LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Freedom allows people to protest against abuse of power. Without a certain amount of freedom, the police can abuse you or kill you without consequences.

With freedom, people can still abuse you. Happens all the time to gay people and blacks here in the states.

Unfortunately. At least with freedom, they can highlight the fact that some people are scumbags and propose solutions.

[Pacomia]

I like freedom. It’s a good thing. I like socialism. It’s a good thing, in small amounts, and with a few drops of free enterprise mixed in. Enter libertarian socialism.

[Cekoviu]

Because freedom is good, and very important. Without freedom, people get hurt.

With freedom, people get hurt.

The scale is different, though, and there are more checks on the hurt that is caused with a freer society.
Consider a website with 499 normal users and one administrator who holds the ability to ban users and modify the website. If that administrator goes rogue, nothing can be done to stop them.
However, if the website has 450 normal users and 50 higher-ranking people who share powers among themselves and can be recalled by the users, a single rogue administrator can be easily dealt with because their power is checked by the users and other administrators. Sure, it takes more time and work to manage this system, but it massively decreases the risk of the website being ruined.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

As much as I’ve tried, I couldn’t bring you over to the left. Sad.

Don't give up hope yet. There's still time.

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

With freedom, people can still abuse you. Happens all the time to gay people and blacks here in the states.

Unfortunately. At least with freedom, they can highlight the fact that some people are scumbags and propose solutions.

Boy golly, I sure am glad I can say, "you're a bitch!" That fixes everything!

[Cekoviu]

Freedom allows people to protest against abuse of power. Without a certain amount of freedom, the police can abuse you or kill you without consequences.

With freedom, people can still abuse you. Happens all the time to gay people and blacks here in the states.

Imagine unironically thinking the States can be used as an example of freedom in government.

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

With freedom, people get hurt.

The scale is different, though, and there are more checks on the hurt that is caused with a freer society.
Consider a website with 499 normal users and one administrator who holds the ability to ban users and modify the website. If that administrator goes rogue, nothing can be done to stop them.
However, if the website has 450 normal users and 50 higher-ranking people who share powers among themselves and can be recalled by the users, a single rogue administrator can be easily dealt with because their power is checked by the users and other administrators. Sure, it takes more time and work to manage this system, but it massively decreases the risk of the website being ruined.

Why not have a hierarchy involving several layers of administration? Dictatorship and democracy are not the only options.

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

With freedom, people can still abuse you. Happens all the time to gay people and blacks here in the states.

Imagine unironically thinking the States can be used as an example of freedom in government.

Then what is an example?

[Kowani]

As much as I’ve tried, I couldn’t bring you over to the left. Sad.

Don't give up hope yet. There's still time.

Oh?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

With freedom, people can still abuse you. Happens all the time to gay people and blacks here in the states.

Imagine unironically thinking the States can be used as an example of freedom in government.

It's not even freedom in it's ideal state for me either.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Unfortunately. At least with freedom, they can highlight the fact that some people are scumbags and propose solutions.

Boy golly, I sure am glad I can say, "you're a bitch!" That fixes everything!

You failed to notice the "propose solutions" part of my post.

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

Imagine unironically thinking the States can be used as an example of freedom in government.

It's not even freedom in it's ideal state for me either.

My point exactly. Libertarians would usually repeal restrictions against individual action, but there's no easy transition between what the individual wants and what society wants. Unchecked individualism has cost the West its happiness.

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

Boy golly, I sure am glad I can say, "you're a bitch!" That fixes everything!

You failed to notice the "propose solutions" part of my post.

Do those solutions ever actually get passed, though?

[Cappuccina]

I think the horseshoe has activated!

Hmm…Nah.

How did you get from Orwell to Rand?

I'm still a libertarian, but I'd say I'm no longer a right-wing libertarian. I'm more of a centrist economically these days.

As much as I’ve tried, I couldn’t bring you over to the left. Sad.

Aww...oh well, a brief moment of agreement is pleasant every now and then nonetheless.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Don't give up hope yet. There's still time.

Oh?

Don't get your hopes up though, I'm rather stubborn.

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

Oh?

Don't get your hopes up though, I'm rather stubborn.

Join third positionist gang instead.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

It's not even freedom in it's ideal state for me either.

My point exactly. Libertarians would usually repeal restrictions against individual action, but there's no easy transition between what the individual wants and what society wants. Unchecked individualism has cost the West its happiness.

From where I'm standing "unchecked individualism" (not accurate btw) has ushered in the greatest period of prosperity humanity has achieved.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Don't get your hopes up though, I'm rather stubborn.

Join third positionist gang instead.

That would kind of be a political 180 for me, that's not a very realistic prospect tbh.

[Kowani]

Oh?

Don't get your hopes up though, I'm rather stubborn.

Trust me, you can’t be worse than my little brother.

Hmm…Nah.




As much as I’ve tried, I couldn’t bring you over to the left. Sad.

Aww...oh well, a brief moment of agreement is pleasant every now and then nonetheless.

It is. It was moreso the concept of the “horseshoe” that I rejected, more than anything else.

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

My point exactly. Libertarians would usually repeal restrictions against individual action, but there's no easy transition between what the individual wants and what society wants. Unchecked individualism has cost the West its happiness.

From where I'm standing "unchecked individualism" (not accurate btw) has ushered in the greatest period of prosperity humanity has achieved.

At the cost of the environment, happiness, great wars, and colonialism. Let's not pretend this is all sunshine and rainbows.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

You failed to notice the "propose solutions" part of my post.

Do those solutions ever actually get passed, though?

Sometimes. We're in an era where our government is corrupt, so probably not as much today. Our government needs reform, and our system needs to be repaired, but that is no reason to give up on freedom.

[Pacomia]

Oh?

Don't get your hopes up though, I'm rather stubborn.

Join us, brother. It’s better here.

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

Do those solutions ever actually get passed, though?

Sometimes. We're in an era where our government is corrupt, so probably not as much today. Our government needs reform, and our system needs to be repaired, but that is no reason to give up on freedom.

Freedom is the reason the government is corrupt. You can't really legislate anti-corruption, as much as you'd like to be able to.

[Pacomia]

Aww...oh well, a brief moment of agreement is pleasant every now and then nonetheless.

It is. It was moreso the concept of the “horseshoe” that I rejected, more than anything else.

Burn the fence down?

[Hanafuridake]

How were you all introduced to Left Wing ideology?

Figures like Stalin and Pol Pot were always fascinating to me, and I read a little from Proudhon and Marx. I'm not a left-winger though, and leftism isn't that appealing to me.