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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:09 pm

First American Empire wrote:
Nakena wrote:
Theres nothing wrong with 3rd Position Gang either :^)


If you don't like either of those, we SocDems would love to have you. :)

Thank god, somebody with a rational ideology.
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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:10 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
First American Empire wrote:
If you don't like either of those, we SocDems would love to have you. :)

Thank god, somebody with a rational ideology.


Oh no not Rational Ideologies, my one true nemesis.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:13 pm

Jolthig wrote:Any Maoists in here?

Mao's form of communism was detrimental to China, not here.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
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Kubra
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Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:14 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Kubra wrote: So no plaid voters among you lot, then?


Not currently, though if NI+Scotland bugger off we'll probably back independence in order to rejoin the EU and potentially align with the other celtic nations, albeit, with re-Unionist sympathies.
Well not currently, but what about historically?
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

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Jolthig
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:14 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Any Maoists in here?

Mao's form of communism was detrimental to China, not here.

Well of course lol.

Even the CPC acknowledged its harm despite not admitting it is completely bad for China as they still in theory, ascribe to it.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:19 pm

Kubra wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Not currently, though if NI+Scotland bugger off we'll probably back independence in order to rejoin the EU and potentially align with the other celtic nations, albeit, with re-Unionist sympathies.
Well not currently, but what about historically?


I'm not sure. Welsh Nationalism is a relatively recent phenomanae, 19th century, and has never been mainstream. Primarily the Welsh were concerned with disestablishment of the Church of England.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_nat ... th_century
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Nakena
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Founded: May 06, 2017
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Postby Nakena » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:26 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
First American Empire wrote:
If you don't like either of those, we SocDems would love to have you. :)

Thank god, somebody with a rational ideology.


Classic SocDem had its merit. Then came Tony Blair and Gerhard Schroeder. After them smoothe brigades took over. And then came pasokification. And then they werent anymore.

To be honest though I am close to classic socdem on a number of issues.
Last edited by Nakena on Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cekoviu
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Founded: Oct 18, 2017
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Postby Cekoviu » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:28 pm

Nakena wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Thank god, somebody with a rational ideology.


Classic SocDem had its merit. Then came Tony Blair and Gerhard Schroeder. After them smoothe brigades took over. And then came pasokification. And then they werent anymore.

To be honest though I am close to classic socdem on a number of issues.

Tony Blair is a gud boi tho
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

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Nakena
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Founded: May 06, 2017
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Postby Nakena » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:30 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Nakena wrote:
Classic SocDem had its merit. Then came Tony Blair and Gerhard Schroeder. After them smoothe brigades took over. And then came pasokification. And then they werent anymore.

To be honest though I am close to classic socdem on a number of issues.

Tony Blair is a gud boi tho


He heralded the trend that ultimatively killed social democracy in Europe.

Also say that in the UK thread. I dare you. :twisted:
Last edited by Nakena on Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kubra
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Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:32 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Kubra wrote: Well not currently, but what about historically?


I'm not sure. Welsh Nationalism is a relatively recent phenomanae, 19th century, and has never been mainstream. Primarily the Welsh were concerned with disestablishment of the Church of England.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_nat ... th_century
And? You had ancestors in the 19th century, no?
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

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Cekoviu
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Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:44 pm

Nakena wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Tony Blair is a gud boi tho


He heralded the trend that ultimatively killed social democracy in Europe.

Also say that in the UK thread. I dare you. :twisted:

>killed social democracy in Europe
>Labour Party has the second largest number of seats in the UK, SPD in Germany is second by overall votes and in the ruling coalition, PSOE is in power in Spain, Löfvén is still in power in Sweden (albeit with declining S votes), SDP in Finland is the largest party in their parliament...
lolk
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

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Hanafuridake
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Posts: 5532
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
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Postby Hanafuridake » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:57 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
I think there was one guy who held to Maoism a few years back but I don't know of any current followers of the ideology.

I have a soft spot and interest for certain facets of Maoist thought ie the Peoples War and such things but little more beyond that.

What do you think of the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution?


When your country was the greatest civilization on the planet but you decide to destroy all that because some German dude with a beard said class war was more important.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:58 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:
Jolthig wrote:What do you think of the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution?


When your country was the greatest civilization on the planet but you decide to destroy all that because some German dude with a beard said class war was more important.

Mondays, am I right?
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

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Kubra
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Posts: 17219
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:00 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:
Jolthig wrote:What do you think of the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution?


When your country was the greatest civilization on the planet but you decide to destroy all that because some German dude with a beard said class war was more important.
It could hardly have been called the greatest in the 20th century.

And in any case, the long march was a very formative event for the character of the CPC, and weeeeelll not really in a good way.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

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The South Falls
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Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
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Postby The South Falls » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:06 pm

Jolthig wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Mao's form of communism was detrimental to China, not here.

Well of course lol.

Even the CPC acknowledged its harm despite not admitting it is completely bad for China as they still in theory, ascribe to it.

they're absolutely murderous dishonest fucks.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58543
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:22 pm

Kubra wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
I'm not sure. Welsh Nationalism is a relatively recent phenomanae, 19th century, and has never been mainstream. Primarily the Welsh were concerned with disestablishment of the Church of England.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_nat ... th_century
And? You had ancestors in the 19th century, no?


It's very unlikely they were Welsh nationalists in the sense of Plaid Cymru, almost nobody was, but Welsh Nationalism in the sense i'm discussing was still prevalent.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Kubra
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Posts: 17219
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:24 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Kubra wrote: And? You had ancestors in the 19th century, no?


It's very unlikely they were Welsh nationalists in the sense of Plaid Cymru, almost nobody was, but Welsh Nationalism in the sense i'm discussing was still prevalent.
So when you say "the majority of the working class is nationalist", you're going to have to specify, aren't you?
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

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Nakena
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Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
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Postby Nakena » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:38 pm

Kubra wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
It's very unlikely they were Welsh nationalists in the sense of Plaid Cymru, almost nobody was, but Welsh Nationalism in the sense i'm discussing was still prevalent.
So when you say "the majority of the working class is nationalist", you're going to have to specify, aren't you?


They're probably not all into the multicultural mumbo jumbo at the least.
Last edited by Nakena on Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ostroeuropa
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Posts: 58543
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:39 pm

Nakena wrote:
Kubra wrote: So when you say "the majority of the working class is nationalist", you're going to have to specify, aren't you?


They're probably not all into the multicultural mumbo jumbo at the least.


Pretty much this.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Cekoviu
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Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:23 pm

Nakena wrote:
Kubra wrote: So when you say "the majority of the working class is nationalist", you're going to have to specify, aren't you?


They're probably not all into the multicultural mumbo jumbo at the least.

Quite unfortunately.
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

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Bojikami
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Founded: Jul 24, 2012
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Postby Bojikami » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:30 pm

Jolthig wrote:Any Maoists in here?

Just saw this, and I used to be. I'm more of a generic Marxist/communist now.
Be gay, do crime.
23 year old nonbinary trans woman(She/They), also I'm a Marxist-Leninist.
Economic Left/Right: -10.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.33

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Jolthig
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Founded: Aug 31, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:48 pm

Bojikami wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Any Maoists in here?

Just saw this, and I used to be. I'm more of a generic Marxist/communist now.

Ah.

I used to have my own Maoist phase, somewhat when I was 13 xD
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Cekoviu
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Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:07 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Bojikami wrote:Just saw this, and I used to be. I'm more of a generic Marxist/communist now.

Ah.

I used to have my own Maoist phase, somewhat when I was 13 xD

I've never even been vaguely authoritarian, even in my bizarre ideologies phase (I swung the opposite way in the most extreme possible manner).
pro: women's rights
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Nakena
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Founded: May 06, 2017
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Postby Nakena » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:13 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Ah.

I used to have my own Maoist phase, somewhat when I was 13 xD

I've never even been vaguely authoritarian, even in my bizarre ideologies phase (I swung the opposite way in the most extreme possible manner).


oof

I think everyone has been into some weird ideology at some point. My worst "phase" was probably being an authoritarian socialist as edgy teenager. Unless you want to count it as phase when I almost got brainwashed into 21th century National Socialism. That was some different kind of madness though.
Last edited by Nakena on Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bojikami
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Founded: Jul 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Bojikami » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:15 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Ah.

I used to have my own Maoist phase, somewhat when I was 13 xD

I've never even been vaguely authoritarian, even in my bizarre ideologies phase (I swung the opposite way in the most extreme possible manner).

I've gone from Marxist-Leninist, to Full-Blown IS-8 Tank, to Marxist-Leninist-Maoist, to Orthodox Marxist, to someone who doesn't really give a shit on what tendency one identifies with. I'm a Communist. A Marxist. I stand with the working class and all those downtrodden by society. Aside from the initial organizing, the society we create post revolution will be built by the working class. I still have a soft spot for Stalin and Mao tho
Be gay, do crime.
23 year old nonbinary trans woman(She/They), also I'm a Marxist-Leninist.
Economic Left/Right: -10.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.33

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