NationStates

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:02 pm**

Al Mumtahanah wrote:
Nakena wrote:
But saying so is not only heretic to left-liberal orthodoxy it is also raycist.

According to the prevailing views in the mainstream media.

It will, however, in the long run lead to some serious problems.

Islam allows for a critique of society from a new angle. Fatima Barkatulla talked in her show about how immodest dress is a form of sexual harassment of men by women.

Yeah, that’s fucking stupid.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:04 pm**

Ostroeuropa wrote:Welsh votes matter more than English ones too in terms of amount of representation it gives. It's part of the price countries sometimes pay in order to keep a union together. It's all well and good to demand one person one vote and equal representation when its not your way of life under threat.

The problem is soluble with more states rights, but we all know that will never happen and neither party would allow it, with dissolving the union, or with a dominant culture enforcing their views on a weaker one and effectively ending once and for all their chance at self-determination.

The latter was possible, and should have been done right after the American Civil War, but we all know where I stand regarding the Dixies and their petty attempt for making a state built on slavery.

Nakena wrote:
North German Realm wrote:That's one of my few problems with her. Welcoming Muslims into your country -in any capacity, in any form- is generally a mistake, and this one is something that she's been forced to bullshit her way through ever since.

But saying so is not only heretic to left-liberal orthodoxy it is also raycist.

According to the prevailing views in the mainstream media that is. And anyone who opposes is an almost literal nazi.

It will, however, in the long run lead to some serious problems.

Honestly? I agree that many who oppose it are literally nazis, but that's because the line between racially-oriented xenophobia and being anti-Islam is very fine, especially in Europe. Almost every single PEGIDA, for example, opposes Arabs and people of brown skin rather than Muslims.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:05 pm**

Kowani wrote:
Al Mumtahanah wrote:Islam allows for a critique of society from a new angle. Fatima Barkatulla talked in her show about how immodest dress is a form of sexual harassment of men by women.

Yeah, that’s fucking stupid.

Just as flashing someone is a form of sexual assault, dressing in a provactive way can be harassment.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:05 pm**

Al Mumtahanah wrote:
Kowani wrote:Yeah, that’s fucking stupid.

Just as flashing someone is a form of sexual assault, dressing in a provactive way can be harassment.

Fucking lmao no it isn't.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:07 pm**

Either way sexual harassment of men is being addressed by Muslims
.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:09 pm**

Al Mumtahanah wrote:
Kowani wrote:Yeah, that’s fucking stupid.

Just as flashing someone is a form of sexual assault, dressing in a provactive way can be harassment.

Broke: Women who dress that way are just asking for it.

Woke: If they didn't want to have it happen to them, they just shouldn't leave the house!

BESPOKE: Women dressing immodestly is sexual assault against men.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:10 pm**

North German Realm wrote:Honestly? I agree that many who oppose it are literally nazis, but that's because the line between racially-oriented xenophobia and being anti-Islam is very fine, especially in Europe. Almost every single PEGIDA, for example, opposes Arabs and people of brown skin rather than Muslims.

Yes and thats a very big problem. Basically the only group that opposes Islam (however dubiously) are the far-right, with the left often having an appeasing or ignoring stance regarding the matter. Or even supporting it as potential ally in the fight against the "old white man" etc.

Its not a nice situation at all.

Also regarding the literal nazis. Thats what the mainsteam media in Europe is purpoting. Being against Islam is equated with being racist. ("Islamophobia" is the keyword here)

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:11 pm**

Bojikami wrote:
Al Mumtahanah wrote:Just as flashing someone is a form of sexual assault, dressing in a provactive way can be harassment.

Broke: Women who dress that way are just asking for it.

Woke: If they didn't want to have it happen to them, they just shouldn't leave the house!

BESPOKE: Women dressing immodestly is sexual assault against men.

She didn't suggest that at all, she said a woman dressing immodestly doesn't excuse rape.

You can see at 52 minutes when she talks about this

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/h ... 0379353482

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:13 pm**

Nakena wrote:
North German Realm wrote:Honestly? I agree that many who oppose it are literally nazis, but that's because the line between racially-oriented xenophobia and being anti-Islam is very fine, especially in Europe. Almost every single PEGIDA, for example, opposes Arabs and people of brown skin rather than Muslims.

Yes and thats a very big problem. Basically the only group that opposes Islam (however dubiously) are the far-right, with the left often having an appeasing or ignoring stance regarding the matter. Or even supporting it as potential ally in the fight against the "old white man" etc.

Its not a nice situation at all.

Also regarding the literal nazis. Thats what the mainsteam media in Europe is purpoting. Being against Islam is equated with being racist. ("Islamophobia" is the keyword here)

That's the problem. Apart from a minority of ex-Muslims and other sane individuals, the loud majority of the critics of Islam in Europe are far-right, racially oriented, and authoritarian beyond belief (or a mix of these three traits).

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:15 pm**

Kowani wrote:
Al Mumtahanah wrote:Islam allows for a critique of society from a new angle. Fatima Barkatulla talked in her show about how immodest dress is a form of sexual harassment of men by women.

Yeah, that’s fucking stupid.

It facilitates sexual harassment of men in terms of pathologizing male sexuality and treating men like there is something wrong with them for being attracted to women. It does not in itself constitute sexual harassment in my opinion. It's like arguing having a coffee machine in the office is sexual harassment because women will keep being asked to make coffee.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:17 pm**

In all seriousness though, "women not wearing literal garbage sacks is sexual harassment of men" is the most incel comment I've ever heard in my life, and I'm not at all surprised it came from a Muslim.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:23 pm**

North German Realm wrote:
Nakena wrote:
Yes and thats a very big problem. Basically the only group that opposes Islam (however dubiously) are the far-right, with the left often having an appeasing or ignoring stance regarding the matter. Or even supporting it as potential ally in the fight against the "old white man" etc.

Its not a nice situation at all.

Also regarding the literal nazis. Thats what the mainsteam media in Europe is purpoting. Being against Islam is equated with being racist. ("Islamophobia" is the keyword here)
That's the problem. Apart from a minority of ex-Muslims and other sane individuals, the loud majority of the critics of Islam in Europe are far-right, racially oriented, and authoritarian beyond belief (or a mix of these three traits).

Indeed it is. There aren't many options to choose from. And all are somehow bad.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:23 pm**

North German Realm wrote:
Nakena wrote:
Yes and thats a very big problem. Basically the only group that opposes Islam (however dubiously) are the far-right, with the left often having an appeasing or ignoring stance regarding the matter. Or even supporting it as potential ally in the fight against the "old white man" etc.

Its not a nice situation at all.

Also regarding the literal nazis. Thats what the mainsteam media in Europe is purpoting. Being against Islam is equated with being racist. ("Islamophobia" is the keyword here)
That's the problem. Apart from a minority of ex-Muslims and other sane individuals, the loud majority of the critics of Islam in Europe are far-right, racially oriented, and authoritarian beyond belief (or a mix of these three traits).

The far-right is the only place where its institutions aren't corrupted by Islamophilia. There are critics of Muslims all across the political spectrum, but only the far-right gives platform to those voices. An example is Sarah Champion, the Labour Party former Equalities Minister, who after the Rotherham scandal talked about a problem with the Pakistani community and their culture, and was forced to resign, thus denying her a platform to continue to say those things.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:26 pm**

North German Realm wrote:In all seriousness though, "women not wearing literal garbage sacks is sexual harassment of men" is the most incel comment I've ever heard in my life, and I'm not at all surprised it came from a Muslim.

But Islam places great obligation on men as well, not to flirt with women and to lower their gaze when speaking to them. Very strongly against leering even at immodestly dressed women. As Fatima says the first comnand is given for men to lower their gaze and speak respectfully, the next says women must dress modestly.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:27 pm**

Al Mumtahanah wrote:
North German Realm wrote:In all seriousness though, "women not wearing literal garbage sacks is sexual harassment of men" is the most incel comment I've ever heard in my life, and I'm not at all surprised it came from a Muslim.

But Islam places great obligation on men as well, not to flirt with women and to lower their gaze when speaking to them. Very strongly against leering even at immodestly dressed women. As Fatima says the first comnand is given for men to lower their gaze and speak respectfully, the next says women must dress modestly.

We've been there, done that, it sucked.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:28 pm**

Ostroeuropa wrote:The far-right is the only place where its institutions aren't corrupted by Islamophilia. There are critics of Muslims all across the political spectrum, but only the far-right gives platform to those voices. An example is Sarah Champion, the Labour Party former Equalities Minister, who after the Rotherham scandal talked about a problem with the Pakistani community and their culture, and was forced to resign, thus denying her a platform to continue to say those things.

The problem with the far-right however is that their dislike of Islam is inherently tied to their racialist worldview.

The one thing I learned is that... for all the true believers in the far-right its all about race. (or antisemitism for the true woke ones) Everything else comes really second, is either optional or for optics only.

They don't care about Islam really. Some even do like it because its better than "jewish degeneracy". You probably heared of the White Sharia meme.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:29 pm**

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Al Mumtahanah wrote:But Islam places great obligation on men as well, not to flirt with women and to lower their gaze when speaking to them. Very strongly against leering even at immodestly dressed women. As Fatima says the first comnand is given for men to lower their gaze and speak respectfully, the next says women must dress modestly.

We've been there, done that, it sucked.

You are Muslim?

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:30 pm**

Al Mumtahanah wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
We've been there, done that, it sucked.

You are Muslim?

Western society had the same prudish dress codes and mannerisms you're describing for a long while, and we decided we didn't like it.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:32 pm**

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Al Mumtahanah wrote:You are Muslim?

Western society had the same prudish dress codes and mannerisms you're describing for a long while, and we decided we didn't like it.

You fell into pre marital relationships being common so less modest attire was better to attract people. When pre marital relationships are not permissible, modesty becomes more attractive than exhibitionism.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:33 pm**

Nakena wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:The far-right is the only place where its institutions aren't corrupted by Islamophilia. There are critics of Muslims all across the political spectrum, but only the far-right gives platform to those voices. An example is Sarah Champion, the Labour Party former Equalities Minister, who after the Rotherham scandal talked about a problem with the Pakistani community and their culture, and was forced to resign, thus denying her a platform to continue to say those things.

The problem with the far-right however is that their dislike of Islam is inherently tied to their racialist worldview.

The one thing I learned is that... for all the true believers in the far-right its all about race. (or antisemitism for the true woke ones) Everything else comes really second, is either optional or for optics only.

They don't care about Islam really. Some even do like it because its better than "jewish degeneracy". You probably heared of the White Sharia meme.

Yeah that's pretty much the case, they're exploiting pathological altruism in western institutions by leveraging these kind of issues in order to force a choice on the public, gambling that on balance, white supremacy will seem preferable to the endless parade of nonsense that has resulted from multiculturalism and the general left wing approach to demography issues.

Rejecting both frameworks in favor of a workable solution is what's needed, but nobody is willing to do it.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:33 pm**

Al Mumtahanah wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Western society had the same prudish dress codes and mannerisms you're describing for a long while, and we decided we didn't like it.

You fell into pre marital relationships being common so less modest attire was better to attract people. When pre marital relationships are not permissible, modesty becomes more attractive than exhibitionism.

Pre-marital relationships being legal are better for society.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:34 pm**

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Al Mumtahanah wrote:You fell into pre marital relationships being common so less modest attire was better to attract people. When pre marital relationships are not permissible, modesty becomes more attractive than exhibitionism.

Pre-marital relationships being legal are better for society.

How come?

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:40 pm**

Al Mumtahanah wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Pre-marital relationships being legal are better for society.

How come?

There's less adultery in societies with pre-marital sex. People who have had pre-marital sex are less likely to divorce. They're less likely to be involved in an abusive relationship. Plenty of stuff.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:43 pm**

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Nakena wrote:
The problem with the far-right however is that their dislike of Islam is inherently tied to their racialist worldview.

The one thing I learned is that... for all the true believers in the far-right its all about race. (or antisemitism for the true woke ones) Everything else comes really second, is either optional or for optics only.

They don't care about Islam really. Some even do like it because its better than "jewish degeneracy". You probably heared of the White Sharia meme.

Yeah that's pretty much the case, they're exploiting pathological altruism in western institutions by leveraging these kind of issues in order to force a choice on the public, gambling that on balance, white supremacy will seem preferable to the endless parade of nonsense that has resulted from multiculturalism and the general left wing approach to demography issues.

Rejecting both frameworks in favor of a workable solution is what's needed, but nobody is willing to do it.

In the long run the political arena in Europe will become similar with one multicultural left-liberal tent on one side and a conservative-identitarian on the other one. Both will also radicalize.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:44 pm**

Ostroeuropa wrote:The far-right is the only place where its institutions aren't corrupted by Islamophilia. There are critics of Muslims all across the political spectrum, but only the far-right gives platform to those voices. An example is Sarah Champion, the Labour Party former Equalities Minister, who after the Rotherham scandal talked about a problem with the Pakistani community and their culture, and was forced to resign, thus denying her a platform to continue to say those things.

Make no mistake, there is not a single day that I don't wonder at the sheer idiocy of the liberal-progressive elite in their pandering to Islam. There is an expression for people who pander to -and make superior- a group of people that wants to kill them, and it's called too dumb to live.

Al Mumtahanah wrote:
North German Realm wrote:In all seriousness though, "women not wearing literal garbage sacks is sexual harassment of men" is the most incel comment I've ever heard in my life, and I'm not at all surprised it came from a Muslim.

But Islam places great obligation on men as well, not to flirt with women and to lower their gaze when speaking to them. Very strongly against leering even at immodestly dressed women. As Fatima says the first comnand is given for men to lower their gaze and speak respectfully, the next says women must dress modestly.

I don't give a fuck about what Quran orders who to do. As long as those orders include forcing women to wear modestly so men don't get attracted, it's harmful, misogynistic cowdung and should be fought on every level.

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