NATION

PASSWORD

LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5792
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:20 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:How? How does freedom corrupt the government? From what I can tell, it tends to be unfree nations that have the most corrupt governments, such as North Korea.

Freedom to fund certain public officials, for one. That's kind of the definition of corruption. Additionally, lack of restrictions on corporations led to the rise of political machines in places like NYC during the Gilded Age. It is in the light of restrictions on those freedoms that prosperity emerged.

It doesn't contradict my view of freedom to restrict money from entering the political process.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4553
Founded: May 23, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Pacomia » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:22 pm

500th page!
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
CURRENT HDI: 0.87547 (similar to Malta)
Also known as Dollar Store Kowani_________#EternalLotharia2020

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1671
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:22 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Freedom to fund certain public officials, for one. That's kind of the definition of corruption. Additionally, lack of restrictions on corporations led to the rise of political machines in places like NYC during the Gilded Age. It is in the light of restrictions on those freedoms that prosperity emerged.

It doesn't contradict my view of freedom to restrict money from entering the political process.

It does make the government more corrupt, though.
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5792
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:22 pm

Page 500!
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4553
Founded: May 23, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Pacomia » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:23 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:It doesn't contradict my view of freedom to restrict money from entering the political process.

It does make the government more corrupt, though.

Not as corrupt as most more unfree nations.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
CURRENT HDI: 0.87547 (similar to Malta)
Also known as Dollar Store Kowani_________#EternalLotharia2020

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5792
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:23 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:It doesn't contradict my view of freedom to restrict money from entering the political process.

It does make the government more corrupt, though.

No, I said, restricting money from being donated to public officials does not contradict my view of freedom.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25909
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:23 pm

Eyy, we finally hit page 500.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16750
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:23 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Page 500!

Yay. :p
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5792
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:24 pm

Pacomia wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:It does make the government more corrupt, though.

Not as corrupt as most more unfree nations.

Indeed.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5792
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:25 pm

Kowani wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Page 500!

Yay. :p

You should be the next OP.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1671
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:27 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:It does make the government more corrupt, though.

No, I said, restricting money from being donated to public officials does not contradict my view of freedom.

Ah, okay. Then I'd say that we have different definitions, perhaps, of freedom.
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8658
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:27 pm

Kowani wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:It's because their ideology is pointless. "Muh Freedom"

But why freedom?

Freedom is of no inherent value.


Image
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5792
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:29 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:No, I said, restricting money from being donated to public officials does not contradict my view of freedom.

Ah, okay. Then I'd say that we have different definitions, perhaps, of freedom.

Mine is personal and economic autonomy as much as humanly and reasonably possible. I just have a more anti-corruption attitude to politics, as I know megadoners create a system of cronyism.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16750
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:29 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Kowani wrote:Yay. :p

You should be the next OP.

By Satan, no! lol2:

Chernoslavia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Freedom is of no inherent value.


Image

Compelling.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1671
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:30 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Ah, okay. Then I'd say that we have different definitions, perhaps, of freedom.

Mine is personal and economic autonomy as much as humanly and reasonably possible. I just have a more anti-corruption attitude to politics, as I know megadoners create a system of cronyism.

Doesn't that "as much as possible" run into your opinion on money in politics?
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:31 pm

So who's the OP of LWDT VIII?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1671
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:31 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:So who's the OP of LWDT VIII?

I vote Kowani
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5792
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:32 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Mine is personal and economic autonomy as much as humanly and reasonably possible. I just have a more anti-corruption attitude to politics, as I know megadoners create a system of cronyism.

Doesn't that "as much as possible" run into your opinion on money in politics?

Not in my case. I said "humanly and reasonably possible," I don't think having a system run by megadoners is reasonable. It is just legalized corruption.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8658
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:32 pm

Kowani wrote:

Compelling.[/quote]

Likewise.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32860
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:32 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Ah, okay. Then I'd say that we have different definitions, perhaps, of freedom.

Mine is personal and economic autonomy as much as humanly and reasonably possible. I just have a more anti-corruption attitude to politics, as I know megadoners create a system of cronyism.

That's an oxymoron.

You can't have total economic autonomy while also disallowing politicians from getting funded by megadonors. They're spending and making money how they choose to.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25909
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:33 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:So who's the OP of LWDT VIII?

I vote Kowani


I also vote Kowani o/
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1671
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:33 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Doesn't that "as much as possible" run into your opinion on money in politics?

Not in my case. I said "humanly and reasonably possible," I don't think having a system run by megadoners is reasonable. It is just legalized corruption.

What if I were to shift my definition of "reasonable" further south, so to speak? Would that be, in your mind, acceptable?
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5792
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:34 pm

New haven america wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Mine is personal and economic autonomy as much as humanly and reasonably possible. I just have a more anti-corruption attitude to politics, as I know megadoners create a system of cronyism.

That's an oxymoron.

You can't have total economic autonomy while also disallowing politicians from getting funded by megadonors. They're spending and making money how they choose to.

Alright, that is one of my only restrictions on economic autonomy. Sue me for using imperfect language. :p
Last edited by LiberNovusAmericae on Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16750
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:34 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:So who's the OP of LWDT VIII?

I vote Kowani

Noppetty nope nope.


Torrocca wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:I vote Kowani


I also vote Kowani o/

Not happening.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32860
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:35 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
New haven america wrote:That's an oxymoron.

You can't have total economic autonomy while also disallowing politicians from getting funded by megadonors. They're spending and making money how they choose to.

Alright, that is one of my only restrictions on economic autonomy. Sue me for using imperfect language. :p

I will.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Austria-Bohemia-Hungary, Dancing Dragons, Duhon, Ethel mermania, Fartsniffage, Genivaria, Gravlen, Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States, Greater vakolicci haven, Grinning Dragon, Heloin, Hurdergaryp, Lost Memories, Major-Tom, MSN [Bot], Ngelmish, Nysa Hyades, Perchan, Salus Maior, SD_Film Artists, Shrillland, Telconi, The Blaatschapen, The British American Colonies, The East Marches II, The Huskar Social Union, The Isles of the Grey, The New California Republic, Thepeopl, Valrifell, Vassenor, Victorious Decepticons, Washington Resistance Army

Advertisement

Remove ads