LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[Duvniask]

Xeno, no! The commies have wiped your mind again and turned you left!

On a more serious note, why do you say you're right leaning?

Because economically, I'm sort of in the middle. I support economic freedom and private property rights, but I also want a strong social safety net, good healthcare and robust workers' rights. I call myself centre-right because that's where political compasses place me.

Saying you support economic freedom is, on the whole, akin to me saying I support individual choice. What you mean gets across, to be sure, but that doesn't mean I can't be pedantic about it! Being pedantic is 50% of my time spent on this website... if not more.

The same can definitely be said of "good healthcare". I too support good healthcare, because who among us supports bad healthcare?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Because economically, I'm sort of in the middle. I support economic freedom and private property rights, but I also want a strong social safety net, good healthcare and robust workers' rights. I call myself centre-right because that's where political compasses place me.

Point of order-On the economic freedom scale, deregulation isn’t the way to go.

I think the way to go on that scale lies somewhere in the middle.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

A statement being "yours" doesn't make it closed to response by other individuals posting on a thread.

What you do is your business. However, I have a responsibility, IMO, to express moral outrage at statements targeting minorities.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Muslims in the US are actually less conservative and less likely to support terrorism than the average American.

That is correct; and they also have a lower overall crime rate.

[North German Realm]

A statement being "yours" doesn't make it closed to response by other individuals posting on a thread.

What you do is your business. However, I have a responsibility, IMO, to express moral outrage at statements targeting minorities.

I'm sure you'll be just as morally outraged if I target fascists, white supremacists or nazis, some other ideological minorities who's existence automatically harms that of everyone else around them.

[First American Empire]

oof

I think everyone has been into some weird ideology at some point. My worst "phase" was probably being an authoritarian socialist as edgy teenager. Unless you want to count it as phase when I almost got brainwashed into 21th century National Socialism. That was some different kind of madness though.

I'm pretty sure most people go through a brief period of ideological edginess during their teens. I've more or less grown out of strict adherence to any particular ideology.

I haven't. I've been a SocDem as long as I can remember. I've supported the same policies for most of my life, despite having varying levels of anger at my non-SocDem government.

[Duvniask]

What you do is your business. However, I have a responsibility, IMO, to express moral outrage at statements targeting minorities.

I'm sure you'll be just as morally outraged if I target fascists, white supremacists or nazis, some other ideological minorities who's existence automatically harms that of everyone else around them.

You heard it here folks, being a Muslim is apparently just as bad as being a fascist, a white supremacist or a downright Nazi.

[Cappuccina]

I'm pretty sure most people go through a brief period of ideological edginess during their teens. I've more or less grown out of strict adherence to any particular ideology.

I haven't. I've been a SocDem as long as I can remember. I've supported the same policies for most of my life, despite having varying levels of anger at my non-SocDem government.

Tbh, my overall views haven't drastically changed over the years. The changes were mostly in how I thought certain aspects of my views could be actualized.

[North German Realm]

I'm sure you'll be just as morally outraged if I target fascists, white supremacists or nazis, some other ideological minorities who's existence automatically harms that of everyone else around them.

You heard it here folks, being a Muslim is apparently just as bad as being a fascist, a white supremacist or a downright Nazi.

I mean, Islam as an ideology is worse than Fascism and most -though not all- types of White Supremacy, though not as bad as National Socialism, but that's really only because National Socialism is evil to the point of absurdity. I don't know why I shouldn't say it's adherents are worse, if the ideology is worse (at least imo).

[Cappuccina]

You heard it here folks, being a Muslim is apparently just as bad as being a fascist, a white supremacist or a downright Nazi.

I mean, Islam as an ideology is worse than Fascism and most -though not all- types of White Supremacy, though not as bad as National Socialism, but that's really only because National Socialism is evil to the point of absurdity. I don't know why I shouldn't say it's adherents are worse, if the ideology is worse (at least imo).

That is a ridiculous belief, even if you disagree with Islam.

[North German Realm]

I mean, Islam as an ideology is worse than Fascism and most -though not all- types of White Supremacy, though not as bad as National Socialism, but that's really only because National Socialism is evil to the point of absurdity. I don't know why I shouldn't say it's adherents are worse, if the ideology is worse (at least imo).

That is a ridiculous belief, even if you disagree with Islam.

If you say so

[Kowani]

You heard it here folks, being a Muslim is apparently just as bad as being a fascist, a white supremacist or a downright Nazi.

I mean, Islam as an ideology is worse than Fascism and most -though not all- types of White Supremacy, though not as bad as National Socialism, but that's really only because National Socialism is evil to the point of absurdity. I don't know why I shouldn't say it's adherents are worse, if the ideology is worse (at least imo).

For one, the existence of cherrypicking. Those Muslims who take the “enlightened” parts and ignore the other 80% of the Qu’ran.

[Nakena]

I'm pretty sure most people go through a brief period of ideological edginess during their teens. I've more or less grown out of strict adherence to any particular ideology.

I haven't. I've been a SocDem as long as I can remember. I've supported the same policies for most of my life, despite having varying levels of anger at my non-SocDem government.

I think some social democracy would be good for america.

It would also the advantage that it doesnt carries the afromentioned historical baggage of european social democracy but would be a new and fresh force on the stage.

[North German Realm]

I mean, Islam as an ideology is worse than Fascism and most -though not all- types of White Supremacy, though not as bad as National Socialism, but that's really only because National Socialism is evil to the point of absurdity. I don't know why I shouldn't say it's adherents are worse, if the ideology is worse (at least imo).

For one, the existence of cherrypicking. Those Muslims who take the “enlightened” parts and ignore the other 80% of the Qu’ran.

I wouldn't call a self-described Nazi who doesn't believe in racial supremacy, Lebensraum, and the totalitarian ideology of the National Socialist Regime a nazi, no matter how much they call themselves one. I'm not going to call a guy who doesn't believe in 80% of the Quran and Shariah as a Muslim either. Cherry Pickers are either idiots or they "remain" part of the faith because leaving it would be a danger to their life -either from their government, community, or even family.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I'm sure you'll be just as morally outraged if I target fascists, white supremacists or nazis, some other ideological minorities who's existence automatically harms that of everyone else around them.

You heard it here folks, being a Muslim is apparently just as bad as being a fascist, a white supremacist or a downright Nazi.

Islam as an ideology can contend with Fascism in termf of evilness and authoritarianism.

[Ostroeuropa]

You heard it here folks, being a Muslim is apparently just as bad as being a fascist, a white supremacist or a downright Nazi.

Islam as an ideology can contend with Fascism in termf of evilness and authoritarianism.

Pretty much. People like to pretend there's a difference between Islam and Islamism, but Islam is pretty explicit in being a code for how society should be governed.

[Solarist VZ]

Maybe should stop following the leaderships of your countries, who push for the razing of the Muslim homelands, and also opening the doors to them so they can behold the godless consumerism and hedionism of the West. Making them really angry.
Just saying. Everyone just wants to be left alone.

[Ostroeuropa]

Maybe should stop following the leaderships of your countries, who push for the razing of the Muslim homelands, and also opening the doors to them so they can behold the godless consumerism and hedionism of the West. Making them really angry.
Just saying. Everyone just wants to be left alone.

They're holding everyone hostage is the problem.

[North German Realm]

Maybe should stop following the leaderships of your countries, who push for the razing of the Muslim homelands, and also opening the doors to them so they can behold the godless consumerism and hedionism of the West. Making them really angry.
Just saying. Everyone just wants to be left alone.

And maybe you should stop blaming Europeans and Americans for Muslims believing in an ideology that literally has had the same problems it does right now for the last fourteen hundred years. Islam being an evil authoritarian ideology that supports slavery, mass murder, "ideology exportation", and brutal suppression of dissent abroad as well as domestic isn't something new. Are you saying they'd, what, stop being Muslims if Euroepans didn't "push for the razing" of their countries? (Which literally nobody does anyway)

[Cekoviu]

Maybe should stop following the leaderships of your countries, who push for the razing of the Muslim homelands, and also opening the doors to them so they can behold the godless consumerism and hedionism of the West. Making them really angry.
Just saying. Everyone just wants to be left alone.

And maybe you should stop blaming Europeans and Americans for Muslims believing in an ideology that literally has had the same problems it does right now for the last fourteen hundred years. Islam being an evil authoritarian ideology that supports slavery, mass murder, "ideology exportation", and brutal suppression of dissent abroad as well as domestic isn't something new. Are you saying they'd, what, stop being Muslims if Euroepans didn't "push for the razing" of their countries? (Which literally nobody does anyway)

Perhaps they're referring to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

[Duvniask]

I mean, Islam as an ideology is worse than Fascism and most -though not all- types of White Supremacy, though not as bad as National Socialism, but that's really only because National Socialism is evil to the point of absurdity. I don't know why I shouldn't say it's adherents are worse, if the ideology is worse (at least imo).

For one, the existence of cherrypicking. Those Muslims who take the “enlightened” parts and ignore the other 80% of the Qu’ran.

You heard it here folks, being a Muslim is apparently just as bad as being a fascist, a white supremacist or a downright Nazi.

Islam as an ideology can contend with Fascism in termf of evilness and authoritarianism.

I'm not sure you guys understand the context it was said in, so let's rewind a bit.

North German Realm originally said: "Having any number of Muslims is inherently harmful for any country in multiple aspects (including its culture, civil rights, and safety). Europe isn't really an exception in that front."

After getting confronted about this, he literally compares them with white supremacists, fascists and Nazis, in some weird attempt to call out a supposed hypocrisy, as if all Muslims are on par with former. That is disgusting. I have friends from Algeria and Morocco who are Muslim, they're not on par with fucking fascists.

[Kowani]

For one, the existence of cherrypicking. Those Muslims who take the “enlightened” parts and ignore the other 80% of the Qu’ran.

Islam as an ideology can contend with Fascism in termf of evilness and authoritarianism.

I'm not sure you guys understand the context it was said in, so let's rewind a bit.

North German Realm originally said: "Having any number of Muslims is inherently harmful for any country in multiple aspects (including its culture, civil rights, and safety). Europe isn't really an exception in that front."

After getting confronted about this, he literally compares them with white supremacists, fascists and Nazis, in some weird attempt to call out a supposed hypocrisy, as if all Muslims are on par with former. That is disgusting. I have friends from Algeria and Morocco who are Muslim, they're not on par with fucking fascists.

I mean, he’s from Iran. I think he knows more Muslims than you do.

[North German Realm]

I'm not sure you guys understand the context it was said in, so let's rewind a bit.

North German Realm originally said: "Having any number of Muslims is inherently harmful for any country in multiple aspects (including its culture, civil rights, and safety). Europe isn't really an exception in that front."

After getting confronted about this, he literally compares them with white supremacists, fascists and Nazis, in some weird attempt to call out a supposed hypocrisy, as if all Muslims are on par with former. That is disgusting. I have friends from Algeria and Morocco who are Muslim, they're not on par with fucking fascists.

I said it, and I will forever stand by it. Exceptions aside (That is to say, some relatively modern denominations of Islam like Ahmadis, or "spin-off" ideologies like the Baha'i faith), Islam as an ideology is as bad -if not worse- than Fascism and most forms of White Supremacy, and only somewhat better than National Socialism (and that's really because, as I said, National Socialism is absurdly evil). The Ideology is terrible, and if someone believes in that ideology, they necessarily have to be terrible, unless we go by the "some fine people" route, and I'm not willing to do that. A practicing Muslim is necessarily harmful for a country's culture, civil rights, and safety, because what they believe in -just like Fascism, White Supremacy, and National Socialism- is harmful for that country's culture, civil rights, and safety.

And uh, if you're trying to, in a feeble attempt, call me out for what I say, be honest enough to mention what I responded to. A statement that we should protect Muslims because they're an ideological minority.

[Nakena]

After getting confronted about this, he literally compares them with white supremacists, fascists and Nazis, in some weird attempt to call out a supposed hypocrisy, as if all Muslims are on par with former. That is disgusting. I have friends from Algeria and Morocco who are Muslim, they're not on par with fucking fascists.

The problem is with the ideology. And since a lot of people get slapped the muslim label on from birth not everyone necessarily follows it by the book.

Actually a lot of people dont.

I also have a few muslim friends so I would know about those things. Some really just dont care, some are just muslims in name only. Like I also have a few friends who're also far-right.

The problem comes with the true believers. Who are actually believing in the more gritty tennants of their ideology, which can become a serious problem with either islam or also natsoc.

Also are you from Spain?

[Duvniask]

I'm not sure you guys understand the context it was said in, so let's rewind a bit.

North German Realm originally said: "Having any number of Muslims is inherently harmful for any country in multiple aspects (including its culture, civil rights, and safety). Europe isn't really an exception in that front."

After getting confronted about this, he literally compares them with white supremacists, fascists and Nazis, in some weird attempt to call out a supposed hypocrisy, as if all Muslims are on par with former. That is disgusting. I have friends from Algeria and Morocco who are Muslim, they're not on par with fucking fascists.

I mean, he’s from Iran. I think he knows more Muslims than you do.

I don't care if he's from Iran. I don't want my friends and other people like them compared to fascists, just because they're moderate followers of the Islamic faith. I wouldn't do the same to Christians, either.

I'm not sure you guys understand the context it was said in, so let's rewind a bit.

North German Realm originally said: "Having any number of Muslims is inherently harmful for any country in multiple aspects (including its culture, civil rights, and safety). Europe isn't really an exception in that front."

After getting confronted about this, he literally compares them with white supremacists, fascists and Nazis, in some weird attempt to call out a supposed hypocrisy, as if all Muslims are on par with former. That is disgusting. I have friends from Algeria and Morocco who are Muslim, they're not on par with fucking fascists.

I said it, and I will forever stand by it. Exceptions aside (That is to say, some relatively modern denominations of Islam like Ahmadis, or "spin-off" ideologies like the Baha'i faith), Islam as an ideology is as bad -if not worse- than Fascism and most forms of White Supremacy, and only somewhat better than National Socialism (and that's really because, as I said, National Socialism is absurdly evil). The Ideology is terrible, and if someone believes in that ideology, they necessarily have to be terrible, unless we go by the "some fine people" route, and I'm not willing to do that. A practicing Muslim is necessarily harmful for a country's culture, civil rights, and safety, because what they believe in -just like Fascism, White Supremacy, and National Socialism- is harmful for that country's culture, civil rights, and safety.

So do explain what part of the beliefs of moderate Muslims, who are from relatively secular countries, are worse than fascism, especially in light of the pro-democracy protests of the Arab spring, and why they're apparently so dangerous. And do also explain if you are gonna extend this courtesy to moderate Christians (most of the ones in the West).

I'm asking this as a relatively anti-theistic atheist, mind you; I don't have that much sympathy for religions.

And uh, if you're trying to, in a feeble attempt, call me out for what I say, be honest enough to mention what I responded to. A statement that we should protect Muslims because they're an ideological minority.

"hOnEsT eNoUgH"

It needs no mention, because it doesn't matter. It's terrible in-context and out-of-context, so I don't give enough of a shit to mention it. You're not gonna score any brownie points by doing a "Nazis are a minority too!"-bit. And if we're gonna be strictly specific here, no one said anything about ideological minorities to my knowledge, just minorities, and that you're unjustly singling them out and targeting them.

After getting confronted about this, he literally compares them with white supremacists, fascists and Nazis, in some weird attempt to call out a supposed hypocrisy, as if all Muslims are on par with former. That is disgusting. I have friends from Algeria and Morocco who are Muslim, they're not on par with fucking fascists.

The problem is with the ideology. And since a lot of people get slapped the muslim label on from birth not everyone necessarily follows it by the book.

Actually a lot of people dont.

I also have a few muslim friends so I would know about those things. Some really just dont care, some are just muslims in name only. Like I also have a few friends who're also far-right.

The problem comes with the true believers. Who are actually believing in the more gritty tennants of their ideology, which can become a serious problem with either islam or also natsoc.

The thing is, the central ideological pillars of Nazism are ideologically extreme, and I would argue, dangerous, by default.

I'd like someone to explain to me why that would be the same for all Muslims. Of course, one could argue that Muslims that don't strictly follow the literal interpretation of faith aren't, in fact, Muslims, but then you'd need to specify that first, plus you'd need to be consistent and apply the same principle to most Christians, who are not fundamentalists either. I for one do not think you have to follow the holy book in its literal interpretation to be part of a faith. Most Christians you'll find will probably argue that the Bible contains a lot of metaphor or shouldn't always be taken literally. Same goes for many Muslims.

Also are you from Spain?

I am not from Spain.