LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[Torrocca]

Good for you. I disagree with that assertion.

You realize what would have come onto Antifa if that guy were more sucessfull and had managed to kill some ICEd fellows?

Yup.

[First American Empire]

Are you sure? I always thought that if you attack civilians, you're a terrorist, and if you don't, you're not.

If I storm ATF headquarters and try to kill everyone am I not a terrorist because they're not civilians?

It depends on if you're trying to use your murders to scare the civilian population for political purposes. If you're killing people at ATF headquarters because you're trying to scare the government reinstating prohibition, you're a terrorist. If you're just killing them for the hell of it, you're not a terrorist, just a normal mass murderer.

[North German Realm]

I mean, it's not the freeing people that's the terrorist act part, it's the means that the guy used for that end.

Well, yeah, obviously, but I still inherently disagree with the notion that it's terrorism.

Consider it fighting for freedom. They're typically the same thing.

I mean, it's not the freeing people that's the terrorist act part, it's the means that the guy used for that end.

I can think of instances where "guy goes violent to save people" is not an act of terror.

Well yes. Terrorism has a specific definition that it's supposed to spark terror in a demographic for an ideological means.

[Nakena]

You realize what would have come onto Antifa if that guy were more sucessfull and had managed to kill some ICEd fellows?

Yup.

Party Van Time for Antifa and Friends. :^)

[Duhon]

Good for you. I disagree with that assertion.

You realize what would have come onto Antifa if that guy were more sucessfull and had managed to kill some ICEd fellows?

That they would've stormed other camps in his wake? I doubt they'd put their balls where their rhetoric is, but if they actually do it and free a few people I'd actually applaud them... to the extent that they treated the symptoms, that is.

[North German Realm]

If I storm ATF headquarters and try to kill everyone am I not a terrorist because they're not civilians?

It depends on if you're trying to use your murders to scare the civilian population for political purposes. If you're killing people at ATF headquarters because you're trying to scare the government reinstating prohibition, you're a terrorist. If you're just killing them for the hell of it, you're not a terrorist, just a normal mass murderer.

Well yeah, but in this case, people who support ICE (and they exist) are also civilians and they get scared when someone does it.

[Torrocca]

Yup.

Party Van Time for Antifa and Friends. :^)

If we must suffer so that tyranny cannot reign any longer, then so be it.

Well, yeah, obviously, but I still inherently disagree with the notion that it's terrorism.

Consider it fighting for freedom. They're typically the same thing.

I've not thought of it as anything less, so far.

[Caracasus]

You realize what would have come onto Antifa if that guy were more sucessfull and had managed to kill some ICEd fellows?

That they would've stormed other camps in his wake? I doubt they'd put their balls where their rhetoric is, but if they actually do it and free a few people I'd actually applaud them... to the extent that they treated the symptoms, that is.

Well yeah, I mean at the point where the state is putting up concentration camps where they deliberately house detainees in cruel and inadequate situations I think it probably is time to consider less than legal methods.

Besides, we're living in an age where the label "terrorism" has finally lost a lot of its actual impact. It was never a particularly good or useful label to begin with, now? It's completely worthless as a category.

[Nakena]

You realize what would have come onto Antifa if that guy were more sucessfull and had managed to kill some ICEd fellows?

That they would've stormed other camps in his wake? I doubt they'd put their balls where their rhetoric is, but if they actually do it and free a few people I'd actually applaud them... to the extent that they treated the symptoms, that is.

Molotov cocktails are more likely than not to set the entire site ablaze.

[First American Empire]

It depends on if you're trying to use your murders to scare the civilian population for political purposes. If you're killing people at ATF headquarters because you're trying to scare the government reinstating prohibition, you're a terrorist. If you're just killing them for the hell of it, you're not a terrorist, just a normal mass murderer.

Well yeah, but in this case, people who support ICE (and they exist) are also civilians and they get scared when someone does it.

Yes, but that's an unintended side effect, not the primary motive. When determining whether something is terrorism or not, motive matters a lot.

I really have to go to sleep now; it's 1:19 AM in my time zone. WRA and any other American posters should also log off for the night and get some sleep too. We can all argue about the definition of terrorism more tomorrow.

[Torrocca]

That they would've stormed other camps in his wake? I doubt they'd put their balls where their rhetoric is, but if they actually do it and free a few people I'd actually applaud them... to the extent that they treated the symptoms, that is.

Molotov cocktails are more likely than not to set the entire site ablaze.

That's one thing I can definitely disagree on regarding Spronson's acts, tbqh. Bringing molotovs was a fucking stupid idea.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Well yeah, but in this case, people who support ICE (and they exist) are also civilians and they get scared when someone does it.

Yes, but that's an unintended side effect, not the primary motive. When determining whether something is terrorism or not, motive matters a lot.

I really have to go to sleep now; it's 1:19 AM in my time zone. WRA and any other American posters should also log off for the night and get some sleep too. We can all argue about the definition of terrorism more tomorrow.

My wonky sleep schedule laughs at you, I'm probably not gonna be in bed until 4 or 5

[Duhon]

That they would've stormed other camps in his wake? I doubt they'd put their balls where their rhetoric is, but if they actually do it and free a few people I'd actually applaud them... to the extent that they treated the symptoms, that is.

Molotov cocktails are more likely than not to set the entire site ablaze.

Depends on the facility, though given WPA's (deleted, but now partially restored) post about the attacker's mindset, I'm now inclined to think he wouldn't have cared for the people held captive... which is a fucking shame.

[Washington Resistance Army]

That they would've stormed other camps in his wake? I doubt they'd put their balls where their rhetoric is, but if they actually do it and free a few people I'd actually applaud them... to the extent that they treated the symptoms, that is.

Molotov cocktails are more likely than not to set the entire site ablaze.

Tis worth noting that, iirc, his family has said he was suicidal and they believe this was his surefire (no pun intended) way of doing suicide by cop, not a valiant freedom fighter action. If true he probably wasn't actually trying to burn the place to the ground.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Are you sure? I always thought that if you attack civilians, you're a terrorist, and if you don't, you're not.

If I storm ATF headquarters and try to kill everyone am I not a terrorist because they're not civilians?

They kind of are civilians. They may be government workers, but they're not leaders or soldiers.

[Washington Resistance Army]

If I storm ATF headquarters and try to kill everyone am I not a terrorist because they're not civilians?

They kind of are civilians. They may be government workers, but they're not leaders or soldiers.

Clearly you've never seen an IOI when they encounter a dog.

[Caracasus]

Molotov cocktails are more likely than not to set the entire site ablaze.

Tis worth noting that, iirc, his family has said he was suicidal and they believe this was his surefire (no pun intended) way of doing suicide by cop, not a valiant freedom fighter action. If true he probably wasn't actually trying to burn the place to the ground.

Yeah. The news stories kind of suggest that, and having read his manifesto it reads like someone who was looking for a way out and decided to go down doing something he believed in.

I believe his plan was to burn the buses that were rounding people up.

[Duhon]

A fucking shame.

If you're gonna do the right thing, fucking plan for every possible contingency, not go full Percy (or is it Perry? I dunno).

[Torrocca]

To segue into a more light-hearted topic, I absolutely love this song.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Sure, but other people do see it as a terrorist act, including more than a few of us locals. One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.

Good for you. I disagree with that assertion.

As a left anarchist, how can you disagree with it?

[Ostroeuropa]

Facebook actually made a shitload of money from a spike in investments after news that it would be fined 5 billion dollars hit.

Facebook shares actually jumped on the news, rising 1% on Friday to the highest they've been in the past year.

Tfw when your fines are so blatantly shit that issueing them is a government declaring a company is basically above the law and the company *gains* money.

Zuckerberg himself, just him, made a billion dollars from the news.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Facebook actually made a shitload of money from a spike in investments after news that it would be fined 5 billion dollars hit.

Facebook shares actually jumped on the news, rising 1% on Friday to the highest they've been in the past year.

Tfw when your fines are so blatantly shit that issueing them is a government declaring a company is basically above the law and the company *gains* money.

Zuckerberg himself, just him, made a billion dollars from the news.

Why would investments spike?

[Ostroeuropa]

Facebook actually made a shitload of money from a spike in investments after news that it would be fined 5 billion dollars hit.

Facebook shares actually jumped on the news, rising 1% on Friday to the highest they've been in the past year.

Tfw when your fines are so blatantly shit that issueing them is a government declaring a company is basically above the law and the company *gains* money.

Zuckerberg himself, just him, made a billion dollars from the news.

Why would investments spike?

Because facebook was caught violating peoples rights and was issued a fine so petty in comparison to its income that it became clear facebook was above the law.

[Nakena]

Why would investments spike?

Because facebook was caught violating peoples rights and was issued a fine so petty in comparison to its income that it became clear facebook was above the law.

Now Facebook is going to introduce its own currency "Libra" which causes already widespread concerns among the political and financial establishment. I am enjoying this upcoming fight.

[Duhon]

Facebook actually made a shitload of money from a spike in investments after news that it would be fined 5 billion dollars hit.

Facebook shares actually jumped on the news, rising 1% on Friday to the highest they've been in the past year.

Tfw when your fines are so blatantly shit that issueing them is a government declaring a company is basically above the law and the company *gains* money.

Zuckerberg himself, just him, made a billion dollars from the news.

Basically, nothing but full dismantling will work when you're big enough to ignore five fucking billion dollars in fines.