LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Glad to see we're just trusting random third world militias and their nationalist agendas uncritically.

Just because you're an anarchist doesn't mean you have to support nationalist third world militias that give arms to terrorist groups.

National liberation =/= Nationalism.

When the goal is to establish a nation-state, the terms are synonymous.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Glad to see we're just trusting random third world militias and their nationalist agendas uncritically.

Not uncritically, no. I've already mentioned that I do believe they're closely connected both ideologically and through the political organization the KCK. The PKK I'm sure has done some bad shit that's unjustifiable. None of this is proof that the PYD-YPG is somehow the same as the PKK. Literally nothing but a bunch of words stated on the record by a bunch of men in suits and uniforms. I'm more than happy to consider any actual links they've provided.

That they provide arms to one-another is one link. But regardless, the US supports the YPG, they are allies, so if the goal of the US was to discredit the YPG, that would be strange. In fact, the US has invested a lot of diplomatic effort to rebrand the YPG.

[Torrocca]

National liberation =/= Nationalism.

When the goal is to establish a nation-state, the terms are synonymous.

Do you expect them to achieve national liberation from Assad's oppressions by not achieving national liberation, by chance?

[United Muscovite Nations]

When the goal is to establish a nation-state, the terms are synonymous.

Do you expect them to achieve national liberation from Assad's oppressions by not achieving national liberation, by chance?

I support liberation, not national liberation, which is just a polite term Marxist-Leninists made up to justify supporting ethnic-nationalist militias in the third world.

[Torrocca]

Do you expect them to achieve national liberation from Assad's oppressions by not achieving national liberation, by chance?

I support liberation, not national liberation, which is just a polite term Marxist-Leninists made up to justify supporting ethnic-nationalist militias in the third world.

The sheer irony of this claim is that the majority of Marxist-Leninists today love Assad, going off various internet forums.

Regardless, there's absolutely nothing particularly "Nationalist" about the Rojava movement, certainly nothing negative about it.

[Pasong Tirad]

Not uncritically, no. I've already mentioned that I do believe they're closely connected both ideologically and through the political organization the KCK. The PKK I'm sure has done some bad shit that's unjustifiable. None of this is proof that the PYD-YPG is somehow the same as the PKK. Literally nothing but a bunch of words stated on the record by a bunch of men in suits and uniforms. I'm more than happy to consider any actual links they've provided.

That they provide arms to one-another is one link. But regardless, the US supports the YPG, they are allies, so if the goal of the US was to discredit the YPG, that would be strange. In fact, the US has invested a lot of diplomatic effort to rebrand the YPG.

I wouldn't be surprised about providing arms to one another, given that the PKK has also been active in the fight against the Islamic State. And that the YPG rebranded itself into the SDF isn't exactly a secret, as the YPG is the Kurdish force, while the SDF is the multiethnic armed forces of North and East Syria. Much like how Rojava rebranded itself first into the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria to show that it's moving away from Kurdish nationalism itself into something more multicultural, and then to the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria to signify its desires not for independence but for greater autonomy from Syria, as their goal now is no longer to create a Kurdish nation-state but to be free to continue running their democratic confederalist political framework under as an autonomous component of Syria.

Still, none of that proves that the PKK is somehow the same as the PYD-YPG or the SDF. It's Turkey that keeps parroting this nonsense that they are the same entities, and if we're talking about trust here I do honestly prefer to put my trust in leftist militias that have been active and are one of the biggest players in the fight against the Islamic State over the words of the neo-Ottoman, ethnonationalist Erdogan.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I support liberation, not national liberation, which is just a polite term Marxist-Leninists made up to justify supporting ethnic-nationalist militias in the third world.

The sheer irony of this claim is that the majority of Marxist-Leninists today love Assad, going off various internet forums.

Regardless, there's absolutely nothing particularly "Nationalist" about the Rojava movement, certainly nothing negative about it.

The nationalist thing about them is that they're trying to establish a Kurdish nation-state in Northern Syria to act as a base to wage struggle in Turkey.

[United Muscovite Nations]

That they provide arms to one-another is one link. But regardless, the US supports the YPG, they are allies, so if the goal of the US was to discredit the YPG, that would be strange. In fact, the US has invested a lot of diplomatic effort to rebrand the YPG.

I wouldn't be surprised about providing arms to one another, given that the PKK has also been active in the fight against the Islamic State. And that the YPG rebranded itself into the SDF isn't exactly a secret, as the YPG is the Kurdish force, while the SDF is the multiethnic armed forces of North and East Syria. Much like how Rojava rebranded itself first into the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria to show that it's moving away from Kurdish nationalism itself into something more multicultural, and then to the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria to signify its desires not for independence but for greater autonomy from Syria, as their goal now is no longer to create a Kurdish nation-state but to be free to continue running their democratic confederalist political framework under as an autonomous component of Syria.

Still, none of that proves that the PKK is somehow the same as the PYD-YPG or the SDF. It's Turkey that keeps parroting this nonsense that they are the same entities, and if we're talking about trust here I do honestly prefer to put my trust in leftist militias that have been active and are one of the biggest players in the fight against the Islamic State over the words of the neo-Ottoman, ethnonationalist Erdogan.

It's not just Erdogan who says that, it's the people who bankroll the YPG and who would be in a position to know the links the YPG has.

[Nakena]

The sheer irony of this claim is that the majority of Marxist-Leninists today love Assad, going off various internet forums.

Regardless, there's absolutely nothing particularly "Nationalist" about the Rojava movement, certainly nothing negative about it.

The nationalist thing about them is that they're trying to establish a Kurdish nation-state in Northern Syria to act as a base to wage struggle in Turkey.

The moment the wage a struggle the turkish military is going to destroy them.

[Torrocca]

The sheer irony of this claim is that the majority of Marxist-Leninists today love Assad, going off various internet forums.

Regardless, there's absolutely nothing particularly "Nationalist" about the Rojava movement, certainly nothing negative about it.

The nationalist thing about them is that they're trying to establish a Kurdish nation-state in Northern Syria to act as a base to wage struggle in Turkey.

How the fuck does that make sense, exactly? What the fuck would they gain from giving their strongest bordering neighbor a casus belli to essentially destroy whatever independence they gain?

[Pasong Tirad]

The sheer irony of this claim is that the majority of Marxist-Leninists today love Assad, going off various internet forums.

Regardless, there's absolutely nothing particularly "Nationalist" about the Rojava movement, certainly nothing negative about it.

The nationalist thing about them is that they're trying to establish a Kurdish nation-state in Northern Syria to act as a base to wage struggle in Turkey.

No they aren't. You need to actually prove your statements. Their goal is autonomy within Syria. That's why they aren't called Rojava anymore.

I wouldn't be surprised about providing arms to one another, given that the PKK has also been active in the fight against the Islamic State. And that the YPG rebranded itself into the SDF isn't exactly a secret, as the YPG is the Kurdish force, while the SDF is the multiethnic armed forces of North and East Syria. Much like how Rojava rebranded itself first into the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria to show that it's moving away from Kurdish nationalism itself into something more multicultural, and then to the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria to signify its desires not for independence but for greater autonomy from Syria, as their goal now is no longer to create a Kurdish nation-state but to be free to continue running their democratic confederalist political framework under as an autonomous component of Syria.

Still, none of that proves that the PKK is somehow the same as the PYD-YPG or the SDF. It's Turkey that keeps parroting this nonsense that they are the same entities, and if we're talking about trust here I do honestly prefer to put my trust in leftist militias that have been active and are one of the biggest players in the fight against the Islamic State over the words of the neo-Ottoman, ethnonationalist Erdogan.

It's not just Erdogan who says that, it's the people who bankroll the YPG and who would be in a position to know the links the YPG has.

You mean the US? The US who would love to do and say anything that'll keep Turkey in their good graces? The US who's critical NATO ally is already being courted by Russia and would do anything to keep their rebellious love child away from Putin? The US who has literally just made a deal with Turkey to appease them into not invading Northern Syria? Please. I'd love it if you could actually show the connections these generals and secretaries parrot.

[Torrocca]

The nationalist thing about them is that they're trying to establish a Kurdish nation-state in Northern Syria to act as a base to wage struggle in Turkey.

No they aren't. You need to actually prove your statements. Their goal is autonomy within Syria. That's why they aren't called Rojava anymore.

... TIL'd they changed their name. "The Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria" is a bit of a mouthful, tbh.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The nationalist thing about them is that they're trying to establish a Kurdish nation-state in Northern Syria to act as a base to wage struggle in Turkey.

No they aren't. You need to actually prove your statements. Their goal is autonomy within Syria. That's why they aren't called Rojava anymore.

They've rebranded themselves because the US told them to. I don't trust Rojava precisely because of its history with Kurdish nationalism. I think they have an agenda that Western anarchists have foolishly fallen for.

[Pasong Tirad]

The nationalist thing about them is that they're trying to establish a Kurdish nation-state in Northern Syria to act as a base to wage struggle in Turkey.

The moment the wage a struggle the turkish military is going to destroy them.

Precisely why that goal makes absolutely no sense given that Rojava has a lot to lose if it continues going that route. It's angering a lot of leftist circles I follow online, actually, that they're compromising so much.

No they aren't. You need to actually prove your statements. Their goal is autonomy within Syria. That's why they aren't called Rojava anymore.

... TIL'd they changed their name. "The Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria" is a bit of a mouthful, tbh.

It's still commonly called either Rojava or NES. But the name change to Autonomous Administration is a signal that their struggle isn't for independence.

[Torrocca]

The moment the wage a struggle the turkish military is going to destroy them.

Precisely why that goal makes absolutely no sense given that Rojava has a lot to lose if it continues going that route. It's angering a lot of leftist circles I follow online, actually, that they're compromising so much.

Honestly, I can see why people would be angry about it, but fucking hell they need to get a bit of a grip. Success is meaningless if it gets stomped into the dirt a day later because no security was achieved alongside it.

... TIL'd they changed their name. "The Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria" is a bit of a mouthful, tbh.

It's still commonly called either Rojava or NES. But the name change to Autonomous Administration is a signal that their struggle isn't for independence.

Fair enough. I need to get more up-to-date with that movement, tbqh.

[Pasong Tirad]

No they aren't. You need to actually prove your statements. Their goal is autonomy within Syria. That's why they aren't called Rojava anymore.

They've rebranded themselves because the US told them to. I don't trust Rojava precisely because of its history with Kurdish nationalism. I think they have an agenda that Western anarchists have foolishly fallen for.

That's... yeah, alright. That's fair.

But they haven't just "rebranded themselves because the US told them to." The YPG rebranded itself into the SDF not just because America said they should but also because it's a step towards the realization of democratic confederalism. It's a step towards signalling that they're no longer just a bunch of Kurdish nationalists, but that their systems of governance and politics is multucultural and is inclusive of all ethnic groups that live within Northern Syria. That's why one of the co-presidents of NES is an Arab, that's why a bunch of non-Kurdish armed groups are also components of the SDF, notably the Assyrian Christian-led Syriac Military Council, the Turkmen-led Seljuk Brigade (which had IIRC broken up its connections with Turkey due to Turkey favoring the more Islamist and neo-Ottoman groups like the Syrian Turkmen Army).

[Ostroeuropa]

It's a relatively small band of idiots being used to stereotype a much larger group who have considerably more nuanced, though of course often still dodgy, views. Same as with throwing the word "fascist" about like it's cheap sweeties at Halloween. Even when people focus on the actual people who most closely resemble the meme, it'll be used as a stick to make sweeping and false generalisations.

It's deliberately alarmist babble and twaddle, an overgrown social media communications strategy that's escaped the medium, where each side's meme factory constantly competes to frighten the centrists into picking their side by waving a cardboard cutout caricature of the other side.

The moment anyone starts talking about mainstream figures or movements in the West being SJWs or fascists I tune out, because I'm about to witness shitness.

Doesn't matter if its a minority, they're in power.

https://i.redd.it/xeqew4ufdrx21.png

It's not alarmism if supporting their movement will actually result in nutters taking over policy.

You may as well say it's a small band of idiots ruining the republican party and Mitch McConnel and other anarcho-capitalist nutters shouldn't be used to judge the people who routinely empower them.

The notion that some random fuckers have "Nuance" like you claim is as absurd as taking some moron who claims they are a neo-Nazi seriously when they say they aren't a racist, because they listened to adolf hitler talk about germany and the fatherland and making it strong for germans, but They're the REAL Nazi, because jews are also germans and genocide makes germany weaker so all those poser Nazis who support genocide aren't real Nazis.

It involves taking willfully self-deluded people seriously. You shouldn't. You should laugh at them, mock them, and tell them if they insist on being so ridiculous and pretending to themselves that a swastika isn't a hate symbol, they're not allowed in the building.

Any feminist is such a person. Any idpol leftist is too, given the propensity to side with feminists and others like them.

You say its "Nuance.".

It isn't nuance, it's useful idiocy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

(I literally don't know a non-derogatory term for describing this phemomanae. I disavow the derogatoriness while supporting the overall observation.).

"Hyuk hyuk, it's about a strong germany equality. The others (The actual leaders of our movement with authority and the people who institute policy, but because the policy is so manifestly shit they have to lie and appeal to other things) aren't really members of our movement."

I *strongly* disagree with you downplaying this observation by pretending its a minority, as well as pretending it's equivalent between the left and the right, because the aforementioned "Neo-nazi" doesn['t exist, nobody is that obstinant and resisting to facts about a hate movement except the left wing idpol types.

[Ostroeuropa]

I have other articles, but since you are an SJW yourself, I see no reason to share them. If you actually carry the stupid idea that colleges need to regulate trivial things like costumes or something similar, I see no reason to even bother. No misapplication here.

I don't think it's necessary, but you're blowing it vastly out of proportion. It's some stupid guidelines that don't actually result in anything, just like most of the targets of outrage culture.

The mere fact you think the anti-white and anti-male harm your movement has done is being "Blown vastly out of proportion" is enough to damn you as either poorly informed, rationalizing how your hate movement isn't too bad, or actively malicious.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

I support liberation, not national liberation, which is just a polite term Marxist-Leninists made up to justify supporting ethnic-nationalist militias in the third world.

Exactly.

[First American Empire]

When the goal is to establish a nation-state, the terms are synonymous.

Do you expect them to achieve national liberation from Assad's oppressions by not achieving national liberation, by chance?

I support liberation, not national liberation, which is just a polite term Marxist-Leninists made up to justify supporting ethnic-nationalist militias in the third world.

I don't want Rojava to establish a Kurdish nation-state. Give them all of Syria instead.

[Nakena]

Do you expect them to achieve national liberation from Assad's oppressions by not achieving national liberation, by chance?

I don't want Rojava to establish a Kurdish nation-state. Give them all of Syria instead.

That would be interesting.

[Totally Not OEP]

The Zapatistas and Rojava are prime examples meeting all of those criteria.

Both are being protected by states, even if they aren't ruled by them. The Zapatistas are protected from foreign invasion by Mexico, which so far has been content to let them stay anarchist, but would still mobilize troops against any invasion of its de jure territory. Rojava is allied with the United States, and when it went up against Turkey (a different US ally), the US remained neutral and Rojava lost terribly.

A state is always necessary for protection from invasion by other states; it just technically doesn't have to rule all the territory it protects. The only way anarchism can succeed is through military alliances with non-anarchists. (For the record, I think allying with anarchists like Rojava is a good thing.)

Look up how the Zapatistas have seen their education and medical establishments completely collapse lol.

[Pasong Tirad]

Do you expect them to achieve national liberation from Assad's oppressions by not achieving national liberation, by chance?

I support liberation, not national liberation, which is just a polite term Marxist-Leninists made up to justify supporting ethnic-nationalist militias in the third world.

I don't want Rojava to establish a Kurdish nation-state. Give them all of Syria instead.

That can be done by federalizing Syria, and having the many states governed from the bottom-up under the principles of democratic confederalism. It wouldn't exactly be giving Syria to the Kurds, but giving Syria to Bookchin's and Öcalan's political visions.

[Kowani]

I don't want Rojava to establish a Kurdish nation-state. Give them all of Syria instead.

That would be interesting.

And a catastrophe.

[Nakena]

That would be interesting.

And a catastrophe.

I think FAE means that all of Syria should become like Rojava.