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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

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Byzconia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1123
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:35 pm

Yusseria wrote:
Byzconia wrote:Right-wingers: "Facts don't care about your feelings!"

Also Right-wingers: "You know, I feel really insulted by you pointing out those facts about my self-professed ideology."

Literally zero of what you said is relevant. National Syndicalism is the ideological precursor of Fascism, the fact you don't like that doesn't make it not true.

I don't really care dude lmao. I don't take it to the lengths of fascism.

Which still isn't relevant to what I said.
Populist social democrat. Share Our Wealth! Every man a king!

"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read: 'All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy." - Abraham Lincoln

9Axes

User avatar
Greater Westralia
Envoy
 
Posts: 227
Founded: Nov 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Westralia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:35 pm

Uiiop wrote:Making a joke involving Nazism doesn't inherently mean it makes nazism the butt of a joke.
"I made a dog do a bad thing. Umad." regradless of his right to make it doesn't quite the same punch as "Nazism will come back again under a wimpy flimsy disguise." Does it?

British propagandists literally had marching Nazis do the quadrille (or some other dance) by re-editing scenes from Triumph of the Will.

Their propaganda wasn't really high-brow.
Unapologetic WA Supremacist

We did it once, we'll do it again!

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New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37415
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:36 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:So, the Bernie Bros are acting as bad as Trump Supporters to people not supporting him.



And in other news, water is wet.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

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Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6362
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:36 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:So, the Bernie Bros are acting as bad as Trump Supporters to people not supporting him.

elaborate
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Uiiop
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5804
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Uiiop » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:36 pm

Byzconia wrote:
Crysuko wrote:in my experience, right and racist are mutually inclusive. I can't speak for everyone though.

Anglo-Saxon conservatism does tend to have a large degree of implicit racism in it, but it's important to distinguish between actual racists and people who are simply uninformed about the racist connotations of certain arguments/ideas.

Uiiop wrote:This cuts both ways mind.
Just like "It was a just a joke" doesn't make a statement inherently harmless. ""Making light of the mass murder of millions of innocent people" doesn't make a statement harmful by itself.
It's not like a joke can't be aimed at how fucked up the murders are or how good the screams must have sounded. Or in this case it seems "Ohh i made him do a baad thing."

Yes, it absolutely fucking does.

How?
You can make a joke about it and still take it as the fucked up atrocities they are.
Last edited by Uiiop on Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60834
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liriena » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:36 pm

Yusseria wrote:
Liriena wrote:By "regurgitate" you mean when I point out that right-wing "memes" like the NPC thing are huge self-owns that prove the exact opposite point they were created to make?

When you try and use our own memes against us, yes. Honestly, you just end up proving how funny they are, tbh.

"NPC"

"Saying NPC over and over is kinda NPC-ish, tho"

"That proves it's funny!"

Uh... yeah, as I said: huge self-own.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76677
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:37 pm

Byzconia wrote:
Yusseria wrote:I gotta say I've pretty much gotten numb to being called a fascist and a Nazi. Doesn't really even phase me anymore.

It's almost like when someone has a really weird name and people constantly mispronounce. You just stop caring and tune out the noise.

Right-wingers: "Facts don't care about your feelings!"

Also Right-wingers: "You know, I feel really insulted by you pointing out those facts about my self-professed ideology."

Literally zero of what you said is relevant. National Syndicalism is the ideological precursor of Fascism, the fact you don't like that doesn't make it not true.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8228
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:37 pm

@Crysuko @Byzconia

ahem; MONTY PYTHON!
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm a 19 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:37 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:So, the Bernie Bros are acting as bad as Trump Supporters to people not supporting him.

You didn't realize this the last time?

Bernie Bros are absolutely insufferable people.

I mean, who the fuck unironically says "Feel the Bern" without realizing how cringe-inducing it is?
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15283
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:37 pm

Crysuko wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I wouldn't consider teaching your dog how to nazi salute be anything horrible, but it's a little messed up tho. Also, the dude's intention was just to tease his girlfriend iirc, not cause a whole ruckus.

then why put it up on youtube, he was stirring sh*t and got upset when it blew up in his face.

Tbh both sides overracted: one side for punishing him for a joke, however tasteless, and him for doing something while not thinking it through.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

User avatar
Byzconia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1123
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:37 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Byzconia wrote:Why, hello, Mr. Strawman, fancy seeing you here! (Also, under no definition of the phrase does a liberal socialist qualify as "far-left.")

If you think Dankula ought to be charged with anything, you're not far-left, you're far-gone.

"Disagreeing with me on one specific issue means you're literally worse than Stalin!!!!!!" (since I'm assuming your intent is to make "far-gone" worse than "far-left")
Populist social democrat. Share Our Wealth! Every man a king!

"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read: 'All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy." - Abraham Lincoln

9Axes

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60834
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liriena » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:38 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:So, the Bernie Bros are acting as bad as Trump Supporters to people not supporting him.

I can see why some people would find Bernie's most ardent supporters obnoxious... but I can't really blame them, for the most part.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:38 pm

Liriena wrote:
Yusseria wrote:When you try and use our own memes against us, yes. Honestly, you just end up proving how funny they are, tbh.

"NPC"

"Saying NPC over and over is kinda NPC-ish, tho"

"That proves it's funny!"

Uh... yeah, as I said: huge self-own.

That's not even the meme, friendo.

The meme isn't just repeating the phrase "NPC" over and over.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
Byzconia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1123
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:38 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:So, the Bernie Bros are acting as bad as Trump Supporters to people not supporting him.

Source?
Populist social democrat. Share Our Wealth! Every man a king!

"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read: 'All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy." - Abraham Lincoln

9Axes

User avatar
First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 809
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby First American Empire » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:38 pm

Yusseria wrote:It's almost like when someone has a really weird name and people constantly mispronounce it. You just stop caring and tune out the noise.


Trust me, those of us with weird names never "just stop caring and tune out the noise".
The American Empire is a socially progressive and strongly anti-nationalist absolute monarchy ruled by the heirs of Emperor Norton.

This nation doesn't reflect my political views on many issues, especially monarchism and foreign policy. I'm an ordinary social democrat in real life.

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6362
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:38 pm

Yusseria wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:So, the Bernie Bros are acting as bad as Trump Supporters to people not supporting him.

You didn't realize this the last time?

Bernie Bros are absolutely insufferable people.

I mean, who the fuck unironically says "Feel the Bern" without realizing how cringe-inducing it is?

You didn't realize this the last time?

Trumpists are absolutely insufferable people.

I mean, who the fuck unironically says "Can't Stump The Trump" without realizing how cringe-inducing it is?
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37415
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:39 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:@Crysuko @Byzconia

ahem; MONTY PYTHON!

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for government!
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8228
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:40 pm

Byzconia wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:If you think Dankula ought to be charged with anything, you're not far-left, you're far-gone.

"Disagreeing with me on one specific issue means you're literally worse than Stalin!!!!!!" (since I'm assuming your intent is to make "far-gone" worse than "far-left")

Wanting to put the Monty Python crew in jail is pretty bad, imo.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm a 19 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37415
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:40 pm

Yusseria wrote:
Byzconia wrote:Rather hilarious coming from the guy who calls himself a National Syndicalist (the ideological predecessors of Fascism who explicitly called for a crackdown on all forms of individualism and freedom).

I gotta say I've pretty much gotten numb to being called a fascist and a Nazi. Doesn't really even phase me anymore.

It's almost like when someone has a really weird name and people constantly mispronounce it. You just stop caring and tune out the noise.

You'd think that's the case...
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6362
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:40 pm

New haven america wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:@Crysuko @Byzconia

ahem; MONTY PYTHON!

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for government!

Image
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6945
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:41 pm

Crysuko wrote:
Yusseria wrote:You didn't realize this the last time?

Bernie Bros are absolutely insufferable people.

I mean, who the fuck unironically says "Feel the Bern" without realizing how cringe-inducing it is?

You didn't realize this the last time?

Trumpists are absolutely insufferable people.

I mean, who the fuck unironically says "Can't Stump The Trump" without realizing how cringe-inducing it is?

I say that about people who openly admit to wanting to silence me.
China Lied, People Died.
Anti-imperialism is really code for anti-west.
Not to be confused with Novus America! We are NOT the same player.

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2342
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:41 pm

Crysuko wrote:
Yusseria wrote:You didn't realize this the last time?

Bernie Bros are absolutely insufferable people.

I mean, who the fuck unironically says "Feel the Bern" without realizing how cringe-inducing it is?

You didn't realize this the last time?

Trumpists are absolutely insufferable people.

I mean, who the fuck unironically says "Can't Stump The Trump" without realizing how cringe-inducing it is?

Whataboutism, but still true I must say.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15283
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:41 pm

First American Empire wrote:
Yusseria wrote:It's almost like when someone has a really weird name and people constantly mispronounce it. You just stop caring and tune out the noise.


Trust me, those of us with weird names never "just stop caring and tune out the noise".

Well, some if us do. My brother has what would be thought of as a "weird name" - at least in America - he just lets peeps call him by the 1st letter of his name. Me on the other hand, no. I correct people when they say my last name incorrectly.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76677
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:41 pm

Liriena wrote:
Yusseria wrote:When you try and use our own memes against us, yes. Honestly, you just end up proving how funny they are, tbh.

"NPC"

"Saying NPC over and over is kinda NPC-ish, tho"

"That proves it's funny!"

Uh... yeah, as I said: huge self-own.

Real shit
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Byzconia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1123
Founded: Nov 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzconia » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:41 pm

Uiiop wrote:
Byzconia wrote:Anglo-Saxon conservatism does tend to have a large degree of implicit racism in it, but it's important to distinguish between actual racists and people who are simply uninformed about the racist connotations of certain arguments/ideas.


Yes, it absolutely fucking does.

How?
You can make a joke about it and still take it as the fucked up atrocities they are.

Making jokes of situations inherently lightens the weight those situations carry in people's minds. It goes back to the fact that repetition makes an idea more palatable to people. Even if your intent isn't to lighten the impact of the Holocaust, constantly making light of it will have that exact effect on people, even if they themselves don't realize it.
Populist social democrat. Share Our Wealth! Every man a king!

"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read: 'All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy." - Abraham Lincoln

9Axes

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