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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45251
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:47 am

North German Realm wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Islamic slaves are like house elves, only they're fed and sustained by the master's piety and benevolence rather than magic.

*coughs* And they are freed if Master gives them clothes accepts they've converted.


M-master has given Dobby an "apostate" brand...
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
★彡 Professional pessimist. Reactionary socialist and gamer liberationist. Coffee addict. Fun at parties 彡★
Freedom is when people agree with you, and the more people you can force to act like they agree the freer society is
You are the trolley problem's conductor. You could stop the train in time but you do not. Nobody knows you're part of the equation. You satisfy your bloodlust and get away with it every time

User avatar
El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:15 am

North German Realm wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Islamic slaves are like house elves, only they're fed and sustained by the master's piety and benevolence rather than magic.

*coughs* And they are freed if Master gives them clothes accepts they've converted.

Or mukaatabah
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:38 am

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Neutral Evil.


Or Chaotic Good.


Centrist Authoritarians can not be chaotic or good.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

User avatar
Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44623
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:26 am

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
So, your response to murder and spreading corruption, is more murder and spreading of corruption? That's like fucking for chastity.

I didn't say anything about promoting spreading corruption.


You were the one who brought up "spreading corruption". My post even explicitly quotes you doing so. Next time you try and be intellectually dishonest, don't be so blatant about it.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Indeed. And what if I consider promoting Sharia law to be spreading corruption?


Then you're enslaved. In an Islamic fashion of course.


God wills it, so clearly, it isn't bad at all!

Dear Lord, I swear, the greatest enemy of religion is religion itself.

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
North German Realm wrote:*coughs* And they are freed if Master gives them clothes accepts they've converted.

Or mukaatabah


Well, if you'd think for yourself for a change, you'd realize that no matter how "benevolent" it sounds, any institution that accepts the forcible enslavement of others as a legitimate practice is inherently evil.

EDIT: Just so I'm absolutely clear here, there's no way in hell that an agreement of "pay me $10000 or I'll legally force you to become my slave" is at all "benevolent". Its fucking extortion, plain and simple.
Last edited by Grenartia on Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
Lib-left. Antifascist, antitankie, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist (including the imperialism of non-western countries). Christian (Unitarian Universalist). Background in physics.
Mostly a girl. She or they pronouns, please. Unrepentant transbian.
Reject tradition, embrace modernity.
People who call themselves based NEVER are.
The truth about kids transitioning.

User avatar
Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44623
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:33 am

Valrifell wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Or Chaotic Good.


Centrist Authoritarians can not be chaotic or good.


Fucking truth.

In all my time on the internet, I've never encountered a centrist that wasn't neutral, nor an authoritarian that wasn't evil.

If they exist, I've yet to see them.
Lib-left. Antifascist, antitankie, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist (including the imperialism of non-western countries). Christian (Unitarian Universalist). Background in physics.
Mostly a girl. She or they pronouns, please. Unrepentant transbian.
Reject tradition, embrace modernity.
People who call themselves based NEVER are.
The truth about kids transitioning.

User avatar
Minzerland II
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5589
Founded: Aug 27, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Minzerland II » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:01 am

Grenartia wrote:
Minzerland II wrote:Because ‘Thou shalt not kill’ means to not murder, and the death penalty is not murder.


I hereby award you the gold medal in mental gymnastics.

It’s an uncomplicated statement meant to answer a question, leaving out most nuance for expediency and brevity. I will explain somewhat. Murder is the intentional, unjust killing of someone. Princes, or governments, or whatever, prosecute justice, the death penalty is one of many avenues whereby justice is administered. Therefore, the death penalty is not murder.

Now, as I said, the answer was made for expediency and brevity, though I have explained a little here, and I am most aware that questions of legitimacy, justness of the laws, so on and so forth effect whether the administration of the death penalty is murder itself. However, the death penalty, in and of itself, in principle, cannot be called murder.
Hanafuridake wrote:
Minzerland II wrote:I can’t tell where your beliefs are from anymore, tbqh.


Then allow me to impart on you a major historical insight: Buddhism comes from India.

Minzerland II wrote:And why is that?


For a number of reasons, both religious and secular. One of the most basic is that I think there is something psychologically unhealthy about a society which celebrates the killing of people who cannot resist. It desensitizes us and makes us regard human life much less, which is a scary prospect in an age of automatic weaponry.
Minzerland II wrote:I did though, I only mentioned ‘East Asia’ as an afterthought (for a lack of a better term). For it, I apologise; let’s move on.


It didn't so much offend as confuse me, because of it's seemingly utterly irrelevancy to what was being said.

Fair enough, actually. Though I support the death penalty, that is to be discouraged.
Previous Profile: Minzerland
Donkey Advocate & Herald of Donkeydom
St Anselm of Canterbury wrote:[…]who ever heard of anything having two mothers or two fathers? (Monologion, pg. 63)

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27691
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:18 am

Valrifell wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Or Chaotic Good.


Centrist Authoritarians can not be chaotic or good.


Wouldn't that shoot him up to Lawful Evil on the chart then, if he's an authoritarian?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:25 am

Grenartia wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I didn't say anything about promoting spreading corruption.


You were the one who brought up "spreading corruption".

Yes, punishing it, not promoting it, which is what my post says. You said "So, your response to murder and spreading corruption, is more murder and spreading of corruption?". The underlined is not something I said nor something I support.
Grenartia wrote:EDIT: Just so I'm absolutely clear here, there's no way in he*l that an agreement of "pay me $10000 or I'll legally force you to become my slave" is at all "benevolent". Its *ucking extortion, plain and simple.

Who said it had to be that high?
Last edited by El-Amin Caliphate on Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

User avatar
Free Arabian Nation
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1802
Founded: May 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Free Arabian Nation » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:25 am

Valrifell wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Or Chaotic Good.


Centrist Authoritarians can not be chaotic or good.

No u
العرب الأحرار
I don't use NS Stats, for they are against the will of Liberty and God.

News
Open to TGs


User avatar
Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45251
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:29 am

Grenartia wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Centrist Authoritarians can not be chaotic or good.


Fucking truth.

In all my time on the internet, I've never encountered a centrist that wasn't neutral, nor an authoritarian that wasn't evil.

If they exist, I've yet to see them.


Broad notion of evil you've got there.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
★彡 Professional pessimist. Reactionary socialist and gamer liberationist. Coffee addict. Fun at parties 彡★
Freedom is when people agree with you, and the more people you can force to act like they agree the freer society is
You are the trolley problem's conductor. You could stop the train in time but you do not. Nobody knows you're part of the equation. You satisfy your bloodlust and get away with it every time

User avatar
Free Arabian Nation
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1802
Founded: May 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Free Arabian Nation » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:31 am

Grenartia wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Centrist Authoritarians can not be chaotic or good.


Fucking truth.

In all my time on the internet, I've never encountered a centrist that wasn't neutral, nor an authoritarian that wasn't evil.

If they exist, I've yet to see them.

Again, no u
العرب الأحرار
I don't use NS Stats, for they are against the will of Liberty and God.

News
Open to TGs


User avatar
First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 816
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby First American Empire » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:46 am

Valrifell wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:You either die an antithesis or live long enough to become the thesis


How do I become the synthesis?


By swearing undying allegiance to Social Democracy. Once you do, Capitalism and Communism will be held in perfect balance, combining the greatest strengths of both systems without either of their greatest weaknesses.
The American Empire is a socially progressive absolute monarchy run by the heirs of Emperor Norton. It started off at MT but has rapidly advanced to PMT through interdimensional travel. All NSstats are used, except for tax rate and population. Factbooks are currently under reconstruction.

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7300
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Crysuko » Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:17 pm

First American Empire wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
How do I become the synthesis?


By swearing undying allegiance to Social Democracy. Once you do, Capitalism and Communism will be held in perfect balance, combining the greatest strengths of both systems without either of their greatest weaknesses.

perfectly balanced, as all things should be
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11656
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:17 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Centrist Authoritarians can not be chaotic or good.


Wouldn't that shoot him up to Lawful Evil on the chart then, if he's an authoritarian?

Yes, but with big quotation marks. """"""Lawful"""""" Evil.

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7300
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Crysuko » Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:19 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Wouldn't that shoot him up to Lawful Evil on the chart then, if he's an authoritarian?

Yes, but with big quotation marks. """"""Lawful"""""" Evil.

AKA "I'm a massive asshole but I go by the rules"
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8437
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:36 pm

Valrifell wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:You either die an antithesis or live long enough to become the thesis


How do I become the synthesis?

You don't. Stay the thesis forever.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm a 21 year old Australian. Liberalism with a dash of lolbert. I don't do as much research as I should.

I'm a MTF transgender person, so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27813
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:58 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Jesus that was forever ago, I remember calling you a theocrat all the time.

You either die an antithesis or live long enough to become the thesis


I was once a Non-Denom Protestant who thought that Catholics weren't Christian and needed "saving".
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7300
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Crysuko » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:02 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:You either die an antithesis or live long enough to become the thesis


I was once a Non-Denom Protestant who thought that Catholics weren't Christian and needed "saving".

I once encountered a protestant who insisted that athiesm was a catholic plot to end protestantism once and for all, and that every single athiest was a catholic sleeper agent.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57903
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:09 pm

Oh cool, ima back the wobblies and the IW-

(1).

:(


You're all class traitors, i'm taking my video games and going home.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27813
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:10 pm

Crysuko wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
I was once a Non-Denom Protestant who thought that Catholics weren't Christian and needed "saving".

I once encountered a protestant who insisted that athiesm was a catholic plot to end protestantism once and for all, and that every single athiest was a catholic sleeper agent.


Oh boy, just wait until you hear Jack Chick.

Islam, Fascism, Communism, and Freemasonry are all Papal plots to destroy Christianity.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

User avatar
First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 816
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby First American Empire » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:12 pm

Crysuko wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
I was once a Non-Denom Protestant who thought that Catholics weren't Christian and needed "saving".

I once encountered a protestant who insisted that athiesm was a catholic plot to end protestantism once and for all, and that every single athiest was a catholic sleeper agent.


I'm morbidly curious about what that person thinks about Pagans. Do they think that we're all sleeper agents too somehow? Even those from religions that predate Catholicism?
The American Empire is a socially progressive absolute monarchy run by the heirs of Emperor Norton. It started off at MT but has rapidly advanced to PMT through interdimensional travel. All NSstats are used, except for tax rate and population. Factbooks are currently under reconstruction.

User avatar
Western Vale Confederacy
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9211
Founded: Nov 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:13 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:You either die an antithesis or live long enough to become the thesis


I was once a Non-Denom Protestant who thought that Catholics weren't Christian and needed "saving".


I find it funny how many folks of the youngest MAJOR branch of Christianity considers itself most superior.

User avatar
Greater Westralia
Envoy
 
Posts: 227
Founded: Nov 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Westralia » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:15 pm

First American Empire wrote:I'm morbidly curious about what that person thinks about Pagans. Do they think that we're all sleeper agents too somehow? Even those from religions that predate Catholicism?

Bruh, Catholicism is just Christian paganism confirmed.

Shit like the Eucharist, Saint-Worship and the pope is pagan nonsense.

/s
Unapologetic WA Supremacist

We did it once, we'll do it again!

User avatar
Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27813
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:16 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
I was once a Non-Denom Protestant who thought that Catholics weren't Christian and needed "saving".


I find it funny how many folks of the youngest MAJOR branch of Christianity considers itself most superior.


Well, on my part it was mostly what I was raised with (and some things I picked up on my own). My parents didn't teach me to hate other people or anything, but I was a teenager and I had an attitude problem and was really bloody immature.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:18 pm

Greater Westralia wrote:
First American Empire wrote:I'm morbidly curious about what that person thinks about Pagans. Do they think that we're all sleeper agents too somehow? Even those from religions that predate Catholicism?

Bruh, Catholicism is just Christian paganism confirmed.

Shit like the Eucharist, Saint-Worship and the pope is pagan nonsense.

/s


The "Saint-Worship" talking point gets me mad and I'm an atheist >.>
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

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