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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11636
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:50 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Alternatively you might just have a shitty job. A buddy of mine is a single guy making $32 an hour and he has no complaints.

You all are both making worthless anecdotal arguments, some people have shit jobs they hate, some have great jobs they like...mix it up and vise versa.

This argument won't go anywhere if there's no way to gauge peoples' general disposition in regards to the prevailing economic system (i.e Capitalism).
you had a perfect opportunity to shorten that to y'all
why did you not do so
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

User avatar
Cappuccina
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1896
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:51 am

Kubra wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:You all are both making worthless anecdotal arguments, some people have shit jobs they hate, some have great jobs they like...mix it up and vise versa.

This argument won't go anywhere if there's no way to gauge peoples' general disposition in regards to the prevailing economic system (i.e Capitalism).
you had a perfect opportunity to shorten that to y'all
why did you not do so

I surprisingly autocorrect reversed it, I actually did write "y'all". :p
Obligatory Pronouns so you don't oppress me with misgendering: her/she....yay
##################
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.46


D'Islami Žumhuria Kapušinu
ریسلامی ژومحوریا کاپوشینو
~Ni karže a d'Ala!~

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Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15322
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:52 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Alternatively you might just have a shitty job. A buddy of mine is a single guy making $32 an hour and he has no complaints.

You all are both making worthless anecdotal arguments, some people have shit jobs they hate, some have great jobs they like...mix it up and vise versa.

This argument won't go anywhere if there's no way to gauge peoples' general disposition in regards to the prevailing economic system (i.e Capitalism).


Kowani wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Alternatively you might just have a shitty job. A buddy of mine is a single guy making $32 an hour and he has no complaints.

Stats say it’s about evenly split.

But as Torra points out, financial satisfaction is low.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11636
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:52 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Kubra wrote: you had a perfect opportunity to shorten that to y'all
why did you not do so

I surprisingly autocorrect reversed it, I actually did write "y'all". :p
as long as we're clear.
carry on, citizen.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25405
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:54 am

Kowani wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:You all are both making worthless anecdotal arguments, some people have shit jobs they hate, some have great jobs they like...mix it up and vise versa.

This argument won't go anywhere if there's no way to gauge peoples' general disposition in regards to the prevailing economic system (i.e Capitalism).


Kowani wrote:Stats say it’s about evenly split.

But as Torra points out, financial satisfaction is low.


And if we apply that financial dissatisfaction to the macro scale, where 80% of the world subsists on less than $10 a day, then shit's probably a whole lot worse than that Pew article indicates.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41484
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:55 am

Torrocca wrote:
Kowani wrote:

But as Torra points out, financial satisfaction is low.


And if we apply that financial dissatisfaction to the macro scale, where 80% of the world subsists on less than $10 a day, then shit's probably a whole lot worse than that Pew article indicates.


Tbf 80% of the world also has drastically lower costs of living than we do.

User avatar
Cappuccina
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1896
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:55 am

Kowani wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:You all are both making worthless anecdotal arguments, some people have shit jobs they hate, some have great jobs they like...mix it up and vise versa.

This argument won't go anywhere if there's no way to gauge peoples' general disposition in regards to the prevailing economic system (i.e Capitalism).


Kowani wrote:Stats say it’s about evenly split.

But as Torra points out, financial satisfaction is low.

Thanks for the link, btw.

But the low financial satisfaction can also be a result of people living beyond their means, frivolity with money unfortunately rather common.
Obligatory Pronouns so you don't oppress me with misgendering: her/she....yay
##################
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.46


D'Islami Žumhuria Kapušinu
ریسلامی ژومحوریا کاپوشینو
~Ni karže a d'Ala!~

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15322
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:56 am

Torrocca wrote:
Kowani wrote:

But as Torra points out, financial satisfaction is low.


And if we apply that financial dissatisfaction to the macro scale, where 80% of the world subsists on less than $10 a day, then shit's probably a whole lot worse than that Pew article indicates.

Hey, that’s just for the US. Things are different in other countries.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11636
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:02 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
And if we apply that financial dissatisfaction to the macro scale, where 80% of the world subsists on less than $10 a day, then shit's probably a whole lot worse than that Pew article indicates.


Tbf 80% of the world also has drastically lower costs of living than we do.
sure, insofar as they lack creature comforts we take for granted. For instance, air conditioning; shits expensive, both to buy and maintain.
I mean, It's not expensive for me, at all, but other people, like the family back in the old country.

Do you know how much air conditioning matters, or are you some northern germanic barbarian?
Last edited by Kubra on Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25405
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:03 am

Kowani wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
And if we apply that financial dissatisfaction to the macro scale, where 80% of the world subsists on less than $10 a day, then shit's probably a whole lot worse than that Pew article indicates.

Hey, that’s just for the US. Things are different in other countries.


Obviously, but still. The US is one of the most developed countries in the world, so it's not hard to imagine that conditions are worse elsewhere, or better in the cases of those few countries that don't treat their workers as little more than cattle.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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Nakena
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5123
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:03 am

Torrocca wrote:
Kowani wrote:Hey, that’s just for the US. Things are different in other countries.


Obviously, but still. The US is one of the most developed countries in the world, so it's not hard to imagine that conditions are worse elsewhere, or better in the cases of those few countries that don't treat their workers as little more than cattle.


Theres always Bangladesh and Cambodia at the lower end of the order of generalized shitty and grittyness.
Last edited by Nakena on Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Your friendly neighbourhood barista and genderqueer degenerate bohemian
Female or they/them pronoun preferred but not required
Third Positionist Gang

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Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41484
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:05 am

Kubra wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Tbf 80% of the world also has drastically lower costs of living than we do.
sure, insofar as they lack creature comforts we take for granted. For instance, air conditioning; shits expensive, both to buy and maintain.
I mean, It's not expensive for me, at all, but other people, like the family back in the old country.

Do you know how much air conditioning matters, or are you some northern germanic barbarian?


I'm a Celtic barbarian thank you very much :p

We do have AC but we live in WA so it's not super necessary most of the time so it doesn't break the bank.

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25405
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:05 am

In semi-unrelated news, shit like this continues to give me a helluva lot of hope. Just look at how genuinely enthusiastic and supportive these people are of Bernie. It's amazing.
Last edited by Torrocca on Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11636
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:09 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Kubra wrote: sure, insofar as they lack creature comforts we take for granted. For instance, air conditioning; shits expensive, both to buy and maintain.
I mean, It's not expensive for me, at all, but other people, like the family back in the old country.

Do you know how much air conditioning matters, or are you some northern germanic barbarian?


I'm a Celtic barbarian thank you very much :p

We do have AC but we live in WA so it's not super necessary most of the time so it doesn't break the bank.
WA? Oh yeah, northern barbarian. Ya don't know struggle, bruv.
Jokes aside, you see what i'm getting at. $10 a day just doesn't buy what we got, and what we got is super nice. We can just have AC for the couple warm months and let it rot the rest of em.
Like yo places in the world have separate air-conditioned transit that people pay extra for and let me tell ya the extra 50 cents is definitely worth it
Last edited by Kubra on Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

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Cappuccina
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1896
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:09 am

Torrocca wrote:
Kowani wrote:Hey, that’s just for the US. Things are different in other countries.


Obviously, but still. The US is one of the most developed countries in the world, so it's not hard to imagine that conditions are worse elsewhere, or better in the cases of those few countries that don't treat their workers as little more than cattle.

Hyperbole to the max comrade!!!

Torrocca wrote:In semi-unrelated news, shit like this continues to give me a helluva lot of hope. Just look at how genuinely enthusiastic and supportive these people are of Bernie. It's amazing.


Bernie is shit, not even a real socialist. :roll:
Obligatory Pronouns so you don't oppress me with misgendering: her/she....yay
##################
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.46


D'Islami Žumhuria Kapušinu
ریسلامی ژومحوریا کاپوشینو
~Ni karže a d'Ala!~

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25405
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:11 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Torrocca wrote:In semi-unrelated news, shit like this continues to give me a helluva lot of hope. Just look at how genuinely enthusiastic and supportive these people are of Bernie. It's amazing.


Bernie is shit, not even a real socialist. :roll:


Bernie's literally America's best option at getting things fixed for the better right now. That's far more important than holding the dude up to overly-stringent, precise standards.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11636
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:11 am

Torrocca wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:
Bernie is shit, not even a real socialist. :roll:


Bernie's literally America's best option at getting things fixed for the better right now. That's far more important than holding the dude up to overly-stringent, precise standards.
neither bernie or trump but international socialism
cmon man shoot for the stars, you'll at least hit the moon
Last edited by Kubra on Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41484
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:12 am

Torrocca wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:
Bernie is shit, not even a real socialist. :roll:


Bernie's literally America's best option at getting things fixed for the better right now. That's far more important than holding the dude up to overly-stringent, precise standards.


Realistically Bernie wouldn't be able to do much of anything.

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25405
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:14 am

Kubra wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Bernie's literally America's best option at getting things fixed for the better right now. That's far more important than holding the dude up to overly-stringent, precise standards.
neither bernie or trump but international socialism
cmon man shoot for the stars, you'll at least hit the moon


We're not gonna have a very good time shooting for la internationale if we don't have positive reinforcers and role models to motivate the masses into genuine leftism tbqh.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11636
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:17 am

Torrocca wrote:
Kubra wrote: neither bernie or trump but international socialism
cmon man shoot for the stars, you'll at least hit the moon


We're not gonna have a very good time shooting for la internationale if we don't have positive reinforcers and role models to motivate the masses into genuine leftism tbqh.
ah yes, the ol' "we need strong social democracy so we can shit on social democracy"
I may sound snide, but I'm really not, it's really worthwhile sentiment. I mean that's truly how the big radical parties of the 20th century got going.
Still tho someones gotta carry the banner of radical radicalism, no? If not us, who?
Last edited by Kubra on Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

User avatar
Cappuccina
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1896
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:17 am

Torrocca wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:
Bernie is shit, not even a real socialist. :roll:


Bernie's literally America's best option at getting things fixed for the better right now. That's far more important than holding the dude up to overly-stringent, precise standards.

All we'd get is another idiot in the white house, no one that gets to the big time in Washington is going to actually be worth their beans in office. People are literally wasting effort and stressing out over elections that don't make a single iota of difference from one candidate to the next.
Obligatory Pronouns so you don't oppress me with misgendering: her/she....yay
##################
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.46


D'Islami Žumhuria Kapušinu
ریسلامی ژومحوریا کاپوشینو
~Ni karže a d'Ala!~

User avatar
Page
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10189
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:21 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Bernie's literally America's best option at getting things fixed for the better right now. That's far more important than holding the dude up to overly-stringent, precise standards.

All we'd get is another idiot in the white house, no one that gets to the big time in Washington is going to actually be worth their beans in office. People are literally wasting effort and stressing out over elections that don't make a single iota of difference from one candidate to the next.


Material conditions matter. Electing Bernie Sanders President would result in better material conditions for the people.
I am a libertarian socialist.
I am ungovernable.
I owe no allegiance to any state.
I am bound to my conscience, not to the law.
I stand for liberty, justice, and peace.

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25405
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:21 am

Kubra wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
We're not gonna have a very good time shooting for la internationale if we don't have positive reinforcers and role models to motivate the masses into genuine leftism tbqh.
ah yes, the ol' "we need strong social democracy so we can shit on social democracy"
I may sound snide, but I'm really not, it's really worthwhile sentiment. I mean that's truly how the big radical parties of the 20th century got going.
Still tho someones gotta carry the banner of radical radicalism, no? If not us, who?


IDK about you, but I certainly don't see how we're gonna just magically get enough people on board with the revolution in any near future. Going full accelerationist is just going to needlessly get too many innocent people hurt along the way. Shit hasn't quite hit the destitute, dystopic levels needed to spur the masses into action. This is, right now, the best chance to accomplish something. Maybe it won't be much, or whatever, but it's better than nothing.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Jack Thomas Lang
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1135
Founded: Apr 18, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jack Thomas Lang » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:21 am

Cappuccina wrote:All we'd get is another idiot in the white house, no one that gets to the big time in Washington is going to actually be worth their beans in office. People are literally wasting effort and stressing out over elections that don't make a single iota of difference from one candidate to the next.

What's the alternative? Fantasise over a revolution that's not going to happen?

I know the Nordics are very different to America, but at least they show that it's possible to create meaningful reforms democratically in the face of aristocratic and landowner resistance.
Catholic Distributist
Three Acres and a Cow

"In the race of life, always back self-interest — at least you know it's trying."
Rerum Novarum and Quadragesimo Anno

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41484
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:22 am

Page wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:All we'd get is another idiot in the white house, no one that gets to the big time in Washington is going to actually be worth their beans in office. People are literally wasting effort and stressing out over elections that don't make a single iota of difference from one candidate to the next.


Material conditions matter. Electing Bernie Sanders President would result in better material conditions for the people.


Would it really though? How is he going to rally the entire party to his cause? What of the Senate, and it likely remaining Republican?

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