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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25657
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:48 pm

Genivaria wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:You either die an antithesis or live long enough to become the thesis

Are you still in favor of a 'Red Tsar' ?

No, I'm an anarchist now.
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

User avatar
Hanafuridake
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5532
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:49 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:How many of you actually remember me as NSG's favorite Marxist-Leninist?


You should have stayed that way.
Nation name in proper language: 花降岳|पुष्पद्वीप
Theravada Buddhist
李贽 wrote:There is nothing difficult about becoming a sage, and nothing false about transcending the world of appearances.
Suriyanakhon's alt, finally found my old account's password

User avatar
Dresderstan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6904
Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Dresderstan » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:50 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Are you still in favor of a 'Red Tsar' ?

No, I'm an anarchist now.

Really, you never struck me as the anarchical type.
23 year old, PA male. Love sports like baseball, hockey and American football, enjoy video games and TV. Music chart nerd, can't live without it. I'm gay. Fuck neo-liberalism

Biden and Trump are traitors to America.
Imagine being shocked about the fact of greed, corruption, and abuse of power in government.
The media is a propaganda tool fueling the two parties hyperpartisanship and killing the country, it's time to end the "freedom of the press"
Violence against the government is and should be accepted by the people, especially when said government wants to and is actively stripping away your constitutional rights.
Remake the Free World, wipe the slate clean, a nation born and baptized in blood and fire shall be reborn again.

User avatar
United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25657
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:55 pm

Dresderstan wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:No, I'm an anarchist now.

Really, you never struck me as the anarchical type.

Well, a Christian anarchist.
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

User avatar
Western Vale Confederacy
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9211
Founded: Nov 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:12 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:Really, you never struck me as the anarchical type.

Well, a Christian anarchist.


Chaotic good much?

User avatar
Bienenhalde
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5988
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Bienenhalde » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:13 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:How many of you actually remember me as NSG's favorite Marxist-Leninist?


I wasn't on NS back then, but I am glad you grew out of that.

User avatar
United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25657
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:14 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Well, a Christian anarchist.


Chaotic good much?

P much.
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69788
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:17 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Chaotic good much?

P much.

Pelor finds your anarchist notions to be odd but quaint.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8437
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:21 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Well, a Christian anarchist.


Chaotic good much?

What does that make you?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm a 21 year old Australian. Liberalism with a dash of lolbert. I don't do as much research as I should.

I'm a MTF transgender person, so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:29 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Chaotic good much?

What does that make you?


Neutral Evil.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

User avatar
Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44623
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:06 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
I hereby award you the gold medal in mental gymnastics.


Technically speaking in the original hebrew it translates as something more like "thou shalt not kill without just cause" iirc.


Which only reinforces that the death penalty inherently breaks the first commandment, because there is no just cause for it.
Lib-left. Antifascist, antitankie, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist (including the imperialism of non-western countries). Christian (Unitarian Universalist). Background in physics.
Mostly a girl. She or they pronouns, please. Unrepentant transbian.
Reject tradition, embrace modernity.
People who call themselves based NEVER are.
The truth about kids transitioning.

User avatar
Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44623
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:18 pm

Yusseria wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Yeah Stalin's rule was pretty damn similar to good old Russian Imperialism.

It's almost as if the Soviet """"""""""""""""""""Union"""""""""""""""""""" was really just a continuation of the Russian Empire.


Just remember this the next time someone tries to tell you "it really was communist".
Lib-left. Antifascist, antitankie, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist (including the imperialism of non-western countries). Christian (Unitarian Universalist). Background in physics.
Mostly a girl. She or they pronouns, please. Unrepentant transbian.
Reject tradition, embrace modernity.
People who call themselves based NEVER are.
The truth about kids transitioning.

User avatar
El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:36 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
Technically speaking in the original hebrew it translates as something more like "thou shalt not kill without just cause" iirc.


Which only reinforces that the death penalty inherently breaks the first commandment, because there is no just cause for it.

Yes there is: murder and spreading corruption.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8437
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:20 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Which only reinforces that the death penalty inherently breaks the first commandment, because there is no just cause for it.

Yes there is: murder and spreading corruption.

"Spreading corruption." You could kill someone for any reason you want and all you'd have to do is say they were "spreading corruption."
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm a 21 year old Australian. Liberalism with a dash of lolbert. I don't do as much research as I should.

I'm a MTF transgender person, so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44623
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:20 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Which only reinforces that the death penalty inherently breaks the first commandment, because there is no just cause for it.

Yes there is: murder and spreading corruption.


So, your response to murder and spreading corruption, is more murder and spreading of corruption? That's like fucking for chastity.
Lib-left. Antifascist, antitankie, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist (including the imperialism of non-western countries). Christian (Unitarian Universalist). Background in physics.
Mostly a girl. She or they pronouns, please. Unrepentant transbian.
Reject tradition, embrace modernity.
People who call themselves based NEVER are.
The truth about kids transitioning.

User avatar
Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44623
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:21 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Yes there is: murder and spreading corruption.

"Spreading corruption." You could kill someone for any reason you want and all you'd have to do is say they were "spreading corruption."


Indeed. And what if I consider promoting Sharia law to be spreading corruption?
Lib-left. Antifascist, antitankie, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist (including the imperialism of non-western countries). Christian (Unitarian Universalist). Background in physics.
Mostly a girl. She or they pronouns, please. Unrepentant transbian.
Reject tradition, embrace modernity.
People who call themselves based NEVER are.
The truth about kids transitioning.

User avatar
El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:26 pm

Grenartia wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Yes there is: murder and spreading corruption.


So, your response to murder and spreading corruption, is more murder and spreading of corruption? That's like fucking for chastity.

I didn't say anything about promoting spreading corruption.
Last edited by El-Amin Caliphate on Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

User avatar
El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:27 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Yes there is: murder and spreading corruption.

"Spreading corruption." You could kill someone for any reason you want and all you'd have to do is say they were "spreading corruption."

You can always ask questions instead of making assumptions.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53356
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:33 pm

Grenartia wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:"Spreading corruption." You could kill someone for any reason you want and all you'd have to do is say they were "spreading corruption."


Indeed. And what if I consider promoting Sharia law to be spreading corruption?


Then you're enslaved. In an Islamic fashion of course.
Last edited by Washington Resistance Army on Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8437
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:33 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:"Spreading corruption." You could kill someone for any reason you want and all you'd have to do is say they were "spreading corruption."

You can always ask questions instead of making assumptions.

You're right. How about these questions? What would meet the legal definition of spreading corruption in your ideal world? And, how would someone defend themselves from that charge?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm a 21 year old Australian. Liberalism with a dash of lolbert. I don't do as much research as I should.

I'm a MTF transgender person, so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:54 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:You can always ask questions instead of making assumptions.

You're right. How about these questions? What would meet the legal definition of spreading corruption in your ideal world? And, how would someone defend themselves from that charge?

People don't "Defend" themselves from charges in Islamic jurisprudence. There's no "prosecution and defense". That's a western thing you're interjecting into an ideal that believes "Guilty until we prove they were guilty" (To wit, if the prosecution can't build a case -have a good daleel or enough witnesses-, the accused gets off scot free.)
Of course, thankfully most Islamic Countries also employ the quasi-western court model (the accused gets a fucking lawyer)
Last edited by North German Realm on Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
Western Vale Confederacy
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9211
Founded: Nov 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:55 pm

Valrifell wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:What does that make you?


Neutral Evil.


Or Chaotic Good.

User avatar
El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:25 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:You can always ask questions instead of making assumptions.

You're right. How about these questions? What would meet the legal definition of spreading corruption in your ideal world?

It doesn't matter what my ideal world says, it matters what Shari'ah says. As for that, all I can think of if would be treason, or a Muslim actively doing something to undermine either Al-Islam or society. I'd have to look this up tho.
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:And, how would someone defend themselves from that charge?

Same way they do in kufr courtes, with lawyers, attorneys, etc.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

User avatar
Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45251
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:34 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Indeed. And what if I consider promoting Sharia law to be spreading corruption?


Then you're enslaved. In an Islamic fashion of course.


Islamic slaves are like house elves, only they're fed and sustained by the master's piety and benevolence rather than magic.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
★彡 Professional pessimist. Reactionary socialist and gamer liberationist. Coffee addict. Fun at parties 彡★
Freedom is when people agree with you, and the more people you can force to act like they agree the freer society is
You are the trolley problem's conductor. You could stop the train in time but you do not. Nobody knows you're part of the equation. You satisfy your bloodlust and get away with it every time

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:43 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Then you're enslaved. In an Islamic fashion of course.


Islamic slaves are like house elves, only they're fed and sustained by the master's piety and benevolence rather than magic.

*coughs* And they are freed if Master gives them clothes accepts they've converted.
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-----------------
-----------------
North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

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