LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[First American Empire]

And a catastrophe.

I think FAE means that all of Syria should become like Rojava.

I did. Under the same government. It's not perfect, but it's easily better than any of the other alternatives. Pasong Triad explained my views on in better than I could:

That can be done by federalizing Syria, and having the many states governed from the bottom-up under the principles of democratic confederalism. It wouldn't exactly be giving Syria to the Kurds, but giving Syria to Bookchin's and Öcalan's political visions.

[First American Empire]

Both are being protected by states, even if they aren't ruled by them. The Zapatistas are protected from foreign invasion by Mexico, which so far has been content to let them stay anarchist, but would still mobilize troops against any invasion of its de jure territory. Rojava is allied with the United States, and when it went up against Turkey (a different US ally), the US remained neutral and Rojava lost terribly.

A state is always necessary for protection from invasion by other states; it just technically doesn't have to rule all the territory it protects. The only way anarchism can succeed is through military alliances with non-anarchists. (For the record, I think allying with anarchists like Rojava is a good thing.)

Look up how the Zapatistas have seen their education and medical establishments completely collapse lol.

That has nothing to do with anything I just said.

[Pasong Tirad]

I think FAE means that all of Syria should become like Rojava.

I did. Under the same government. It's not perfect, but it's easily better than any of the other alternatives. Pasong Triad explained my views on in better than I could:

That can be done by federalizing Syria, and having the many states governed from the bottom-up under the principles of democratic confederalism. It wouldn't exactly be giving Syria to the Kurds, but giving Syria to Bookchin's and Öcalan's political visions.

I believe the Assad regime has been cautiously open towards the idea of federalizing Syria, mainly because Russia is keen on pushing the idea in order to stabilize the region, but I doubt many of the component states save for North and East Syria would allow themselves to be governed the way Rojava is governed today. It'll probably turn up the same with other federal countries.

[Nakena]

TBH I am somewhat sympathic to Rojava but I have the ungood feeling that many things might hearsay, romanticized portrayals filled with projections of an utopia and possibly propaganda. So I am somewhat cautious about the matter.

[Totally Not OEP]

Look up how the Zapatistas have seen their education and medical establishments completely collapse lol.

That has nothing to do with anything I just said.

It completely matches what you said because not only do Anarchist societies fail at protecting themselves, they completely fail at basics of statecraft like having a literate population and basic medical care.

[Pasong Tirad]

TBH I am somewhat sympathic to Rojava but I have the ungood feeling that many things might hearsay, romanticized portrayals filled with projections of an utopia and possibly propaganda. So I am somewhat cautious about the matter.

Welcome to basically what half of the left is also saying about NES.

[Nakena]

TBH I am somewhat sympathic to Rojava but I have the ungood feeling that many things might hearsay, romanticized portrayals filled with projections of an utopia and possibly propaganda. So I am somewhat cautious about the matter.

Welcome to basically what half of the left is also saying about NES.

I missed out the NES, I remember the SNES though.

[Pasong Tirad]

Welcome to basically what half of the left is also saying about NES.

I missed out the NES, I remember the SNES though.

*North and East Syria.

[Nakena]

I missed out the NES, I remember the SNES though.

*North and East Syria.

The problem with Rojava/NES and also the Zapatista is that most information about it circulating is being written by usually relatively well-off western left-winged activist (or activist-journalists) who are more likely than not to project their own romanticized ideas and ideals onto the subject.

[North German Realm]

*North and East Syria.

The problem with Rojava/NES and also the Zapatista is that most information about it circulating is being written by usually relatively well-off western left-winged activist (or activist-journalists) who are more likely than not to project their own romanticized ideas and ideals onto the subject.

About Rojava, there's also the fact that the place is a literal warzone of multiple warring ideologies so you literally can't trust any word that comes from the place (because it's almost consistently biased for one side or the other)

[Pasong Tirad]

*North and East Syria.

The problem with Rojava/NES and also the Zapatista is that most information about it circulating is being written by usually relatively well-off western left-winged activist (or activist-journalists) who are more likely than not to project their own romanticized ideas and ideals onto the subject.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that the information coming out of Syria's mostly written by westerners, much of the news sites I trawl are English Kurdish, Turkish, and other Middle Eastern websites. Biased, most likely. Written by well-off Western leftists? Hardly.

[Dumb Ideologies]

It's a relatively small band of idiots being used to stereotype a much larger group who have considerably more nuanced, though of course often still dodgy, views. Same as with throwing the word "fascist" about like it's cheap sweeties at Halloween. Even when people focus on the actual people who most closely resemble the meme, it'll be used as a stick to make sweeping and false generalisations.

It's deliberately alarmist babble and twaddle, an overgrown social media communications strategy that's escaped the medium, where each side's meme factory constantly competes to frighten the centrists into picking their side by waving a cardboard cutout caricature of the other side.

The moment anyone starts talking about mainstream figures or movements in the West being SJWs or fascists I tune out, because I'm about to witness shitness.

Doesn't matter if its a minority, they're in power.

https://i.redd.it/xeqew4ufdrx21.png

It's not alarmism if supporting their movement will actually result in nutters taking over policy.

You may as well say it's a small band of idiots ruining the republican party and Mitch McConnel and other anarcho-capitalist nutters shouldn't be used to judge the people who routinely empower them.

The notion that some random fuckers have "Nuance" like you claim is as absurd as taking some moron who claims they are a neo-Nazi seriously when they say they aren't a racist, because they listened to adolf hitler talk about germany and the fatherland and making it strong for germans, but They're the REAL Nazi, because jews are also germans and genocide makes germany weaker so all those poser Nazis who support genocide aren't real Nazis.

It involves taking willfully self-deluded people seriously. You shouldn't. You should laugh at them, mock them, and tell them if they insist on being so ridiculous and pretending to themselves that a swastika isn't a hate symbol, they're not allowed in the building.

Any feminist is such a person. Any idpol leftist is too, given the propensity to side with feminists and others like them.

You say its "Nuance.".

It isn't nuance, it's useful idiocy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

(I literally don't know a non-derogatory term for describing this phemomanae. I disavow the derogatoriness while supporting the overall observation.).

"Hyuk hyuk, it's about a strong germany equality. The others (The actual leaders of our movement with authority and the people who institute policy, but because the policy is so manifestly shit they have to lie and appeal to other things) aren't really members of our movement."

I *strongly* disagree with you downplaying this observation by pretending its a minority, as well as pretending it's equivalent between the left and the right, because the aforementioned "Neo-nazi" doesn['t exist, nobody is that obstinant and resisting to facts about a hate movement except the left wing idpol types.

Feminism is a hotbed of unexamined and unrecognised bad belief and behaviour because - for a large segment of the population - something or someone being feminist means axiomatically good, since the alternative is apparently being a misogynist, which is something they don't see themselves as.

You're absolutely correct that there are people deliberately doing and encouraging bad behaviour and pushing misandrist ideology about men being an evil moustache-twirling hivemind of privilege. Others have a pseudo-benevolent misandry in which men must be tough-loved into becoming more like women, because women are the referent object and not being like women is defective. Still others genuinely believe their ideology is helping everyone and live in echo chambers where any and all opponents are depicted are fascist incels from the planet rapejoke.

I agree with you that feminism is particularly prone to gaslighting and "being an arse but its okay because the other side is ebil" behaviour. But they're not an amorphous blob, there's positions on a spectrum all the way up to people just unthinkingly eating out of ideological trashcans and, yes, a group aware that their ideology has problems and willing to listen.

I sympathise with your viewpoints, but it's this rejection of nuance where I get off the train.

[First American Empire]

That has nothing to do with anything I just said.

It completely matches what you said because not only do Anarchist societies fail at protecting themselves, they completely fail at basics of statecraft like having a literate population and basic medical care.

My point was that none of what I said related in any way to any of the "basics of statecraft" other than military defense. Regardless of whether what you said was true or false, it's still a complete non sequitur either way.

[Totally Not OEP]

It completely matches what you said because not only do Anarchist societies fail at protecting themselves, they completely fail at basics of statecraft like having a literate population and basic medical care.

My point was that none of what I said related in any way to any of the "basics of statecraft" other than military defense. Regardless of whether what you said was true or false, it's still a complete non sequitur either way.

What is an "addendum"?

[Nakena]

Rojava's armed forces have shown at Kobani and elsewhere that it can put up a decent fight and held out against constant ISIS assaults. So they do mean business, regardless of whatever political, ideological or organizational pretenses or particularities apply to them.

[Torrocca]

Both are being protected by states, even if they aren't ruled by them. The Zapatistas are protected from foreign invasion by Mexico, which so far has been content to let them stay anarchist, but would still mobilize troops against any invasion of its de jure territory. Rojava is allied with the United States, and when it went up against Turkey (a different US ally), the US remained neutral and Rojava lost terribly.

A state is always necessary for protection from invasion by other states; it just technically doesn't have to rule all the territory it protects. The only way anarchism can succeed is through military alliances with non-anarchists. (For the record, I think allying with anarchists like Rojava is a good thing.)

Look up how the Zapatistas have seen their education and medical establishments completely collapse lol.

Last I recall, burden of proof's on the claim-maker.

[Cekoviu]

Feminism is a hotbed of unexamined and unrecognised bad belief and behaviour because - for a large segment of the population - something or someone being feminist means axiomatically good, since the alternative is apparently being a misogynist, which is something they don't see themselves as.

You're absolutely correct that there are people deliberately doing and encouraging bad behaviour and pushing misandrist ideology about men being an evil moustache-twirling hivemind of privilege. Others have a pseudo-benevolent misandry in which men must be tough-loved into becoming more like women, because women are the referent object and not being like women is defective. Still others genuinely believe their ideology is helping everyone and live in echo chambers where any and all opponents are depicted are fascist incels from the planet rapejoke.

I agree with you that feminism is particularly prone to gaslighting and "being an arse but its okay because the other side is ebil" behaviour. But they're not an amorphous blob, there's positions on a spectrum all the way up to people just unthinkingly eating out of ideological trashcans and, yes, a group aware that their ideology has problems and willing to listen.

I sympathise with your viewpoints, but it's this rejection of nuance where I get off the train.

Hourly reminder that there's a thread for this festering pile of cow dung topic. viewtopic.php?f=20&t=402223

[Ostroeuropa]

Turns out Bitcoin consumes more energy than several countries, and the value of bitcoin is not viable without exploiting third world energy supplies with lax carbon emission standards, as the energy required to maintain it costs more than the bitcoins are worth if you apply even basic environmental protections.

It's requiring as much energy to run as Switzerland, almost as much as Austria, and if counted would be around the 40th most energy consuming country in the world, higher than around 180 other countries.

That consumption chiefly from extremely pollutive methods of electricity generation, as Bitcoin needs to put 80% of revenues back into energy purchases even as it is and cannot afford anything but the cheapest.

[Cappuccina]

Feminism is a hotbed of unexamined and unrecognised bad belief and behaviour because - for a large segment of the population - something or someone being feminist means axiomatically good, since the alternative is apparently being a misogynist, which is something they don't see themselves as.

You're absolutely correct that there are people deliberately doing and encouraging bad behaviour and pushing misandrist ideology about men being an evil moustache-twirling hivemind of privilege. Others have a pseudo-benevolent misandry in which men must be tough-loved into becoming more like women, because women are the referent object and not being like women is defective. Still others genuinely believe their ideology is helping everyone and live in echo chambers where any and all opponents are depicted are fascist incels from the planet rapejoke.

I agree with you that feminism is particularly prone to gaslighting and "being an arse but its okay because the other side is ebil" behaviour. But they're not an amorphous blob, there's positions on a spectrum all the way up to people just unthinkingly eating out of ideological trashcans and, yes, a group aware that their ideology has problems and willing to listen.

I sympathise with your viewpoints, but it's this rejection of nuance where I get off the train.

Hourly reminder that there's a thread for this festering pile of cow dung topic. viewtopic.php?f=20&t=402223

In all fairness, feminism is a relevant debate topic for a thread on leftism.

[Nakena]

Turns out Bitcoin consumes more energy than several countries, and the value of bitcoin is not viable without exploiting third world energy supplies with lax carbon emission standards, as the energy required to maintain it costs more than the bitcoins are worth if you apply even basic environmental protections.

It's requiring as much energy to run as Switzerland, almost as much as Austria, and if counted would be around the 40th most energy consuming country in the world, higher than around 180 other countries.

That consumption chiefly from extremely pollutive methods of electricity generation, as Bitcoin needs to put 80% of revenues back into energy purchases even as it is and cannot afford anything but the cheapest.

This is utterly insane.

gg Satoshi Nakamoto

[Cekoviu]

Hourly reminder that there's a thread for this festering pile of cow dung topic. viewtopic.php?f=20&t=402223

In all fairness, feminism is a relevant debate topic for a thread on leftism.

You're a noob, so I'll excuse the lack of knowledge of LWDT history. A certain user here has a near-pathological obsession with it and the thread used to take that on in full. I'm just trying to keep us away from that.

[Pasong Tirad]

Rojava's armed forces have shown at Kobani and elsewhere that it can put up a decent fight and held out against constant ISIS assaults. So they do mean business, regardless of whatever political, ideological or organizational pretenses or particularities apply to them.

They're still going to need a lot of external support. Their ground forces are definitely top-notch, but they lack a proper air force that can counter Turkey's. Erdogan's just going to get his armed forces to bomb the shit out of NES from the sky and pick up from the rubble. That's why as much as I dislike them getting support from the US, it's a necessary evil at the moment. While the US isn't going to ever give them planes, their intervention at least has stopped a possible invasion for the time being, though I doubt the current arrangement is ever going to be enough for Erdogan.

[Nova Cyberia]

In all fairness, feminism is a relevant debate topic for a thread on leftism.

You're a noob, so I'll excuse the lack of knowledge of LWDT history. A certain user here has a near-pathological obsession with it and the thread used to take that on in full. I'm just trying to keep us away from that.

One thread is not enough to contain how shitty modern feminism is.

[Nova Cyberia]

Rojava's armed forces have shown at Kobani and elsewhere that it can put up a decent fight and held out against constant ISIS assaults. So they do mean business, regardless of whatever political, ideological or organizational pretenses or particularities apply to them.

They're still going to need a lot of external support. Their ground forces are definitely top-notch, but they lack a proper air force that can counter Turkey's. Erdogan's just going to get his armed forces to bomb the shit out of NES from the sky and pick up from the rubble. That's why as much as I dislike them getting support from the US, it's a necessary evil at the moment. While the US isn't going to ever give them planes, their intervention at least has stopped a possible invasion for the time being, though I doubt the current arrangement is ever going to be enough for Erdogan.

I fail to see why Rojava is worth protecting.

[Torrocca]

Rojava's armed forces have shown at Kobani and elsewhere that it can put up a decent fight and held out against constant ISIS assaults. So they do mean business, regardless of whatever political, ideological or organizational pretenses or particularities apply to them.

They're still going to need a lot of external support. Their ground forces are definitely top-notch, but they lack a proper air force that can counter Turkey's. Erdogan's just going to get his armed forces to bomb the shit out of NES from the sky and pick up from the rubble. That's why as much as I dislike them getting support from the US, it's a necessary evil at the moment. While the US isn't going to ever give them planes, their intervention at least has stopped a possible invasion for the time being, though I doubt the current arrangement is ever going to be enough for Erdogan.

All the more reason to hope Erdogan gets replaced by somebody far better than him, tbqh.