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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5249
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:04 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Left and right critics of neoliberalism unite!

Where shall we draw the partition line on our shares of Poland?

It always puts me in a difficult position when the far right and the far left both criticize neoliberalism, because I have no love for neoliberalism, and yet, seeing both these forms of collectivists rag on it, makes me want to defend it.

If you defend it then both me and OEP will take jabs
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

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Totally Not OEP
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1335
Founded: Mar 30, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totally Not OEP » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:04 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Left and right critics of neoliberalism unite!

Where shall we draw the partition line on our shares of Poland?


Poland is a sacred American ally, and my intention is for this to be the future of it:

Image
Last edited by Totally Not OEP on Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Totally Not OEP
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1335
Founded: Mar 30, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totally Not OEP » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:05 am

Crysuko wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:It always puts me in a difficult position when the far right and the far left both criticize neoliberalism, because I have no love for neoliberalism, and yet, seeing both these forms of collectivists rag on it, makes me want to defend it.

If you defend it then both me and OEP will take jabs


Brown-Red Alliance: Because fuck Neoliberalism

User avatar
GLDF
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 63
Founded: Aug 13, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby GLDF » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:09 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Left and right critics of neoliberalism unite!

Where shall we draw the partition line on our shares of Poland?

I'm not either, and fuck totalitarianism.

But, by the modern definition, neoliberalism is still awful for the Dems.
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Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5249
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:11 am

Totally Not OEP wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Left and right critics of neoliberalism unite!

Where shall we draw the partition line on our shares of Poland?


Poland is a sacred American ally, and my intention is for this to be the future of it:

Image

Unlikely, to put it mildly.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Totally Not OEP
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1335
Founded: Mar 30, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totally Not OEP » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:28 am

I posted this in RWDT the other day, but ya'll might like it as well:
This question of what happens next is thus central to the economy’s trajectory. Without the productivity gain, nothing happens. Workers able to produce more than before, for whatever reason, is the sine qua non of economic progress. But only if accompanied by rising output are the effects for workers undeniably positive.

Historically, that has been the dynamic. From 1947 to 1972, for instance, economy-wide productivity roughly doubled. But output surged as well and, at the end of the period, the same share of the population was working and men’s wages were up 86%. In the manufacturing sector, productivity rose by 3.4% annually, but real value added rose by 4.2% annually; employment during the period rose by more than three million.

Compare that period to the 21st century, when America has lost nearly five million manufacturing jobs. Was any of this because of extraordinary technological breakthroughs that caused productivity to surge, allowing firms to do much more with many fewer workers? No. In fact, the average rate of productivity growth in manufacturing this century has been 3.1%—lower than 1947–72 and no different than 1972–2000. But output growth has been only 1.3%, less than a third the rate of the earlier period. We’ve gone from the world where firms use a doubling of productivity to double output, to one where they use it to lay off half their workers. Had output growth this century equaled that of 1950–2000, manufacturing employment today would be near an all-time high.

So when policymakers blame automation for job losses, they are looking in the wrong place. Productivity gains have always been with us—in fact, they used to come faster. If anything, the American economy is suffering from insufficient automation—as reflected in declining productivity growth, stagnant wages, and remarkably little use of robots. American manufacturers use only 200 industrial robots per 10,000 workers, the standard measure of adoption. In both Germany and Japan, that level exceeds 300. In South Korea, it exceeds 700. With greater automation and higher productivity, American firms would likely be more competitive in the international economy.

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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40369
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:34 am

Totally Not OEP wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Left and right critics of neoliberalism unite!

Where shall we draw the partition line on our shares of Poland?


Poland is a sacred American ally, and my intention is for this to be the future of it:

Image


Blimey that's a big boy Poland. He's been working out.
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New yugoslavaia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 687
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New yugoslavaia » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:56 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Totally Not OEP wrote:
Poland is a sacred American ally, and my intention is for this to be the future of it:

Image


Blimey that's a big boy Poland. He's been working out.


The Alt-Lite's wet dream.

Don't worry, you can trust me. I used to fly with them.
Yugoslavia's back baby...

How the hell did this happen?
Well, this happened because after a failed attempt at a corporatocracy, Serbia was left with a pseudo-nationalist government which was incompetent to say the least. Following a revolution, a slightly authoritarian social democracy was established. More nations were incorporated as time went on. Now it's slightly-self sustaining and technologic advanced.

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Nakena
Senator
 
Posts: 4185
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:00 am

Crysuko wrote:
Totally Not OEP wrote:
And that noise has utterly shaken the globe. Duterte, Putin, Trump, Brexit, etc all shook the globe and no, this isn't an endorsement of any in particular, but illustrative of the overall fact of what has done the most to shock the establishment; It certainly wasn't #Occupy or the Greek Socialists, for example.

Putin is acting in self interest as opposed to ideology, Trump is a hollow populist and Brexit is a clusterfuck no matter who you ask. Occupy was ostensibly liberal, and Siriza are socdems larping as tankies. Just thought I'd drag your head out of the clouds for a moment.


The only point of those things was to throw and shock the world into chaos and wreck the pre-existing post neoliberal order to pave the political landscape for things to come. Most of them have already outlived their usefulness at this point to varying degrees.
Last edited by Nakena on Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 56639
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:38 am

Great Minarchistan wrote:
Liriena wrote:Ah yes, Macri's excuse: it's everybody else's fault. Nevermind that we were, in fact, far better off under the Kirchners. And curse y'all for making me say that aloud.

guys we be better when gubmint make up stats and freeze prices xd

yes
be gay do crime


I am:
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An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
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For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
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Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10197
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:04 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Left and right critics of neoliberalism unite!

Where shall we draw the partition line on our shares of Poland?

It always puts me in a difficult position when the far right and the far left both criticize neoliberalism, because I have no love for neoliberalism, and yet, seeing both these forms of collectivists rag on it, makes me want to defend it.

Neoliberalism is a complex thing with many good aspects and some glaringly bad aspects. There's no right or wrong answer.
\begin{center}
NationStates should support \LaTeX
\end{center}
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

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Great Minarchistan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5799
Founded: Jan 08, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Great Minarchistan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:45 am

Totally Not OEP wrote:
Crysuko wrote:If you defend it then both me and OEP will take jabs


Brown-Red Alliance: Because fuck Neoliberalism

imagine being against neoliberalism
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Great Minarchistan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5799
Founded: Jan 08, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Great Minarchistan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:46 am

Liriena wrote:
Great Minarchistan wrote:guys we be better when gubmint make up stats and freeze prices xd

yes

this is why argentina cant get nice things
Awarded for Best Capitalist in 2018 NSG Awards ;')
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Fmr. libertarian, irredeemable bank shill and somewhere inbetween classical liberalism and neoliberalism // Political Compass: +8.75 Economic, -2.25 Social (May 2019)

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 56639
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:10 am

Great Minarchistan wrote:
Liriena wrote:yes

this is why argentina cant get nice things

Well, yeah, it is. Every time we've given liberalism (principled or otherwise) a shot since 1983 has ended in disaster. The Kirchnerist years, even with all of the corruption and bad policies, were still our best years since the end of the last dictatorship. I have the luxury of being able to vote on principle without having to worry that I'm killing myself in the process, but when push comes to shove, a majority of Argies can't afford that.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 51533
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:20 am

Grrr realpolitik.

Bored of people not understanding the Melian dialogue.

The Melian dialogue is the sign that the decline of Athens is almost complete. At the beginning of the story it comes from, Athens is a hegemon that takes justice seriously (for its time), but as their power becomes threatened they begin to see justice as a weakness and a ploy by their enemies to trick them. In the beginning of the book Athens debates whether to do to another city what they eventually do to Melos, and one of the orators points out them even having this debate represents the moral decline of Athens and its insecurity over its position, the fact they even have to consider whether doing the right thing will weaken them suggests they have reached a point where being weakened might spell their doom and that they have no room to maneuver, though ultimately they vote not to do it and to instead do the right thing.

By the end of the book, there is no debate, they simply think it has to happen to Melos and vote for it. Far from Athens thinking that being brutal pragmatists will scare the other cities into line, it signals to them that Athens is weak and barely surviving, and that is why it cannot afford "Luxuries" like justice which it did at the peak of its power. It also motivates their citizens to fight Athens for justice's sake. The Melian dialogue is in story telling terms the end of Athens character arc from a "Just" empire to an evil one, and their doom shortly follows, the point of the book is to argue that Realpolitik is a sign of an insecure empire losing its hegemony and scrambling to keep it. It directly contrasts the earlier dialogue to show how far Athens had fallen into being the villain of the story, despite starting out as the hero.

If you think it's a debate between two opposing political ideologies, you're not understanding the story. The fact that the consequences of Athens doing this is that it unites the greek world against them is kind of a hint that the Athenians were wrong, guys. Instead of losing a war and a few vassals and becoming one of many powers in a multilateral rather than unilateral setting, their entire empire is destroyed and they never recover, becoming a minor player in a game played by other nations.

It's a badass line, the whole, "The strong do as they will, and the weak suffer what they must". Because it's the line that hammers home the fall of Athens into villainy. The drama of the line is there to signal a point of being beyond redemption and the completion of their character arc in a start of darkness story.
The actual political point of the exchange is the Melian response;

"Since you enjoin us to leave 'right' alone and talk only of interest, you should not destroy what is our common protection. The privilege of being allowed in danger to invoke what is fair and right and yes even to profit by such arguments where they hold true. You are as much interested in this as any, lest the fall of your empire be a prelude to the heaviest vengeance, and an example for the world to meditate on."

and

"Do you consider there is no security in the policy which you indicate? If you bar us from appealing to justice and demand we obey your interest, then we must also explain ours, and try to persuade you that the two may be aligned. How can you avoid making enemies of all the world who shall look at the case you have made here today and conclude that one day, you shall attack them? What is this other than to make greater the number of your enemies than your friends?"

Athens uses tortured logic to argue that to show strength they need to dominate people who hate them and wish them harm, so that others who hate them and wish them harm will think twice before rebelling or invading, when Melos replies they do not hate the Athenians nor wish them harm, Athens responds that they will once they dominate them. It's supposed to show how circular and irrational Athens is behaving, creating enemies everywhere in order to defeat them and keep them subjugated.

The Athenians say they are dispensing with pretense because they don't wish to insult the Melians, that they could make up reasons to justify what they are doing but know they would be a lie, and in exchange they want the Melians not to insult them back by appealing to what is right but to instead "lay bare both of our real sentiments", but then express confusion and shock at the Melians refusal to see the logic of the Athenian position, demonstrating that Athens simultaneously believes the Melians are lying and trying to trick them by appealing to justice, but also for some reason refusing to best possible deal they can expect from realpolitik, which Athens cannot comprehend, because they have already concluded that the Melians are also operating on pure realpolitik and attempts to talk about what is right are merely rhetoric to obscure their actual demands. The Melian refusal is not a victory of realpolitik. It is a demonstration that a state operating on realpolitik cannot comprehend states which do not and perceives everything as a threat to itself, and will constantly miscalculate until its eventual destruction. By choosing to die rather than submit, the Melians demonstrate realpolitik does not work because not everyone operates on realpolitik.

The Melians talk about fairness and the Athenians respond "But you are outnumbered, so independence isn't an option" in confusion because the Athenians construe the "Fairness" talk to be "It is in our interests to remain independent". Athens has become so degraded by realpolitik that they can no longer understand other city states or their people. Athens scoffs at the notion Melos will be avenged for similar reasons, suggesting that if any cities felt they had something to profit by the war against Athens they would have already joined, and certainly wont do so after Melos is destroyed and the war is even further in Athens' favor.

Athens' triumphant declaration that the strong do as they will and the weak suffer what they must comes only AFTER they claim that nature proves they are right and the gods will side with them and Athens has nothing to fear. (Again, the story ends with the destruction of Athens).

And so on. It's supposed to be a tale about the decline of an empire and its final stages.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:06 am, edited 13 times in total.
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First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 681
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Libertarian Police State

Postby First American Empire » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:14 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Left and right critics of neoliberalism unite!

Where shall we draw the partition line on our shares of Poland?


I call dibs on Krakow.
The American Empire is a socially progressive and strongly anti-nationalist absolute monarchy ruled by the heirs of Emperor Norton.

Formerly Second Empire of America.

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Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10197
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:48 am

Schedule changed, so I finished Macri Curb. https://gfycat.com/enviousashamedamethystgemclam
\begin{center}
NationStates should support \LaTeX
\end{center}
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
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right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

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Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
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Founded: May 06, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:54 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Left and right critics of neoliberalism unite!

Where shall we draw the partition line on our shares of Poland?

Poles are bros of the highest order. I think this time we partition Germany instead since honestly it lost its soul when Prussia died.
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.
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Pacomia
Minister
 
Posts: 3199
Founded: May 23, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Pacomia » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:58 am

Eh, I think Poland is a borderline autocracy (or could slide into one concerningly quickly and easily) that’s currently not really a country I would want to be associated if I ran the U.S.. Doesn’t help that they’re cheating the system of the EU.
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Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem
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Nova Cyberia
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:01 am

Pacomia wrote:Eh, I think Poland is a borderline autocracy (or could slide into one concerningly quickly and easily) that’s currently not really a country I would want to be associated if I ran the U.S.. Doesn’t help that they’re cheating the system of the EU.

The EU is a hive of neoliberals and deserves to be cheated.

As for the US, it's not really like we have much of a problem being associated with autocracies. After all, we created many of them in our time when we had to continuously remind our friends south of the border that their shitty socialist governments suck.
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.
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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 56639
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:03 am

Cekoviu wrote:Schedule changed, so I finished Macri Curb. https://gfycat.com/enviousashamedamethystgemclam

I love you :hug:
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 51533
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:29 am

While we're at it, it's fucking astounding that realpolitik types reference the Melian dialogue in isolation, given that one of the exchanges is Athens mocking Melos for "Knowing the minds of others and the future and trusting in that which is uncertain, rather than the certainty of what is right before their eyes." (I.E, the athenian fleet), which is about how Athens views each interaction as seperate from others and in isolation, a series of deals and power plays devoid of any context but the relative power of the participants, and cannot comprehend how their behavior here would impact the way others see them except in terms of athens getting more powerful and demonstrating what happens to those who defy them. What relevance to Macedon how the Athenians treat Melos? It is not their concern or interest.


It's kind of insane that the bit of the story everyone remembers is the Melian dialogue, when a part of that dialogue is "Haha, you're focused on what happens next, i'm focusing on the here and now and that's while i'm going to win.", and forgets what happens immediately after this scene.

Again.

The story ends with the destruction of athens.

You're... you're understanding the book wrong!

Athens loses its empire, pisses far too much gold and manpower up the wall, and the disaster even leads to general panic, rioting, and the fall of their democracy into oligarchy.

Fucking *Persia* even dogpiles them and sides with Sparta. Sparta.

Protip:

Do not openly declare your plans for world conquest and how you are only ever an ally of convenience who will knife former allies in the back and annex them when it is their turn and how you think everything is a series of power plays with no sense of right or wrong and how just murdering everyone in case they rebel is actually more stable if they don't agree you should be in charge, oh and by the way if a vassal ever looks like it might start becoming too powerful, murder all of them too, for security purposes. Are you getting all this, scribe? Yeah, make sure everyone gets a copy of our new foreign policy.

This is not, in fact, how most countries operate. We're not trying to trick you, we're not lying. This isn't a ploy to trick you into not pursuing the above policy while secretly we are. If it were, why would everyone go mental the moment you dispense with the "ruse" of morality and be like "What the FUCK mate?!" and focus on taking you down. (This has happened multiple times in history by now.).

It's kind of sad that 2400 years of plan "Let's murder everybody" failing still hasn't demonstrated it's a bad plan.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:07 pm, edited 12 times in total.
New Sig, who dis?
Patriarchy theory is a valid academic theory, not incel tier psychological abuse which maps on to any situation a woman doesn't like and enables them to rationalize a hostility to men, we swear.
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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24964
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:11 pm

Cekoviu wrote:Schedule changed, so I finished Macri Curb. https://gfycat.com/enviousashamedamethystgemclam


Okay, now that's fucking awesome.
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"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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Soviet Tankistan
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 403
Founded: Mar 27, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Soviet Tankistan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:11 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Pacomia wrote:Eh, I think Poland is a borderline autocracy (or could slide into one concerningly quickly and easily) that’s currently not really a country I would want to be associated if I ran the U.S.. Doesn’t help that they’re cheating the system of the EU.

The EU is a hive of neoliberals and deserves to be cheated.

As for the US, it's not really like we have much of a problem being associated with autocracies. After all, we created many of them in our time when we had to continuously remind our friends south of the border that their shitty socialist governments suck.

Showing them by killing everyone, destroying their belongings, and leaving some dubiously qualified warlord to rule over a once democratic nation.
☭Welcome to Soviet Tankistan!☭
In Soviet Tankistan, everyone is considered a worker if they contribute. Fascists and terrorists are not welcome.


Humanity, Socialism, Order Political Compass: 8 left and 1 upwards.

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Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 3990
Founded: May 06, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:13 pm

Soviet Tankistan wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:The EU is a hive of neoliberals and deserves to be cheated.

As for the US, it's not really like we have much of a problem being associated with autocracies. After all, we created many of them in our time when we had to continuously remind our friends south of the border that their shitty socialist governments suck.

Showing them by killing everyone, destroying their belongings, and leaving some dubiously qualified warlord to rule over a once democratic nation.

Democracy has no inherent value when the people elect morons who destroy their economies and try to cozy up with the Soviets. We literally did nothing wrong.
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.
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American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

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