LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[Thanatttynia]

1. The death penalty could be argued to be murder.

It's not:

"the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another."

The death penalty is neither unlawful or very premeditated.

The death penalty is textbook premeditated. 'Unlawful'... if a hypothetical country had no laws against murder, it wouldn't mean murder couldn't happen there, no? So that doesn't seem applicable either. I don't think we should be relying on modern nationstates to define a moral question for us.

[Liriena]

So what do you all think of East Germany and the Soviet Bloc in general?

I'd probably prefer them to any given far right dictatorship, but not by that much.

[Dumb Ideologies]

My views have fluctuated quite a bit, when I first got involved in politics a couple of years back, I was a Berniecrat socdem, I spent some time as a tankie, but by far my darkest days had to be my “social justice” days. And now I’m an ambivalent and apathetic Trot.

Why are you ambivalent and apathetic about it? Isn't it better to support a communist tendency enthusiastically?

The persistence of doubt is a symptom of intellectual openness. It is not to be liquidated like so many dissenting grain hoarders.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

So lately I’ve been having a crisis of ideals, and I’m considering returning to my old self.

If you're thinking of going back to Democratic Socialism, I would say that's a good idea, but then, I'm kinda biased.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Why are you ambivalent and apathetic about it? Isn't it better to support a communist tendency enthusiastically?

The persistence of doubt is a symptom of intellectual openness. It is not to be liquidated like so many dissenting grain hoarders.

This. One who does not hesitate is lost.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

So what do you all think of East Germany and the Soviet Bloc in general?

I'd probably prefer them to any given far right dictatorship, but not by that much.

Good thing you don't have to choose between them then.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

1. The death penalty could be argued to be murder.

It's not:

"the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another."

The death penalty is neither unlawful or very premeditated.

I would say it is premeditated, but not unlawful. Either way, it is not murder, except if misused.

[The South Falls]

I'd probably prefer them to any given far right dictatorship, but not by that much.

Good thing you don't have to choose between them then.

Everyone in the 1990 was forced to.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

1. The death penalty could be argued to be murder.

It's not:

"the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another."

The death penalty is neither unlawful or very premeditated.

It absolutely is premeditated, it takes weeks to months between the death sentence being given and it being carried out. And in my country the death penalty is unlawful.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Good thing you don't have to choose between them then.

Everyone in the 1990 was forced to.

In 1990 where?

[Western Vale Confederacy]

I used to be for the death penalty, but as my political stances shifted more and more onto the pragmatic side, I see the pointlessness of executing somebody that has already been disarmed and detained, effectively rendering him harmless.

Forced labour would be a far more efficient use of their lives anyways.

I like how in a conversation on the death penalty you still somehow manage to pull the worst response out by far by promoting slavery.

And you’d prefer for them to sit in their cells twiddling their thumbs doing fuck all for the rest of their lives?

Life sentences are a financial drain, might as well make use of their labour by making them work. It’s not like I’m forcing them to pickaxe rocks for the rest of their goddamn lives, it’s usually cleaning duty or other prison maintenance tasks.

[Valrifell]

I like how in a conversation on the death penalty you still somehow manage to pull the worst response out by far by promoting slavery.

And you’d prefer for them to sit in their cells twiddling their thumbs doing fuck all for the rest of their lives?

Life sentences are a financial drain, might as well make use of their labour by making them work. It’s not like I’m forcing them to pickaxe rocks for the rest of their goddamn lives, it’s usually cleaning duty or other prison maintenance tasks.

They'd do that voluntarily and would probably put themselves to better work/tasks. Like if you give them the option to get a degree while there.

Bettering your prisoners makes them more productive, which would pay for itself far better than forced labor.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

And you’d prefer for them to sit in their cells twiddling their thumbs doing fuck all for the rest of their lives?

Life sentences are a financial drain, might as well make use of their labour by making them work. It’s not like I’m forcing them to pickaxe rocks for the rest of their goddamn lives, it’s usually cleaning duty or other prison maintenance tasks.

They'd do that voluntarily and would probably put themselves to better work/tasks. Like if you give them the option to get a degree while there.

Bettering your prisoners makes them more productive, which would pay for itself far better than forced labor.

I am not talking about normal prisoners who actually have a chance at a better life once out of prison because of shorter sentences, I am talking about prisoners sentenced to life.

[Kubra]

If we make em work, work that can't really be adequately compensated, it's slavery. Actual slavery.
And in any case, it does not one any good to make an economic incentive for handing out life sentences

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

If we make em work, work that can't really be adequately compensated, it's slavery. Actual slavery.
And in any case, it does not one any good to make an economic incentive for handing out life sentences

Gulags were an effective system, prove me wrong.

[Torrocca]

I like how in a conversation on the death penalty you still somehow manage to pull the worst response out by far by promoting slavery.

And you’d prefer for them to sit in their cells twiddling their thumbs doing fuck all for the rest of their lives?

I'd prefer prisoner rehabilitation over literal slavery, thank you very much.

[Salus Maior]

If we make em work, work that can't really be adequately compensated, it's slavery. Actual slavery.
And in any case, it does not one any good to make an economic incentive for handing out life sentences

Gulags were an effective system, prove me wrong.

Fun fact: I dated a Russian briefly, and she told me that the actual name of these facilities were not "Gulags" (Gulag is the name of one facility) in Russian they're literally called Concentration Camps.

I'm not sure you want to say that "Concentration Camps were an effective system".

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

I'd prefer prisoner rehabilitation over literal slavery, thank you very much.

Says Stalin in disguise.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Fun fact: I dated a Russian briefly, and she told me that the actual name of these facilities were not "Gulags" (Gulag is the name of one facility) in Russian they're literally called Concentration Camps.

I'm not sure you want to say that "Concentration Camps were an effective system".

ACTUALLY they were labor camps. The stupid Nazis gassed Jews, superior Soviets worked kulaks to death.

[Salus Maior]

Fun fact: I dated a Russian briefly, and she told me that the actual name of these facilities were not "Gulags" (Gulag is the name of one facility) in Russian they're literally called Concentration Camps.

I'm not sure you want to say that "Concentration Camps were an effective system".

ACTUALLY they were labor camps. The stupid Nazis gassed Jews, superior Soviets worked kulaks to death.

Nazis also did forced labor, working Jews/POWs/etc. to death.

Again, a thin line (if that) separates the kind of people the Soviets and Nazis were.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Nazis also did forced labor, working Jews/POWs/etc. to death.

Again, a thin line (if that) separates the kind of people the Soviets and Nazis were.

The Soviets sent people to camps for different reasons. It was to keep the state unopposed. The Nazis killed for no logical reason. Also, the Soviets hated monarchists and fascists most while the Nazis hated Marxists and liberals. The Soviets didn’t start WW2 and weren’t just racists with guns.

[Yusseria]

And you’d prefer for them to sit in their cells twiddling their thumbs doing fuck all for the rest of their lives?

I'd prefer prisoner rehabilitation over literal slavery, thank you very much.

Some prisoners simply can't rehabilitated.

Or do you think we should "rehabilitate" the Christchurch shooter?

[Torrocca]

I'd prefer prisoner rehabilitation over literal slavery, thank you very much.

Some prisoners simply can't rehabilitated.

Or do you think we should "rehabilitate" the Christchurch shooter?

10/10 strawman as always.

Even if they can't be rehabilitated, that's no excuse to turn them into fucking slaves.

[Yusseria]

Some prisoners simply can't rehabilitated.

Or do you think we should "rehabilitate" the Christchurch shooter?

10/10 strawman as always.

Even if they can't be rehabilitated, that's no excuse to turn them into fucking slaves.

I agree. I'm just taking issue with your "prisoner rehabilitation" thing.

I don't mind rehabilitation, but it has it's limits.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

10/10 strawman as always.

Even if they can't be rehabilitated, that's no excuse to turn them into fucking slaves.

Look at the Soviet Union. You’re both socialist.