-anarchism || NO GODS NO MASTERS || Free NSG Odreria

User avatar
Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:09 pm

Kowani wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:It should be done incrementally rather than all at once, as Pasong Tirad suggests.

You realize that doesn’t actually solve the problem-

How so?
and the timescale makes that idea a terrible one regardless.

The timing is not ideal, certainly. I would prefer the coal industry to have entered a decline in the 60s or prior, but that is not feasible.

But coal is not comparable to advertising anyway, due to the vast differences in long-term and multi-species harm that they cause.
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

User avatar
Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:10 pm

Proctopeo wrote:Whatever the solution is, it needs to involve nuclear power. And more funding to fusion research.

Absolutely. Rabid anti-nuclear activists stopping that from happening are a huge part of why our environment is so shitty.
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

User avatar
Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12370
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:12 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Whatever the solution is, it needs to involve nuclear power. And more funding to fusion research.

Absolutely. Rabid anti-nuclear activists stopping that from happening are a huge part of why our environment is so shitty.

And some have the audacity to call anti-nuclear policies "green"!
Arachno-anarchism || NO GODS NO MASTERS || Free NSG Odreria

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58536
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:15 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Whatever the solution is, it needs to involve nuclear power. And more funding to fusion research.

Absolutely. Rabid anti-nuclear activists stopping that from happening are a huge part of why our environment is so shitty.


The anti-nuclear lobby was an early example of memetic warfare. They were a soviet plot.

I'm not joking. They were actively supported and funded by the USSR.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44957
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:20 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Kowani wrote:You realize that doesn’t actually solve the problem-

How so?
At the end of the day, you’ve set a gargantuan amount of people into unemployment. Although spreading it out over several decades (if that was possible) does mitigate some of the damage to the overall society, the individual worker is not as benefited.
and the timescale makes that idea a terrible one regardless.

The timing is not ideal, certainly. I would prefer the coal industry to have entered a decline in the 60s or prior, but that is not feasible.
Damn capitalism.
But coal is not comparable to advertising anyway, due to the vast differences in long-term and multi-species harm that they cause.
…You’re aware of the negative effects advertising has on a society, right?
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27792
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:53 pm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Nakena
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:59 pm


User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27792
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:01 pm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17203
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:19 pm

Those are real people, in exchange for shilling they get out of the warehouse and pretty much just make inane tweets (with air conditioning!)
I mean, if I were a poor sod working at Amazon, it'd be a hard opportunity to pass up.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27792
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:22 pm

Kubra wrote:
Those are real people, in exchange for shilling they get out of the warehouse and pretty much just make inane tweets (with air conditioning!)
I mean, if I were a poor sod working at Amazon, it'd be a hard opportunity to pass up.


It makes me feel slightly better on the inside to believe they're automatons, and not real people who sold their souls to a corporation that doesn't give a shit about them just so they don't have to endure a heatstroke in the warehouses.

It's less depressing that way.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44957
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:30 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Kubra wrote: Those are real people, in exchange for shilling they get out of the warehouse and pretty much just make inane tweets (with air conditioning!)
I mean, if I were a poor sod working at Amazon, it'd be a hard opportunity to pass up.


It makes me feel slightly better on the inside to believe they're automatons, and not real people who sold their souls to a corporation that doesn't give a shit about them just so they don't have to endure a heatstroke in the warehouses.

It's less depressing that way.

To close your eyes to their suffering does not alleviate that suffering, but I think you know that.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17203
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:36 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Kubra wrote: Those are real people, in exchange for shilling they get out of the warehouse and pretty much just make inane tweets (with air conditioning!)
I mean, if I were a poor sod working at Amazon, it'd be a hard opportunity to pass up.


It makes me feel slightly better on the inside to believe they're automatons, and not real people who sold their souls to a corporation that doesn't give a shit about them just so they don't have to endure a heatstroke in the warehouses.

It's less depressing that way.
Hey one might hate uncle toms but better in the house than in the field, no? Natural stuff.
Come now, who can say they haven't done something somewhat dubious at work? I used to make commission, there's a real ethical black hole.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27792
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:37 pm

Kowani wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
It makes me feel slightly better on the inside to believe they're automatons, and not real people who sold their souls to a corporation that doesn't give a shit about them just so they don't have to endure a heatstroke in the warehouses.

It's less depressing that way.

To close your eyes to their suffering does not alleviate that suffering, but I think you know that.


Of course, and obviously that this is happening does nothing to alleviate my rage against capitalism in general, but even I need an occasional break from the misery that comes with it all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44957
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:40 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Kowani wrote:To close your eyes to their suffering does not alleviate that suffering, but I think you know that.


Of course, and obviously that this is happening does nothing to alleviate my rage against capitalism in general, but even I need an occasional break from the misery that comes with it all.

Of course. :hug:

And the economic crisis looming on the horizon just helps put all of this in perspective.
Last edited by Kowani on Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Trotskylvania
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17217
Founded: Jul 07, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Trotskylvania » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:56 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:Policy time:

Ban TV adverts for a company that has over 10 million pounds value. It'll certainly liven up the adverts to have the slots open to whatever crap your local maniacs and small businessfolk are trying to sell. Big companies can fund their own campaigns by other means.

Also changes the "Bottom line" calculations for television and means their revenue is based on small businesses instead of large ones demanding they push a pro-corporate line.

Promotes more market competition and so on too.

How do you stop them from playing a shell game of subsidiaries to comply with the letter of the law?

No half measures, Walter
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in Posadism


"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27792
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:58 pm

Kowani wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Of course, and obviously that this is happening does nothing to alleviate my rage against capitalism in general, but even I need an occasional break from the misery that comes with it all.

Of course. :hug:

And the economic crisis looming on the horizon just helps put all of this in perspective.


It really does though. And, of course, the Capitalists are gonna get away with fucking us over scot-free once again, unless this crisis is enough to spur people into action.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9474
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:00 pm

Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17203
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:01 pm

the existence of PR is what drives my fascination with dynamite
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9474
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:01 pm

Kubra wrote:
Those are real people, in exchange for shilling they get out of the warehouse and pretty much just make inane tweets (with air conditioning!)
I mean, if I were a poor sod working at Amazon, it'd be a hard opportunity to pass up.

They're not real people. Or at least, they're not who they say they are. An account named Rafael accidentally called himself Michelle in one of his tweets.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44957
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:02 pm


…What even is this.

Goddamnit, Nak was right.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17203
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:03 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Kubra wrote: Those are real people, in exchange for shilling they get out of the warehouse and pretty much just make inane tweets (with air conditioning!)
I mean, if I were a poor sod working at Amazon, it'd be a hard opportunity to pass up.

They're not real people. Or at least, they're not who they say they are. An account named Rafael accidentally called himself Michelle in one of his tweets.
They are real in the sense that flesh and blood types it, not necessarily in its representation.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27792
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:04 pm



It's time to seize the means of production, comrade.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9474
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:13 pm

Kowani wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Maybe Communism is correct...

…What even is this.

Goddamnit, Nak was right.

Right about what?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aadhiris, Ethel mermania, Hidrandia, Ineva, Keltionialang, Kostane, Plan Neonie, Shrillland, Talibanada, Taosun, Trump Almighty, Tungstan, Zetaopalatopia

Advertisement

Remove ads