LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[Salus Maior]

Nazis also did forced labor, working Jews/POWs/etc. to death.

Again, a thin line (if that) separates the kind of people the Soviets and Nazis were.

The Soviets sent people to camps for different reasons. It was to keep the state unopposed. The Nazis killed for no logical reason. Also, the Soviets hated monarchists and fascists most while the Nazis hated Marxists and liberals. The Soviets didn’t start WW2 and weren’t just racists with guns.

The Nazis most certainly did it for that reason, alongside their racial purity schtick that they didn't really stick to anyway.

Yes, planning to divide Poland between them and then doing just that isn't complicit at all.

[Valrifell]

They'd do that voluntarily and would probably put themselves to better work/tasks. Like if you give them the option to get a degree while there.

Bettering your prisoners makes them more productive, which would pay for itself far better than forced labor.

I am not talking about normal prisoners who actually have a chance at a better life once out of prison because of shorter sentences, I am talking about prisoners sentenced to life.

Abolish life sentencing, the real crazies can go to a psych ward.

[Torrocca]

10/10 strawman as always.

Even if they can't be rehabilitated, that's no excuse to turn them into fucking slaves.

I agree. I'm just taking issue with your "prisoner rehabilitation" thing.

I don't mind rehabilitation, but it has it's limits.

Alright then.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

The Nazis most certainly did it for that reason, alongside their racial purity schtick that they didn't really stick to anyway.

Yes, planning to divide Poland between them and then doing just that isn't complicit at all.

They didn’t start it, they just did what could help them throughout the war. Otherwise, Finland is the worst of the worst. Working with Nazis and Soviets and getting invaded by both sides, smh.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

10/10 strawman as always.

Even if they can't be rehabilitated, that's no excuse to turn them into fucking slaves.

Fake news, Classical Liberalist. I am Stalin. >:3

[United Muscovite Nations]

The Soviets sent people to camps for different reasons. It was to keep the state unopposed. The Nazis killed for no logical reason. Also, the Soviets hated monarchists and fascists most while the Nazis hated Marxists and liberals. The Soviets didn’t start WW2 and weren’t just racists with guns.

The Nazis most certainly did it for that reason, alongside their racial purity schtick that they didn't really stick to anyway.

Yes, planning to divide Poland between them and then doing just that isn't complicit at all.

The Soviet Union had spent several years by this point trying to negotiate with Britain and France to guarantee the independence of Poland, with France wanting such an alliance, but Britain pressuring France not to accept, after the British and French did nothing about Czechoslovakia, the Soviets decided that the British and French were not reliable partners and sought to divide Poland for the purpose of having more buffer from German expansion in the event of war. The thinking was that Germany and France would end up duking out for a few years and the Red Army would march in almost unopposed. That events happened the way they did not subtracting from the intention to look out for their best interests.

[Proctopeo]

If we make em work, work that can't really be adequately compensated, it's slavery. Actual slavery.
And in any case, it does not one any good to make an economic incentive for handing out life sentences

slavery is a false flag by the barbary shadow government

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

If we make em work, work that can't really be adequately compensated, it's slavery. Actual slavery.
And in any case, it does not one any good to make an economic incentive for handing out life sentences

slavery is a false flag by the barbary shadow government

No u?

[Salus Maior]

The Nazis most certainly did it for that reason, alongside their racial purity schtick that they didn't really stick to anyway.

Yes, planning to divide Poland between them and then doing just that isn't complicit at all.

The Soviet Union had spent several years by this point trying to negotiate with Britain and France to guarantee the independence of Poland, with France wanting such an alliance, but Britain pressuring France not to accept, after the British and French did nothing about Czechoslovakia, the Soviets decided that the British and French were not reliable partners and sought to divide Poland for the purpose of having more buffer from German expansion in the event of war. The thinking was that Germany and France would end up duking out for a few years and the Red Army would march in almost unopposed. That events happened the way they did not subtracting from the intention to look out for their best interests.

Considering that the Soviets were eager to get the territory they lost to the Poles in the 20's back, I'm going to case a biiiig doubt that they were so generous when it came to the status of Poland. Especially considering that they blatantly planned to destroy Polish independence with Germany and did just that.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The Soviet Union had spent several years by this point trying to negotiate with Britain and France to guarantee the independence of Poland, with France wanting such an alliance, but Britain pressuring France not to accept, after the British and French did nothing about Czechoslovakia, the Soviets decided that the British and French were not reliable partners and sought to divide Poland for the purpose of having more buffer from German expansion in the event of war. The thinking was that Germany and France would end up duking out for a few years and the Red Army would march in almost unopposed. That events happened the way they did not subtracting from the intention to look out for their best interests.

Considering that the Soviets were eager to get the territory they lost to the Poles in the 20's back, I'm going to case a biiiig doubt that they were so generous when it came to the status of Poland. Especially considering that they blatantly planned to destroy Polish independence with Germany and did just that.

It's a well-known fact.

Starting in mid-March 1939, in attempts to contain Hitler's expansionism, the Soviet Union, Britain and France traded a flurry of suggestions and counterplans regarding a potential political and military agreement.[50][51] Although informal consultations commenced in April, the main negotiations began only in May.[51] At the same time, throughout early 1939, Germany had secretly hinted to Soviet diplomats that it could offer better terms for a political agreement than Britain and France.[52][53][54]

The Soviet Union, which feared Western powers and the possibility of "capitalist encirclements", had little faith either that war could be avoided, or faith in the Polish army, and wanted nothing less than an ironclad military alliance with France and Britain[55] that would provide a guaranteed support for a two-pronged attack on Germany;[56] thus, Stalin's adherence to the collective security line was purely conditional.[57] Britain and France believed that war could still be avoided, and that the Soviet Union, weakened by the Great Purge,[58] could not be a main military participant,[56] a point that many military sources[clarification needed] were at variance with, especially given the Soviet victories over the Japanese Kwantung Army on the Manchurian frontier.[59] France was more anxious to find an agreement with the USSR than was Britain; as a continental power, it was more willing to make concessions and more fearful of the dangers of an agreement between the USSR and Germany.[60] These contrasting attitudes partly explain why the USSR has often been charged with playing a double game in 1939: carrying on open negotiations for an alliance with Britain and France while secretly considering propositions from Germany.[60]

By the end of May, drafts were formally presented.[51] In mid-June, the main Tripartite negotiations started.[61] The discussion was focused on potential guarantees to central and east European countries should a German aggression arise.[62] The USSR proposed to consider that a political turn towards Germany by the Baltic states would constitute an "indirect aggression" towards the Soviet Union.[63] Britain opposed such proposals, because they feared the Soviets' proposed language could justify a Soviet intervention in Finland and the Baltic states, or push those countries to seek closer relations with Germany.[64][65] The discussion about a definition of "indirect aggression" became one of the sticking points between the parties, and by mid-July, the tripartite political negotiations effectively stalled, while the parties agreed to start negotiations on a military agreement, which the Soviets insisted must be entered into simultaneously with any political agreement.[66] One day before the military negotiations began, the politburo of CPSU, pessimistically expecting that the coming negotiations were going nowhere, formally decided to consider German proposals seriously.[67] The military negotiations began on August 12 in Moscow with British delegation headed by Sir Reginald Drax, a retired Admiral, French delegation headed by General Aimé Doumenc and Soviet delegation headed by Kliment Voroshilov, the commissar of defense and Boris Shaposhnikov, chief of the general staff. Without written credentials, Drax was not authorized to guarantee anything to the Soviet Union and instructed by the British government to prolong the discussions as long as possible and avoid answering the question that whether Poland would agree to permit Soviet troops to enter the country if the Germans invaded.[68] As the negotiations failed, a great opportunity to prevent the German aggression was probably lost.[69]

[Genivaria]

The Soviet Union had spent several years by this point trying to negotiate with Britain and France to guarantee the independence of Poland, with France wanting such an alliance, but Britain pressuring France not to accept, after the British and French did nothing about Czechoslovakia, the Soviets decided that the British and French were not reliable partners and sought to divide Poland for the purpose of having more buffer from German expansion in the event of war. The thinking was that Germany and France would end up duking out for a few years and the Red Army would march in almost unopposed. That events happened the way they did not subtracting from the intention to look out for their best interests.

Considering that the Soviets were eager to get the territory they lost to the Poles in the 20's back, I'm going to case a biiiig doubt that they were so generous when it came to the status of Poland. Especially considering that they blatantly planned to destroy Polish independence with Germany and did just that.

Yeah Stalin's rule was pretty damn similar to good old Russian Imperialism.

[Salus Maior]

Considering that the Soviets were eager to get the territory they lost to the Poles in the 20's back, I'm going to case a biiiig doubt that they were so generous when it came to the status of Poland. Especially considering that they blatantly planned to destroy Polish independence with Germany and did just that.

Yeah Stalin's rule was pretty damn similar to good old Russian Imperialism.

Oh goodness no. Tsarist Russia was way better.

[Genivaria]

Yeah Stalin's rule was pretty damn similar to good old Russian Imperialism.

Oh goodness no. Tsarist Russia was way better.

I mean in regards to Imperialism and Foreign Policy, Stalin was very much a red nationalist.

[Valrifell]

Yeah Stalin's rule was pretty damn similar to good old Russian Imperialism.

Oh goodness no. Tsarist Russia was way better.

If you like being a backwater serf.

Stalin, for all his faults and the misery he put the Russian people to, commanded more international power than the late Tsars could ever dream of.

[Northern Davincia]

Oh goodness no. Tsarist Russia was way better.

If you like being a backwater serf.

Stalin, for all his faults and the misery he put the Russian people to, commanded more international power than the late Tsars could ever dream of.

At the expense of backwater serfs. There's no winning in Russian history for the common man.

[Salus Maior]

Oh goodness no. Tsarist Russia was way better.

If you like being a backwater serf.

Stalin, for all his faults and the misery he put the Russian people to, commanded more international power than the late Tsars could ever dream of.

Serfdom was literally banned in the mid-19th century.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Some prisoners simply can't rehabilitated.

Or do you think we should "rehabilitate" the Christchurch shooter?

10/10 strawman as always.

Even if they can't be rehabilitated, that's no excuse to turn them into fucking slaves.

I never thought I'd agree with you, but I do here.

[Yusseria]

Considering that the Soviets were eager to get the territory they lost to the Poles in the 20's back, I'm going to case a biiiig doubt that they were so generous when it came to the status of Poland. Especially considering that they blatantly planned to destroy Polish independence with Germany and did just that.

Yeah Stalin's rule was pretty damn similar to good old Russian Imperialism.

It's almost as if the Soviet """"""""""""""""""""Union"""""""""""""""""""" was really just a continuation of the Russian Empire.

[Valrifell]

If you like being a backwater serf.

Stalin, for all his faults and the misery he put the Russian people to, commanded more international power than the late Tsars could ever dream of.

Serfdom was literally banned in the mid-19th century.

A legal technicality.

[United Muscovite Nations]

How many of you actually remember me as NSG's favorite Marxist-Leninist?

[Genivaria]

How many of you actually remember me as NSG's favorite Marxist-Leninist?

Jesus that was forever ago, I remember calling you a theocrat all the time.

[United Muscovite Nations]

How many of you actually remember me as NSG's favorite Marxist-Leninist?

Jesus that was forever ago, I remember calling you a theocrat all the time.

You either die an antithesis or live long enough to become the thesis

[Valrifell]

Jesus that was forever ago, I remember calling you a theocrat all the time.

You either die an antithesis or live long enough to become the thesis

How do I become the synthesis?

[United Muscovite Nations]

You either die an antithesis or live long enough to become the thesis

How do I become the synthesis?

By being a New Soviet Man.

[Genivaria]

Jesus that was forever ago, I remember calling you a theocrat all the time.

You either die an antithesis or live long enough to become the thesis

Are you still in favor of a 'Red Tsar' ?